help w/this logic problem please... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

daydream · 01-28-2004, 07:54 PM

Tom, Dick and Harry have been friends for many years. One is a habitual liar, one always tells the truth, and one sometimes lies. One of them dropped a $10 bill and it landed at their feet.
Tom says: "The $10 is mine."
Dick says: "Tom is telling the truth."
Harry says: "It belongs to Dick."
Whose $10 is it?

THis is probably really simple... but I'm just not seeing it. Does anyone have an idea?

orphen · 01-28-2004, 08:04 PM

isn't this suppose to be in the tilted knowledge? no matter. i don't know the answer, but we can start by trying out a few situations.
First: if the $10 were Tom's then Tom would be telling the truth, Dick would also be and Harry would be the lier.
I don't see anything wrong with that
Second: if the $10 were Dick's then Tom would be lying and Dick also would be and Harry is telling the truth.

Dunno, right now it seems both situations work. i'll need to think about it more

forseti-6 · 01-28-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daydream
Tom, Dick and Harry have been friends for many years. One is a habitual liar, one always tells the truth, and one sometimes lies. One of them dropped a $10 bill and it landed at their feet.
Tom says: "The $10 is mine."
Dick says: "Tom is telling the truth."
Harry says: "It belongs to Dick."
Whose $10 is it?

Well it's NOT Harry's because none of the situations agree with him.

absence_of_color · 01-28-2004, 08:31 PM

I think Harry is the habitual liar, Tom sometimes lies, and Dick always tells the truth. The $10 is Toms?

My brain hurts.

daydream · 01-28-2004, 10:26 PM

thanks for the help guys... keep thinkin... ne one else? It's makin me nuts that I can't figure this out

jay-g · 01-29-2004, 12:26 AM

If one never lies and always tells the truth, wouldnt the guy that said," the $10 is mine" own that money. Tom right?

smooth · 01-29-2004, 12:46 AM

This one seems to work:

Quote:

As a contestant on the island's only TV quiz show, you face 3 residents: Tommy, Babette and Cathy. You are told that 1 is a Knight, 1 a Knave, and 1 a Normal. Tommy says, "I am a Normal." Babette says, "That is true." Cathy says, "I am not a Normal." Your job is to prove with certainty what each is. (Smullyan's #39)

Possible solutions

Tommy is a Knight.
Tommy is a Knave.
Tommy is a Normal.
Babette is a Knight.
Babette is a Knave.
Babette is a Normal.
Cathy is a Knight.
Cathy is a Knave.
Cathy is a Normal.

Fact list

Knights always tell the truth.
Knaves always lie.
Normals sometimes lie, and sometimes tell the truth.
1 contestant is a Knight, 1 a Normal, and 1 a Knave.
Tommy says, "I am a Normal."
Babette says, "That is true."
Cathy says, "I am not a Normal."

Evaluation

If Tommy is lying or telling the truth, he cannot be a Knight. Therefore he is either a truth-telling Normal, or a liar. If he is lying, he must be a Knave. For if he were a lying Normal, he would be telling the truth - an impossibility. If Babette is telling the truth, she is the Knight, and Tommy the Normal. If she is lying, she is a lying Normal, and Tommy is the Knave. If Cathy is lying, she is a Normal. If she is telling the truth, she must be a Knight. As we have shown 1 of the first 2 must be a Normal, Cathy has to be the Knight. Therefore, Babette is the Normal and Tommy the Knave.

From here: http://www.classroomtools.com/logic2.htm

Maybe some more match, but if you replace knight with truth-teller, knave with liar, and sometimes with normal, you should get your answer.

smooth · 01-29-2004, 12:53 AM

Let's see if I've done this right:

Normal = $10

Tommy - I'm normal ($10 is mine) --> Tom

Babbette - That's true ($10 is Tom's) --> Dick

Cathy - I'm not normal ($10 belongs to Dick, not me) --> Harry

Harry (Cathy) is the Knight --> always tells the truth

Since Harry always tells the truth and states the $10 is Dick's, then...

the $10 belongs to Dick.

daydream · 01-29-2004, 03:51 PM

That problem is very similar but I'm not quite sure if it will workout the same.

Thanks for ur response, Smooth. I'm gonna keep lookin over what you said... Ochie my head hurts from tryin to figure this one out...

Has anyone seen this problem b4? Or now where to find the answer?

dnd · 01-29-2004, 04:11 PM

the first time i looked at it i got the $10 being Dicks,

Tom says: "The $10 is mine." ---> sometimes lies
Dick says: "Tom is telling the truth."--> always lies
Harry says: "It belongs to Dick."-->never lies

seems to work...

daydream · 01-31-2004, 02:20 PM

b u m p

jwells777 · 01-31-2004, 03:24 PM

There are only 3 possibilities...

1) The $10 is Tom's: Tom tells the truth, Dick tells the truth, Harry lies

2) The $10 is Dick's: Tom lies, Dick lies, Harry tells the truth

3) The $10 is Harry's: Tom lies, Dick lies, Harry lies

Clearly 3) can't be correct, but technically both 1) and 2) are acceptable options. 1) makes more sense than 2) if you consider how people would be likely to react in the situation.

daydream · 01-31-2004, 07:31 PM

Very true, so it can't be Harry's cause then they would ALL be lying... thanks for that idea.

ok so possible conclusions:

the $10 is Dicks- Tom and Dick are liars and Harry tells the truth

The $10 is Tom's- Then Tom would be telling the truth, Harry is the liar, and Dick sometimes lies (but is telling the truth now).

how am i suppose to know which one the answer is... they both seem to work

bermuDa · 01-31-2004, 08:38 PM

As far as I can see, there are two possibilities, philanthropic and misanthropic. We can either believe the truth prevails and the dollar is Tom's, or that liars are everywhere and the dollar is Dick's.

Or as an alternate approach to option 2 from a lighter perspective on humanity. Tom is having trouble making ends meet. As he and his friends are walking down the street, one of them drops a ten dollar bill. Tom, desparate for cash and a habitual liar, claims the money as his. Dick knows of Tom's plight and although he's a decent person, he occasionally tells a fib and corroborate's Tom's claim in order to help him without it seeming like charity. Harry is unaware of Tom's financial problems and, always the truth-teller, correctly asserts that the bill is Dick's, but is quickly elbowed in the ribs by Dick and Tom is allowed his small windfall to go towards last month's rent....

wow I can't believe I came up with that bullshit.

daydream · 01-31-2004, 09:38 PM

wow, that's a great explanation... good thinking!!

diddagirl · 01-31-2004, 10:13 PM

It has to be Tom's. If Harry was the truthteller, and the money was in fact Dick,s then why the heck would Dick say it was Tom's?? He would claim his own money! So there for, Harry is lying, and either Tom or Dick is telling the truth. Regardless of which one is being truthful- they are both saying the money is Tom's. Therefore all signs point to>>>>>> TOM!

GakFace · 02-01-2004, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dnd
the first time i looked at it i got the $10 being Dicks,

Tom says: "The $10 is mine." ---> sometimes lies
Dick says: "Tom is telling the truth."--> always lies
Harry says: "It belongs to Dick."-->never lies

seems to work...

Yep.. Tom says its his because.. well .. its Ten Bucks.. if you're gonna lie.. now's the time to lie!

And then you can his the big fat liar on your side... who is Dick.. he agrees that its Tom's... while Harry is pointing out.. no its Dick's... As he's used to knowing how Dick always lies.

although personally, while they were argueing I wouldn't mind just walking on over there and pickint it up myself.

The Ten Bucks now belongs to GakFace

absence_of_color · 02-02-2004, 12:07 AM

Grundle says grumpy gears while getting given games. Great!

daydream · 02-13-2004, 08:52 PM

thanks for all of your help with this quetsion... it turned out that my Professor left out a line!! It made me crazy when she told us that! haha

Ok so without the last line there were multiple answers.. it could have been tom's or dick's

but the last line of the question is:
If the $10 belongs to a liar then who's is it?

so then the answer is: It's Dick's $10

mrphil2 · 02-16-2004, 03:57 PM

Sometimes lies = sometimes tells the truth

Chemical Smile · 02-16-2004, 07:27 PM

...isn't it amusing how little things like this can become such big topics of discussion?

01-28-2004, 07:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
daydream Crazy Location: Long Island, NY	help w/this logic problem please... Tom, Dick and Harry have been friends for many years. One is a habitual liar, one always tells the truth, and one sometimes lies. One of them dropped a $10 bill and it landed at their feet. Tom says: "The $10 is mine." Dick says: "Tom is telling the truth." Harry says: "It belongs to Dick." Whose $10 is it? THis is probably really simple... but I'm just not seeing it. Does anyone have an idea? __________________ "Can't help it if I space in a daze, my eyes tune out the other way... I may switch off and go in a daydream... in this head my thoughts are deep, Sometimes I can't even speak, would someone be and not pretend, I'm off again in my world"

01-28-2004, 08:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
absence_of_color Insane Location: in a golden garden of grey	I think Harry is the habitual liar, Tom sometimes lies, and Dick always tells the truth. The $10 is Toms? My brain hurts. __________________ ...absent of everything.

01-28-2004, 10:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
daydream Crazy Location: Long Island, NY	thanks for the help guys... keep thinkin... ne one else? It's makin me nuts that I can't figure this out __________________ "Can't help it if I space in a daze, my eyes tune out the other way... I may switch off and go in a daydream... in this head my thoughts are deep, Sometimes I can't even speak, would someone be and not pretend, I'm off again in my world"

01-29-2004, 03:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
daydream Crazy Location: Long Island, NY	That problem is very similar but I'm not quite sure if it will workout the same. Thanks for ur response, Smooth. I'm gonna keep lookin over what you said... Ochie my head hurts from tryin to figure this one out... Has anyone seen this problem b4? Or now where to find the answer? __________________ "Can't help it if I space in a daze, my eyes tune out the other way... I may switch off and go in a daydream... in this head my thoughts are deep, Sometimes I can't even speak, would someone be and not pretend, I'm off again in my world"

01-29-2004, 04:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
dnd Psycho Location: London...no longer a student	the first time i looked at it i got the $10 being Dicks, Tom says: "The $10 is mine." ---> sometimes lies Dick says: "Tom is telling the truth."--> always lies Harry says: "It belongs to Dick."-->never lies seems to work... __________________ "Never underestimate a dumb question"-- Brandon Boyd

01-28-2004, 08:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
orphen Insane	isn't this suppose to be in the tilted knowledge? no matter. i don't know the answer, but we can start by trying out a few situations. First: if the $10 were Tom's then Tom would be telling the truth, Dick would also be and Harry would be the lier. I don't see anything wrong with that Second: if the $10 were Dick's then Tom would be lying and Dick also would be and Harry is telling the truth. Dunno, right now it seems both situations work. i'll need to think about it more

01-29-2004, 12:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
jay-g Addict	If one never lies and always tells the truth, wouldnt the guy that said," the $10 is mine" own that money. Tom right?

01-29-2004, 12:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Let's see if I've done this right: Normal = $10 Tommy - I'm normal ($10 is mine) --> Tom Babbette - That's true ($10 is Tom's) --> Dick Cathy - I'm not normal ($10 belongs to Dick, not me) --> Harry Harry (Cathy) is the Knight --> always tells the truth Since Harry always tells the truth and states the $10 is Dick's, then... the $10 belongs to Dick.

01-31-2004, 02:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
daydream Crazy Location: Long Island, NY	b u m p __________________ "Can't help it if I space in a daze, my eyes tune out the other way... I may switch off and go in a daydream... in this head my thoughts are deep, Sometimes I can't even speak, would someone be and not pretend, I'm off again in my world"

01-31-2004, 03:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
jwells777 Tilted	There are only 3 possibilities... 1) The $10 is Tom's: Tom tells the truth, Dick tells the truth, Harry lies 2) The $10 is Dick's: Tom lies, Dick lies, Harry tells the truth 3) The $10 is Harry's: Tom lies, Dick lies, Harry lies Clearly 3) can't be correct, but technically both 1) and 2) are acceptable options. 1) makes more sense than 2) if you consider how people would be likely to react in the situation.

01-31-2004, 07:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
daydream Crazy Location: Long Island, NY	Very true, so it can't be Harry's cause then they would ALL be lying... thanks for that idea. ok so possible conclusions: the $10 is Dicks- Tom and Dick are liars and Harry tells the truth The $10 is Tom's- Then Tom would be telling the truth, Harry is the liar, and Dick sometimes lies (but is telling the truth now). how am i suppose to know which one the answer is... they both seem to work __________________ "Can't help it if I space in a daze, my eyes tune out the other way... I may switch off and go in a daydream... in this head my thoughts are deep, Sometimes I can't even speak, would someone be and not pretend, I'm off again in my world" Last edited by daydream; 01-31-2004 at 08:08 PM..

01-31-2004, 08:38 PM	#14 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	As far as I can see, there are two possibilities, philanthropic and misanthropic. We can either believe the truth prevails and the dollar is Tom's, or that liars are everywhere and the dollar is Dick's. Or as an alternate approach to option 2 from a lighter perspective on humanity. Tom is having trouble making ends meet. As he and his friends are walking down the street, one of them drops a ten dollar bill. Tom, desparate for cash and a habitual liar, claims the money as his. Dick knows of Tom's plight and although he's a decent person, he occasionally tells a fib and corroborate's Tom's claim in order to help him without it seeming like charity. Harry is unaware of Tom's financial problems and, always the truth-teller, correctly asserts that the bill is Dick's, but is quickly elbowed in the ribs by Dick and Tom is allowed his small windfall to go towards last month's rent.... wow I can't believe I came up with that bullshit. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

01-31-2004, 09:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
daydream Crazy Location: Long Island, NY	wow, that's a great explanation... good thinking!! __________________ "Can't help it if I space in a daze, my eyes tune out the other way... I may switch off and go in a daydream... in this head my thoughts are deep, Sometimes I can't even speak, would someone be and not pretend, I'm off again in my world"

01-31-2004, 10:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
diddagirl Addict Location: Calgary, AB	It has to be Tom's. If Harry was the truthteller, and the money was in fact Dick,s then why the heck would Dick say it was Tom's?? He would claim his own money! So there for, Harry is lying, and either Tom or Dick is telling the truth. Regardless of which one is being truthful- they are both saying the money is Tom's. Therefore all signs point to>>>>>> TOM! __________________ "Is it so small a thing to have enjoyed the sun, to have lived long in the spring, to have loved, to have thought, to have done." -Matthew Arnold

02-02-2004, 12:07 AM	#18 (permalink)
absence_of_color Insane Location: in a golden garden of grey	Grundle says grumpy gears while getting given games. Great! __________________ ...absent of everything.

02-13-2004, 08:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
daydream Crazy Location: Long Island, NY	thanks for all of your help with this quetsion... it turned out that my Professor left out a line!! It made me crazy when she told us that! haha Ok so without the last line there were multiple answers.. it could have been tom's or dick's but the last line of the question is: If the $10 belongs to a liar then who's is it? so then the answer is: It's Dick's $10 __________________ "Can't help it if I space in a daze, my eyes tune out the other way... I may switch off and go in a daydream... in this head my thoughts are deep, Sometimes I can't even speak, would someone be and not pretend, I'm off again in my world"

02-16-2004, 03:57 PM	#20 (permalink)
mrphil2 Upright Location: Maryland	Sometimes lies = sometimes tells the truth __________________ expect the unexpected

02-16-2004, 07:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
Chemical Smile Upright Location: Chicago, IL	...isn't it amusing how little things like this can become such big topics of discussion?