Rlyss

Hi everyone.

Has anyone else noticed that there is an enormous double standard between drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes?

Most of my friends drink. And when I say drink, I mean if we have a night out at a bar, or a party, many of them will have a few beers, have a good night, and then think nothing of it.

I drink like that. Every now and then I'll have a beer if I've finished a heavy assignment, or I'm having a BBQ, or if I'm at a bar. Nobody sees any problem in that, do they?

But I also smoke. I'll have a cigarette if it's a nice day outside, if I'm at a bar, or if I particularly feel like one. So perhaps on average I have two or three per cigarettes per week.

I don't know how to get around accusations of denial about being addicted. Many of my friends say the scriped 'You're in denial!" when I say that I'm not addicted, and that I can quit any time I want. The fact is that I regularly go weeks without even <i>thinking</i> of a cigarette, and the thought is not constantly on my mind. Occasionally I'll have one if the situation is right. And occasionally I'll have a drink if the time is right.

I suppose here I'll have to say the cliche 'I'm not addicted, I can quit any time I want, but I don't want to right now.'

But many of my friends think this is not good enough. They drink alcohol, and nobody sees that as an addiction. Yet, as soon as me, or a friend, lights up a cigarette, it's suddenly an awful thing, and accusations of addiction fly.

After this rant here, has anyone else noticed any form of double standard between drinking alcohol at a bar, and having a cigarette at a bar? Why is drinking seen as socially acceptable, yet smoking seen as either 'you <i>never</i> smoke', or 'you're addicted', and nothing in between?

Has anyone got any thoughts on this?

txlovely

I think the issue is that when one drinks, one theoretically only does harm to oneself (unless of course he gets behind the wheel of a car or smacks someone, which would really involve a whole other thread).

When one smokes, one imposes his deadly addiction/habit/etc. upon the health of others, including but not limited to second-hand smoke and the shortening of the smoker's lifespan, which in turn affects more individuals than just the smoker himself.

There are many arguments related to both sides, but I'm speaking generally here.

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BoCo

I agree with txlovely. In the past, although I never drank, I was always around people who did and it never bothered me at all. But as soon as some jackass lit up a cigarette, my lungs started to hurt and I either left or threatened him/them to put it out.

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spived2

I see that double standard as well. Next time you go to the bar, tell your friends the same thing they tell you about smoking and see if they don't drink that night.

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tim2shady

i also see it as a double standard, smoking as little as you do i don't see an argument for second hand smoke being harmful to your friends, blah blah blah....btw, same could be said of a sick friend, do you tell them to leave b/c you might catch their cold?

bigger double standard.....cigs are one of the most harmful "drugs" known to man, however they are legal. Why not the just tax the shit out of marijuana????

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Aletheia

If they are sick, they should at least warn you. If they are REALLY sick, then yes they shouldn't be around.

MSD

I somke cigars, one very few weeks. People look at it the same way as your friends look at alcohol. You may not be addicted, but cigarettes are quite a bit more harmful than alcohol. Plus, until you throw up, drinking doesn't make you smell bad.

agball

I agree that there is a double standard, but being a 1/2 pack a day addicted smoker I can sympathize with you. I have many friends who smoke like you. They enjoy a smoke here & there, but are not addicted. As long as, you intake is not increase, I would venture to guess that you could stop whenever you want. I have always had respect of non-smokers & only smoke in the outdoors. Althouth, living in NY you cant smoke in Bars or resturants anymore anyway.

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World's King

Smoking kills you.

Drinking kills you.

You get the idea.



And on that note... Light up a cigarette and pour yourself a Guinness. Don't let what your friends say bother you. Most people that are addicted to something downplay their addiction by comparing it to someone else's addiction. They give you shit for smoking cause they can't stop drinking.

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Evil Milkman

The government would if they could. Marijuana is much, much easier to grow than tobacco, and alcohol is much more difficult to process (or so I've heard and read), so controlling the non-taxable marijuana (i.e. the illegal imports now) would be next to impossible to do.

And to dorito2's opening post: It is essentially a double-standard, and they probably are trying to hide their drinking habit by placing attention on your occassional smoke. Don't listen to 'em. Also, don't get addicted to smoking.

sixate

There's a huge double standard with booze and cigs. Hell, I didn't drink for 2 years, and I've never smoked, but the past few weekends I've been drinking a little when I go out(girls get you to do some dumb things). As much as I hate to say it I like the taste of alcohol, always have. Nothing like a cold glass of Guinness and a shot of Jägermeister. I'll still never do another drug, and I don't try to justify my drinking by saying it's under control. I drink a little socially when I go out right now, and poison myself. There's nothing good about it other than the taste.

I hate when people smoke around me so bad that when it happens it's all I can do to not punch someone in the face. I can't stand it. The smoke takes my breathe away and chokes me like nothing else can. I've been in countless arguments with smokers, and a few shoving matches.

I'm sure some people around here will call me a hypocrite because of how I've talked about booze and other drugs around here in the past, and I'll agree. Fuck it. I don't really care.

rsl12

If you go all night to a club in New York, your clothes smell like shit the next day.

If you go all night to a club in Los Angeles, where you're not allowed to smoke, you're clothes end up smelling like the perfume of the girls you were dancing with.

I prefer dancing in Los Angeles

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jay-g

It is very rare, but there are "casual" smokers. I used to smoke, and for me, it was i smoked(like pack every other day) or i didnt. It was never like, "oh i'll just have one here or there". I was addicted. And smoking will kill you alot faster than drinking will. Also, just about everyone, has drank or drinks socially. Overall, they both suck. But smoking, fuck me, that shit is something else. Its like you want to quit, but you cant. Whats that all about? Forget mind over matter, how about cig's have some crazy chemicals making you feen like a crack whore. Thats not even right, and they sell the shit and profit from it.

kutulu

Alcohol is much worse for people.
How many people die because they smoked too much one night?
How many people beat their families because they smoked too much?
How many people die because they got behind the wheel after smoking?
How many people lost their jobs because they smoke too much?

See where I'm going?

Personally, I think 2nd hand smoke is the most overrated risk ever put on the public. Consider the source of the studies that get quoted. Most of them are from the American Cancer Society. They are not independant studies.

What's really amusing is that people bitch and bitch about how there are too many taxes. When was the last time you saw a smoking tax lose? People hate taxes but have no problem taxing someone else. Fucking hypocrites.

The_wall

for me I want to quit smoking but I don't at teh same time. I know that shit is killing me slowly, but I love the relaxation and taste that a smoke gives me.

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rsl12

how many people want to quit smoking, but can't?

how many people want to quit drinking, but can't?

compare the two numbers. one is much greater than the other.

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ladyadmin

I don't mean to nitpick, it sounds like you are trying to blame girls for your drinking habits? Or did I misinterpret what you were saying?

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sixate

I'm not blaming anyone for anything that I do. Nobody is forcing anything down my throat. All I'm saying is I wouldn't be drinking if I wasn't dating someone who hangs out a bars with friends. It's just an excuse for me to start drinking again, but it isn't her fault. I could easily drink water because I have in the past, but for now I'd rather have a few beers.

Bleed Me Dry

Your friends that smoke probably cannot fathom a place between "not addicted" and "addicted" simply because they've never experienced or thought about it. For most it's a black and white issue. You seem to be an exception that lives in the gray area.

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Hanabal

the thing is, smoking is stupid.

why would anyone smoke if they werent addicted.
it kills you and everyone around you.

it tastes like tar, which i cant see how anyone will like that, makes you cough, even if your not coughing when you smoke, the chances of coughing at all times skyrockets, and you cant say that you like to cough. makes your clothes stink, a lot of people wont approach you, especially good looking girls, because they dont want to stink. your kisses taste like shit. everything you eat or drink tastes far worse after you have smoked,

i dont care if smokers think its ok if they smoke outside, its not. i can still smell and taste it when i walk past.

its one of the more expensive habits, around a dollar a minute. smokers leave their butts everywhere, which creates a fuck load of litter.

your chances of numerous types of cancer increase exponentially every time you smoke. and everybody around you as well.

your eyesight gets fucked, you develop allergies.

and even if you are not addicted, there is always the risk of becomming addicted.

going to night clubs is something that i used to enjoy, but i got sick of all my good clothes getting ruined because of smokers so i stopped, and ill wait till it becomes illegal to smoke in bars.

many cafes have outdoor seating, so people can have a nice meal in the sun, but its not actually like that, because people see it as an excuse to smoke while they eat, which ruins it for everyone else, so they sit inside, but then the smoke drifts inside and destroys the atmosphere of the whole place.

it destroys the value of your house if you smoke indoors, and you car. and many places dont accept smokers as tenants, so your options are reduced.

and all for what? what benefits do you get out of smoking.

and do i think there is a double standard? yes.

drinking should be treated the same as smoking. its a drug. addictive, and deadly. do i think the world would be a better place without smokers. by many orders of magnitude.

do i think the world would be a better place without alcohol. yes. there would be less violence, rape. murder. car accidents. unwanted babies.

sure you feel good when you drink, but its all phycological, just train yourself to feel the same all the time, ive done it. i now feel alive all day long, without the side effects.

sure you do stuff you wouldnt without alcohol. but if you did something while smashed, and it was great, why didnt you do it while sober, were you too chicken, you need a drug to get you to do fun stuff, thats weak, and you are weak.

sorry if its too long. but its how i feel

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Rlyss

I recognize all the dangers and the ill-effects of smoking, I think everybody does by now. Non-smokers think cigarettes taste like awful tar, smokers don't think they do. Arguments that they taste bad don't really work on smokers, because, like the other thread about the hot girl, it's a matter of opinion. I guess for every argument one person has against smoking, the smoker has one for it, or against alcohol.

As for smoking bringing down the value of my car and house, and affecting my family etc, for someone like myself (in the 'gray' area?) it doesn't apply. I don't smoke in a house, or in a car, and I'll only smoke in bars where it's clear that it's a 'smoking' bar, and other people are smoking too.

I can easily see how people can get addicted to cigarettes, but since I've been smoking like this (once or twice per week on average perhaps) for about four years now, and I've never once felt like I need one more, or that I want one more. But I guess here many people might say 'Ah, classic symptoms of denial!'.

I think to many non-smokers all the posts here are seen as desperate attempts to justify smoking and/or claim 'I''m the exception'. I just don't quite understand how everyone accepts that a few guys go to a bar and have a few beers on a Friday night, and think nothing of it, but when someone lights up a cigarette the accusations of addiction fly.

flamingdog

Of course a non-smoker isn't going to be able to comprehend why you'd do it other than being addicted, but life's not that simple. People derive pleasure from it, and there are levels of addiction. I know numerous people who smoke for pleasure when they go drinking, or who might have one cigarette per day just to help them relax. Maybe they're addicted to some degree, but whether they are or not is frankly none of your business.

Good looking girls don't approach me anyway, so what the fuck do I care?

Don't you think you're being a bit oversensitive? If you walk past a blocked drain and get a whiff of shit, do you want to ban all bowel movements? Your argument would make sense if we lived in a world where everyone gets to breathe clean, crisp, lavender scented air, that puts years on your life with every lungful, but sadly, we live in carbon monoxide ridden smog-holes with a ton of pollutants entering our systems with every breath, of which cigarette smoke is just one. Of all the smells that can confront you on a normal walk down any urban street, cigarette smoke is hardly the worst. Have you ever actually smelled tar as it's going on the road? It's nothing like cigarettes, and it's much, much worse.

I don't think second hand smoke is that big a deal unless you're actually sitting in a dense cloud of it, inhaling deeply. Catching a sniff as you walk past the outside of a bar isn't going to give you cancer. The other points, frankly, have nothing to do with you whatsoever.

I agree with you here. Those people are fuckheads.

People do stuff for all kinds of reasons, but the main one is to get pleasure. Maybe you build model aircraft. Maybe you go skateboarding. Maybe you enjoy stapling pieces of construction paper in the shapes of Disney characters to your earlobes. The point is, it's not for you to decide how other people can get their kicks. Whether it affects their health is for them to reconcile. Say you do enjoy skating... well, surely that's hazardous to your health, but I'm not about to start calling you weak just because you happen to get your kicks that way.

The point about non-smokers being forced to put up with smoke, I can sympathise with, because I used to feel that way myself. But as I've grown up and matured, I've realised it's not actually worth crying about, unless you literally are sitting in a fog of it, which is seriously unpleasant. But if that bugs you, you find yourself avoiding putting yourself in those situations. But come on, a little whiff of smoke every so often isn't really a big deal.

People have been smoking and drinking to excess for hundreds of years, and you are not going to change that just because you can't cope with the reasons people do it. It's great that you're strong enough to 'train' yourself to feel high all the time. Maybe you should open a self-help seminar, you'd make a million overnight.

moonstrucksoul

just a little perspective here because i hate bogus statements, even if i did agree with some points in your post.

the average cigarette takes about 5-7 minutes to smoke, let's average that at 6 minutes, OK?
If it costs a dollar a minute, than that's $6 bucks a smoke. and $120 bucks for a pack, and $1200 for a carton. now we all know that's bullshit, so let's be real.

how many of the drinkers never got the chance to quit drinking?

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World's King

I need a drink and cigarette after all this shit.

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soccerchamp76

Someone else brought this up:
When I go to this girl's house who smokes, when i get back, my clothes smell like smoke and stink. When I go to a concert, my clothes smell like nasty cigarette shit. (I can't say bar as I am not old enough to go into one).
When I go to a friend's house who doesn't smoke or to a movie theatre, my clothes do not come back smelling like shit. Get the point?
Drinking does not affect the rest of the people around you, cigarettes do.

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kutulu

I'm not trying to flame anyone, but nonsmokers can be such pussies.

soccerchamp76

We are pussies for being smart about our health? So all health conscious people are pussies? Seems to be quite an ignorant and asinine statement to make.

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analog

sixate, I like Guiness... but I LOVE Jäger. Next round's on me.

As far as being called a hypocrite- if you choose to indulge in something, i don't see why we'd twist your nuts over your other views. Rock on for admitting a vice.

I smoke casually- I call it "socially". I MIGHT have 2 (clove cigarettes) a night if I drink- and only if i'm drinking. Otherwise, I never touch them or have any desire to. *shrug*

I'd love to hear what the hell you mean by that.

Boo

You're not?

Smoking had lost its favor in America. My guess is too many people on oxygen bottles or having their bodies mutilated. When used responsibly... sorry, no such thing.

Alcohol has lost favor, but it is still more acceptable. When used responsibly it enhances a persons life.

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BigGov

I think kutulu is referring to people who go crazy about having to breath just a tiny amount of second hand smoke thinking it will kill them.

It won't.

Pulling this off of http://www.amwa-doc.org/publications...amwa-ch07.html

"The benefits of not smoking start within days of quitting. As the carbon monoxide level in your blood decreases, the oxygen level increases. The heart beat slows to normal, and the lungs begin to clear and heal.

After 1 or 2 years of not smoking, your risk of a heart attack drops sharply and gradually returns to normal after about 10 years. The risk of cancer is gradually reduced, coming close to that of nonsmokers after 10 -15 years."

If those are statistics from everyday smokers, a couple breaths will basically do nothing. Your body is built to filter out things like cigarette smoke, a little bit of second hand smoke won't even come close to overloading your body.

[threadjack]

If you're really that offended by smoking at least learn to deal with it in an effective manner. If for example someone lights up a cigarette near you in a restaurant or such, to get him/her to stop POLITELY ask for them to either put it out or stop after that one. The last thing a smoker cares to hear is someone complaining, rabbling off statistics, or just being a general pain in the ass. Why do I say this? Because if I'm smoking and someone comes up to me and politely asks me to put it out, stop after that one, or something to that effect I'll listen to them. If someone ever comes up to me and starts running off statistics about second hand smoke, starts acting like an asshole getting all hissy, then I'll keep smoking. Hell I'll blow smoke in their direction on purpose. Why? Because I treat people the same way they treat me, many other people do the same.

[/threadjack]

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SecretMethod70

here's what I think the deal is. Not so much of a double standard but a realization and generalization of the fact that, while tobacco is one of the most addictive drugs (more addictive than heroin), alcohol is not nearly as addictive. So, it is assumed that anyone who smokes is addicted. You are an extremely rare exception if you truly are not, but I don't think there's any convincing of your friends otherwise. Nonetheless, it is a simple fact. Someone who drinks semi-regularly is simply flat out not as likely to be addicted a someone who smokes semi-regularly.

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sprocket

Why do they give you shit?!? People love their high horses...

Its also very trendy to hate tobacco these days. Not necassarily a bad thing but half the time these people will tell you your killing yourself by smoking while they are scarfing down a big mac and a bud light. Its pretty funny how some people suddenly become "health conscious" when someone lights up a cig, but they couldnt stick to a healthy diet to save their life.

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Lebell

Keep the comments off each other, please, or this thread will be locked faster than the Marlboro man can suck one off.

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Rlyss

I was thinking about this thread today and was wondering whether it got derailed, but I think I've decided that it hasn't been, and people have brought up some excellent points.

After thinking today and re-reading this thread I think I've figured out a few reasons why the occasional drink is accepted, and the occasional cigarette is often frowned upon.

I think it's because from the view of a third person, the immediate effects of one alcoholic drink are two things: a) only experienced by the person drinking, and thus not affecting others, and b) usually positive. People tend to lighten up after a couple of drinks, most people are friendly, and apart from beer-breath perhaps, there's no immediate negative issues.

But when looking at a group of people with one smoker, and one drinker, to the outsider the only visible effects are negative, and to everyone but the smoker him- or herself. That is, when you see someone have a cigarette or two or three their attitude or manner won't change, so to the outsider they think 'Why bother?' All the outsider experiences is cigarette smoke and ashes sprinkled everywhere, both negative things to just about anyone, I'd imagine.

So I suppose to people who don't smoke, ie. the 'outsider' the only effects of having someone else smoke are negative to them, and there appears to be no obvious effect on the person smoking.

And all this leads me to believe that for people who dislike smoking, regardless of whether they've tried it or not, the only clear and observable effects are bad, while with drinking a couple of drinks the only observable effects are (almost always) good. Therefore for the non-smoker who doesn't realize that to smokers, a cigarette tastes nice and gives a good feeling, it's hard to find any reason to smoke, without concluding that it must be against his or her true will. If you're really in control, why would you do something so obviously bad?

Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks Lebell, I hope the thread stays on course

SecretMethod70

There's a huge flaw in your logic there. I don't think there are ANY immediately positive effects to drinking OR smoking. I don't care how good a person feels from smoking or drinking, now or later. The only difference really is that with drinking, the liver is DESIGNED to remoev toxins that we ingest. With smoking, the lungs are NOT designed to self clean with the same efficiency. Therefore, one cigarette is worse than one drink (although, admittedly, on that scale neither really have any consequence). Furthermore, again, alcohol is not something that is by nature addictive to nearly everyone who takes part in it. Tobacco is. That's why, if I wanted, I could have an alcoholic drink once a night and not be addicted at all. I don't know a single smoker (with the exception of you apparently) who can say the same

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Rlyss

Well I guess when I say positive effects I don't mean benefits, I meant in the way that perhaps alcohol as a 'social lubricant' is a positive effect, or getting a nice buzz when smoking. I certainly don't mean medical benefits!

I understand that people could have a drink every night for years and not become addicted. And I honestly think that if someone were to have a cigarette every night for that long they would likely become addicted to nicotine, yes. But I guess I really am talking more about the people who have a cigarette on a Friday night after work and that's strictly it. (And we'll say that situation is a hypothetical one to avoid any claims of classic denial.)

kl0pper

youre definately not addicted
your friends are being overprotective/worrying...

kutulu

When I say nonsmokers act like pussies, I am referring to how they get offended at the smallest fucking things. One thing in particular is the fake coughing. I'll be finishing a smoke outside of somewhere and some dickhead walks by and *cough.* It's such bullshit.

SecretMethod70

Or, perhaps they're really coughing I know I do.

Just because your body has been trained to handle the smoke doesn't mean everyone else's has.

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Le temps détruit tout

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floydthebarber

Is being offended buy someone coughing at your smoke acting like a pussy?

I agree with most here that cigs are looked at as an inevitable addiction while alcohol can be consumed without becoming addicted.
They also stink while boose doesn't.

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