Reasonable Right to Privacy at home. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

skinbag · 10-08-2003, 06:20 PM

Say an engaged couple is having relationship problems and one spouse decides to videotape the other in the home without the others knowledge. Is this as illegal as it sounds and are there any legal precedents? The taping spouse also is recording /tapping phone conversations while away from home. The case is in Wisconsin, USA.
Thanks for any input..

Lebell · 10-08-2003, 06:23 PM

Link?

Cynthetiq · 10-08-2003, 06:42 PM

there are plenty of incidents where spouses have videotaped, recoreded phone conversations of cheating spouses, it stood up in court for divorce.

pretty much ends this discussion even without the link.

skinbag · 10-08-2003, 06:47 PM

No link.....just heard about it at a friends house; I'm wondering if the videotaped party can press charges because the one with the camera and wire taps is getting scary.

skinbag · 10-08-2003, 07:14 PM

I don't have a precedent case to link, if that's what you mean. wifey and I are Googling right now for one. It's an engaged couple with 2 infants. The woman is being blackmailed by the father because he caught her looking mean on tape. This is in their home and without her knowledge, BTW.

rogue49 · 10-08-2003, 08:42 PM

The usual precedent is unless someone gives you consent to film
and/or release to others...then you can be prosecuted. (this includes any media)

That is unless you are doing so for security purposes on your own property.
And even then, it can't be released to the public without permission.

John Falcon · 10-08-2003, 10:22 PM

Why are they videotaping? What's on the tape?

I know in my state it's legal as long as there's no audio. You need consent or a warrant for that.

taog · 10-08-2003, 10:41 PM

I think as long as you don't distribute the tapes to other parties, it's totally legal, as long as it's on your own property

otherwise tv programs and such that tape people doing funny things without them knowing would be in big shit all the time

Also, you can go and videotape or take pictures of places and sights with other people in them, can't you? Wouldn't the laws be a little less strict if it's on your own property? I could see it causing problems if it was on someone elses property, but it's your own... you should be able to tape whatever the fuck you want.

skinbag · 10-09-2003, 05:18 AM

It has audio and video of her waking up to a huge mess and swearing at the toddler. The taper has taken the tape to show to the woman's freinds, and he is telling her that if she does anything wrong he is going to release it. He's saying things like "Just you wait and see what I'll do with it."
I should mention they are living together in the same house, so I would think that she should have a reasonable expectation of privacy, espacially regarding private phone calls.

Hash_Browns · 10-09-2003, 05:38 AM

If I were that woman, I would be leaving right about now and not even give him a chance to mess with my head. How stupid do you have to be to stay in a home with someone like that...HELLO!! I'm sorry, I yell at my kids and can see this happening and it being no big deal. But if she is cussing and calling this kid bad names..ok fine that's a bit harsh I'm sure...but still not a reason to be 'blackmailed'.

I am not even thinking about legal issues, I'm more worried about saftey issues, this guy obviously has issues and if he thinks blackmailing this woman is good for him or his kids, then he's a stupid person. She needs to just leave, get a new residence, and then press charges of harrassment and whatever that term is when someone spreads false things about you (like blackmailing her and saying she's mean or whatever).

Are these kids his? I understand they live together and all...but even if they are, they don't need to be in the middle of this. Is that the only time he seems to have her being 'mean' is yelling at the kids because of a mess?

Are these friends of yours or just something you heard? I can't tell for sure...

skinbag · 10-09-2003, 05:50 AM

Freind of a friend. She happened to be at a friend's place we visited last night. I agree with you on the safety issue. We offered her our place to get relief, but since our 3 person family is living in a 1-bedroom, I think we'd be over fire codes. We did get her phone # to help with information and babysitting, emergency haven, etc. I'm trying to gather info to help her see how messed up the guy is and to convince her she's not going to have problems keeping her kids if she goes to social services.

Hash_Browns · 10-09-2003, 05:57 AM

I can imagine that she must be in a terrible state right now in her own mind. Having someone tell you how 'bad' you are and then having a tape that 'says so' is even worse. I'm in MI so I can't really offer much help, although I wish I could. This doesn't sound like something I would want to see a friend go through, and I know that no mother deserves it when she trully loves her kids and didn't really do anything wrong except swear and get angry...we all do...she needs to know that. She's not beating them, she's not forcing them to slave and clean her home top to bottom...she's just being a Mom. The most they might care about is the swearing, and I'm sure they won't even countit because of the way he taped it..and has been using that tape.

If there is anything I can do...which I'm sure might seem silly to some people...let me know! I'm a mother of two and know this can't be easy...

Midnight_Son · 10-09-2003, 05:59 AM

if YOU made the tape in YOUR house, it's ok
if YOU made the tape in SOMEONE ELSE'S house, it's not ok
if SOMEONE ELSE made a tape in YOUR house, it's not ok

skinbag · 10-09-2003, 06:10 AM

If YOU make a tape of YOUR family in YOUR house without THEIR knowledge, then send the tapes out to THEIR family?

Hash_Browns · 10-09-2003, 06:10 AM

Ok, I understand the making the tape is 'legal' but showing other people without her consent, and then blackmailing her with it? I just don't see how that's right...and that the tape is even credible now that he's used it in such a way...now it's a reason for him to be charged...not her...

skinbag · 10-09-2003, 06:16 AM

That's what I say. Now I want to find a precedent to show her. Her mind is understandably confused right now, and I think an example would give her some relief and confidence.
Does anyone know how to search legal databases/case lists? I've been finding some stuff, but mostly in the public sphere, e.g. police and surveillance cameras. I guess my searching talents are lacking..

skinbag · 10-09-2003, 08:42 AM

I found the Free Advice Forum. I'm letting that work for now. It seems to deal with legal advice well.
http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthre...hreadid=162141

Dibbler · 10-09-2003, 08:43 AM

Maybe the tapes not illegal but using the tape for extortion is.

skinbag · 10-09-2003, 06:20 PM

Here is the answer,
----Wis. Stat. § 968.31: A person who is a party to a wire, electronic or oral communication, or who has obtained prior consent from one party, can legally record and divulge the contents of the communication, unless he does so for the purpose of committing a criminal or tortious act.

Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Wis. Stat. § 968.27.

Effective Feb. 1, 2003, the punishment for recording or disclosing the contents of a conversation without the appropriate consent is imprisonment for up to six years and/or a criminal fine of up to $10,000. Wisconsin law expressly authorizes civil damages for violations and allows recovery of the greater of actual damages, $100 for each day of violation or $1,000, along with punitive damages, litigation costs and attorney fees.----

looks like He'd better be real nice to her from now on!

taog · 10-11-2003, 10:18 AM

blackmailing

i think this is the main thing here. The whole taping thing in their own home, without distributing is a little weird, but blackmailing is not legal as far as i know.

Also, imagine the thought of your friends seeing you get over angry at your kids because you are sick and tired of cleaning up after them and because the guy you are living with doesn't do anything either. She's probably under a lot of stress with dealing with her kids and the guy she's dealing with. It sounds to me like he's an asshole, so he probably adds a lot of stress.

She probably overreacted and probably had done so many times before, which is why the guy taped her in the first place. I wouldn't want my friends seeing me like that, because they might judge. I think most people would act the same way, but want to take it back right after it happened.

I have overreacted during breakups and such with ex-girlfriends. Like my last girlfriend, which wasn't all that long ago. I felt like i was kind of being walked all over and pushed to the side, when in reality, all i needed to do was realize that she didn't want me that way anymore. I got angry and overreacted and said and did a lot of things i really regret and would take back in a second, if i could. I didn't get violent or yell or anything silly like that, but i said some shitty things that were out of line. I'm pretty sure a lot of people do that from time to time too.

Either way, my point.

She's probably in the same boat, because i wouldn't want any of my friends knowing how i acted during that breakup, even though it wasn't that bad. I'm sure she's thinking the same thing. She probably doesn't want her friends seeing this video of her getting angry at her kids, because she feels that she's not that person, or she's ashamed of it. She does need to leave, but i can see why the fear would keep her there.

10-08-2003, 06:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	Reasonable Right to Privacy at home. Say an engaged couple is having relationship problems and one spouse decides to videotape the other in the home without the others knowledge. Is this as illegal as it sounds and are there any legal precedents? The taping spouse also is recording /tapping phone conversations while away from home. The case is in Wisconsin, USA. Thanks for any input..

10-08-2003, 06:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Link? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-08-2003, 06:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	there are plenty of incidents where spouses have videotaped, recoreded phone conversations of cheating spouses, it stood up in court for divorce. pretty much ends this discussion even without the link. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

10-08-2003, 08:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	The usual precedent is unless someone gives you consent to film and/or release to others...then you can be prosecuted. (this includes any media) That is unless you are doing so for security purposes on your own property. And even then, it can't be released to the public without permission. Last edited by rogue49; 10-08-2003 at 08:44 PM..

10-08-2003, 10:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
John Falcon Psycho Location: New York, CA	Why are they videotaping? What's on the tape? I know in my state it's legal as long as there's no audio. You need consent or a warrant for that. Last edited by John Falcon; 10-08-2003 at 10:25 PM..

10-08-2003, 06:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	No link.....just heard about it at a friends house; I'm wondering if the videotaped party can press charges because the one with the camera and wire taps is getting scary.

10-08-2003, 07:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	I don't have a precedent case to link, if that's what you mean. wifey and I are Googling right now for one. It's an engaged couple with 2 infants. The woman is being blackmailed by the father because he caught her looking mean on tape. This is in their home and without her knowledge, BTW.

10-08-2003, 10:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
taog Crazy Location: London, Ontario, Canada	I think as long as you don't distribute the tapes to other parties, it's totally legal, as long as it's on your own property otherwise tv programs and such that tape people doing funny things without them knowing would be in big shit all the time Also, you can go and videotape or take pictures of places and sights with other people in them, can't you? Wouldn't the laws be a little less strict if it's on your own property? I could see it causing problems if it was on someone elses property, but it's your own... you should be able to tape whatever the fuck you want.

10-09-2003, 05:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	It has audio and video of her waking up to a huge mess and swearing at the toddler. The taper has taken the tape to show to the woman's freinds, and he is telling her that if she does anything wrong he is going to release it. He's saying things like "Just you wait and see what I'll do with it." I should mention they are living together in the same house, so I would think that she should have a reasonable expectation of privacy, espacially regarding private phone calls.

10-09-2003, 05:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
Hash_Browns Psycho Location: Right behind you...BOO!	If I were that woman, I would be leaving right about now and not even give him a chance to mess with my head. How stupid do you have to be to stay in a home with someone like that...HELLO!! I'm sorry, I yell at my kids and can see this happening and it being no big deal. But if she is cussing and calling this kid bad names..ok fine that's a bit harsh I'm sure...but still not a reason to be 'blackmailed'. I am not even thinking about legal issues, I'm more worried about saftey issues, this guy obviously has issues and if he thinks blackmailing this woman is good for him or his kids, then he's a stupid person. She needs to just leave, get a new residence, and then press charges of harrassment and whatever that term is when someone spreads false things about you (like blackmailing her and saying she's mean or whatever). Are these kids his? I understand they live together and all...but even if they are, they don't need to be in the middle of this. Is that the only time he seems to have her being 'mean' is yelling at the kids because of a mess? Are these friends of yours or just something you heard? I can't tell for sure... __________________ Smile It makes people wonder what you're up too!

10-09-2003, 05:50 AM	#11 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	Freind of a friend. She happened to be at a friend's place we visited last night. I agree with you on the safety issue. We offered her our place to get relief, but since our 3 person family is living in a 1-bedroom, I think we'd be over fire codes. We did get her phone # to help with information and babysitting, emergency haven, etc. I'm trying to gather info to help her see how messed up the guy is and to convince her she's not going to have problems keeping her kids if she goes to social services.

10-09-2003, 05:57 AM	#12 (permalink)
Hash_Browns Psycho Location: Right behind you...BOO!	I can imagine that she must be in a terrible state right now in her own mind. Having someone tell you how 'bad' you are and then having a tape that 'says so' is even worse. I'm in MI so I can't really offer much help, although I wish I could. This doesn't sound like something I would want to see a friend go through, and I know that no mother deserves it when she trully loves her kids and didn't really do anything wrong except swear and get angry...we all do...she needs to know that. She's not beating them, she's not forcing them to slave and clean her home top to bottom...she's just being a Mom. The most they might care about is the swearing, and I'm sure they won't even countit because of the way he taped it..and has been using that tape. If there is anything I can do...which I'm sure might seem silly to some people...let me know! I'm a mother of two and know this can't be easy... __________________ Smile It makes people wonder what you're up too!

10-09-2003, 05:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
Midnight_Son The Cover Doesn't Match The Book Location: in a van down by the river	if YOU made the tape in YOUR house, it's ok if YOU made the tape in SOMEONE ELSE'S house, it's not ok if SOMEONE ELSE made a tape in YOUR house, it's not ok __________________ SWM, tattooed, seeks meaningful tits and beer. Enjoys biker mags, pornography, and Sunday morning walks to the liquor store. Winners of erotic hot dog eating contests given priority.

10-09-2003, 06:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	If YOU make a tape of YOUR family in YOUR house without THEIR knowledge, then send the tapes out to THEIR family?

10-09-2003, 06:10 AM	#15 (permalink)
Hash_Browns Psycho Location: Right behind you...BOO!	Ok, I understand the making the tape is 'legal' but showing other people without her consent, and then blackmailing her with it? I just don't see how that's right...and that the tape is even credible now that he's used it in such a way...now it's a reason for him to be charged...not her... __________________ Smile It makes people wonder what you're up too!

10-09-2003, 06:16 AM	#16 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	That's what I say. Now I want to find a precedent to show her. Her mind is understandably confused right now, and I think an example would give her some relief and confidence. Does anyone know how to search legal databases/case lists? I've been finding some stuff, but mostly in the public sphere, e.g. police and surveillance cameras. I guess my searching talents are lacking..

10-09-2003, 08:42 AM	#17 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	I found the Free Advice Forum. I'm letting that work for now. It seems to deal with legal advice well. http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthre...hreadid=162141

10-09-2003, 08:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
Dibbler Psycho Location: Initech, Iowa	Maybe the tapes not illegal but using the tape for extortion is.

10-09-2003, 06:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
skinbag Registered User Location: Madison WI	Here is the answer, ----Wis. Stat. § 968.31: A person who is a party to a wire, electronic or oral communication, or who has obtained prior consent from one party, can legally record and divulge the contents of the communication, unless he does so for the purpose of committing a criminal or tortious act. Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Wis. Stat. § 968.27. Effective Feb. 1, 2003, the punishment for recording or disclosing the contents of a conversation without the appropriate consent is imprisonment for up to six years and/or a criminal fine of up to $10,000. Wisconsin law expressly authorizes civil damages for violations and allows recovery of the greater of actual damages, $100 for each day of violation or $1,000, along with punitive damages, litigation costs and attorney fees.---- looks like He'd better be real nice to her from now on! Last edited by skinbag; 10-09-2003 at 06:22 PM..

10-11-2003, 10:18 AM	#20 (permalink)
taog Crazy Location: London, Ontario, Canada	blackmailing i think this is the main thing here. The whole taping thing in their own home, without distributing is a little weird, but blackmailing is not legal as far as i know. Also, imagine the thought of your friends seeing you get over angry at your kids because you are sick and tired of cleaning up after them and because the guy you are living with doesn't do anything either. She's probably under a lot of stress with dealing with her kids and the guy she's dealing with. It sounds to me like he's an asshole, so he probably adds a lot of stress. She probably overreacted and probably had done so many times before, which is why the guy taped her in the first place. I wouldn't want my friends seeing me like that, because they might judge. I think most people would act the same way, but want to take it back right after it happened. I have overreacted during breakups and such with ex-girlfriends. Like my last girlfriend, which wasn't all that long ago. I felt like i was kind of being walked all over and pushed to the side, when in reality, all i needed to do was realize that she didn't want me that way anymore. I got angry and overreacted and said and did a lot of things i really regret and would take back in a second, if i could. I didn't get violent or yell or anything silly like that, but i said some shitty things that were out of line. I'm pretty sure a lot of people do that from time to time too. Either way, my point. She's probably in the same boat, because i wouldn't want any of my friends knowing how i acted during that breakup, even though it wasn't that bad. I'm sure she's thinking the same thing. She probably doesn't want her friends seeing this video of her getting angry at her kids, because she feels that she's not that person, or she's ashamed of it. She does need to leave, but i can see why the fear would keep her there.