Schools tackle PDA problem - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

nothingx · 09-22-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Students who bring their own PDAs to school today mostly use them as organizers and notepads. But many newer models have wireless Internet access, making it ever more difficult for teachers to detect students exchanging gossipy notes or test answers.

If schools haven't addressed the PDA issue yet, "it's something they'll have to wrestle with in the next couple of years as students bring more of these kind of gadgets to schools," said John Bailey, director of education technology for the Department of Education.

Source: CNN

When I was in school, about the sneakest thing we could get away with was playing games on our graphing calculators. Now kids have wireless net access right in the classrooms. I can see both positive and negitive effects of this. It would be great to have all that information at your fingertips, but does it mean that kids will really learn less? Is being able to lookup http://www.google.com/search?q=American+Revolution just as good as memorizing what happened? I'm not a big fan of being forced to memorize trivia, especially when I can have an augmented memory with a PDA. What do you think? Is augmented memory smart, or just cheating?

Sapper · 09-22-2003, 02:33 PM

Lol.

Wireless access is only avaliable where schools have weak WiFi and Bluetooth implementation.

Serves the schools right!

As per cheating, I like the good o'l university math rule: absolutely no calculators of any kind

uncle phil · 09-22-2003, 02:43 PM

sapper. that was my old high school rule...

SecretMethod70 · 09-22-2003, 03:09 PM

Man, and I thought I was cool when I had a bleeding edge TI-89 with pretty print and the coolest calculator games (and the ability to do SO many more calculus and physics problems

)

Now they have PDAs and internet! Geez!

Anyways, on tests it always was and will be a good idea to restrict calculator usage. My AP calculus class had 2 part tests - one part with no calculators allowed and another with harder problems (numerically speaking) that calculators were allowed on. It worked out really well.

As for PDAs though, there's really little use for them in high school. They can write their homework down on paper like everyone else has. I'd just as soon prohibit them from school, just like laser pointers

The_Dude · 09-22-2003, 03:16 PM

I mean, what is a circumstance where a kid would need to use a pda to solve a problem?

bermuDa · 09-22-2003, 03:53 PM

knowing how to find information is almost as good as memorizing it, but it's no substitute for actually KNOWING something.

jfranco13 · 09-22-2003, 04:09 PM

I used to program all the formulas into my calculator (Ti-82) for not only calc, but Chem and Physics as well. So did everyone else. Finally in my 3rd year of college, my physics prof banned calculators and gave everyone a formula sheet. But I don't see ANY reason that kiddies could need their PDA during a test. You just have to watch and make sure they don't whip it out

krwlz · 09-22-2003, 04:12 PM

Someone once said (i think it was Einstien) That if you could look it up, there was no point in memorizing it. The man didnt even know his own telephone number...

I agree.

vermin · 09-22-2003, 04:13 PM

Batteries don't last forever. Some things you NEED to know. Other things you need to know to keep from being considered an imbecile. Then again, you can always run for elected office.

soccerchamp76 · 09-22-2003, 04:59 PM

My school jsut implenmented a school-wide wireless program. Every student in the school (6-12 grade) has their own laptop (same laptop provided by the school on a 3-year lease) and a wireless router in every single room, even the hallways. You can even get wireless internet outside and in the gym.

But there are ways to prevent cheating. Each laptop has Windows XP and 4 user names....Administrator (for the tech guys), Student (for school, limited access, no Windows Media Player, no IM), Home account (can login at school wit the home account, no restricitons on programs except changins setting ti scfew up the laptop) and Exam (on Examview, no other programs excent calculator, no IM, no internet, nothing, just Examview [a program to take tests])

Our school thought this up very cleverly, but it is nice to gon on AIM during school in boring classes. And going to informational websites, and doing research online is helpful.

Giant Hamburger · 09-22-2003, 05:20 PM

Hail Civilizers!

The lack of true learning will haunt the youth of today sometime tomorrow.

Question: Where will they be when civilization crumbles and they must live by their wits, know how and the sharpened edge of steel?

Answer: In my belly.

Let them use their infernal devices whilst they can.
They grow softer every second and more succulent.
-GH

Flesh · 09-22-2003, 05:31 PM

wow soccerchamp76, that's a high budget school.

David2000 · 09-22-2003, 05:42 PM

i guess the only thing that I can say is that we'll all be sorry when a generation of kids doesn't know how to do real research or solve problems on their own because the internet has a quick and easy answer to everything. but oh well, I went through the "new math" program and I did ok for myself. WE'll always be experimenting with how to raise kids and we'll NEVER get it right, so lets see how this one turns out.

uncle phil · 09-22-2003, 06:07 PM

GH, you set the table; i'll cook...

tinfoil · 09-22-2003, 06:08 PM

Knowing where to find information and how to look for information you don't know is a very good trait indeed but only to a certain degree.

My college 'lectronics and digital classes allowed us to bring in a small study guide. The guide gave basic formulas but it was still up to the student to apply the formula.

Using a resource as exhaustive as the internet may indeed be cheating. There is no work involved and promotes a culture tied to the internet.

nothingx · 09-22-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Wireless access is only avaliable where schools have weak WiFi and Bluetooth implementation.

Not true at all. I have access to the 'net via my cell phone's CDMA connection. It's not fast, but it does't have to be to look up text information.

I think that this PDA thing is only the beginings of the ubiquitous computing problem. Who knows what the future holds. Perhaps we'll all one day be 'borgs. I'm glad to see that soccerchamp76's school is embracing this technology and finding ways for students to use it in a controlled manner.

If information retrieval becomes fast, and better semantics and ontologies are found, I think an augmented memory could be just as viable as an organic brain memory. In a sense, whatever Google knows, so do you.

Sledge · 09-22-2003, 07:59 PM

PDAs aren't really as useful in school as you might think - mainly I used mine for games and reading cached web pages. During tests, people WILL notice if you're reading from it or (god forbid) typing into it to someone else. Crib sheets are just as easy and effective, and several hundred dollars cheaper.

When telepathy is developed and goes public, then we can panic.

Cynthetiq · 09-22-2003, 08:26 PM

nothing sez cheatin' like a good crib sheet scrawled up and down your arms, shoes, and collar. ANALOG baby!!!

djtestudo · 09-22-2003, 08:39 PM

At my old college (Maryland), the teachers often post test answers online. One business professor last year was doing it during the test, so some kids got someone outside to get the answers and text message them to the students. They got in deep shit for this, and the school is still trying to figure out what to do.

battlemouth · 09-23-2003, 06:58 AM

i want a pda now! geez

fallen_angel · 09-23-2003, 09:22 AM

we never had these kinda problems in my highschool days

skysooner · 09-23-2003, 11:09 AM

I remember when they didn't even let us use calculators on math tests. Today, I'm glad they did not. Being able to do a "back of the envelope" calculation has saved my ass more times than one.

arcane · 09-23-2003, 06:12 PM

i remember programming all my hard math formulas into my ti-86

then once everyone found out they all got ti-86'es and copied my programs

raeanna74 · 09-24-2003, 06:56 AM

ha ha Cheat sheets. I disguised one once for a short quiz. Knew the questions before hand and wrote the answers in base two. Converted all the letters to numbers and then base two. Just looked like a sheet with lots of 1's 0's and x's for the spaces. Worked ok. It was something that I'd been having a hard time remembering. I know base two so well it was a sinch. Thing is. It took too much time to prepare. Never tried it again.

nothingx · 09-24-2003, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Converted all the letters to numbers and then base two.

While I admire your ingenuity, I must say, it hardly seems worth the effort.

soccerchamp76 · 09-24-2003, 01:41 PM

Flesh, guess who is paying for it?
The students...damn administration keeps rasing tuition each year. I will only have the laptop for one year (1 year lease for $950, with buyout option at $1500 to keep the laptop [ripoff])

tikki · 09-24-2003, 01:49 PM

My cell phone has internet, my laptop has internet, and my soon to be new PDA will have internet (Tungsten), but I have never been in a class at Purdue where they would let me use any of those devices in a testing environment. Hell, we cant even use graphic calculators in math classes.

JusticeForPhat · 09-24-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krwlz
Someone once said (i think it was Einstien) That if you could look it up, there was no point in memorizing it. The man didnt even know his own telephone number...

I agree.

same here. One guy I know tried to memorize the steam tables out of the back of our thermo book so he didnt have to waste time looking them up. Never got a right answer.

Its one thing to recognize a highly repeated number, like the density of water, but to try to memorize everything is a waste of brain power.

H12 · 09-24-2003, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by krwlz
Someone once said (i think it was Einstien) That if you could look it up, there was no point in memorizing it. The man didnt even know his own telephone number...

I agree.

As long as you have some common sense so you can survive the normal and/or social life, then this is a quote to live by.

09-22-2003, 02:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sapper Insane Location: The Internet	Lol. Wireless access is only avaliable where schools have weak WiFi and Bluetooth implementation. Serves the schools right! As per cheating, I like the good o'l university math rule: absolutely no calculators of any kind __________________ rm -f /bin/laden

09-22-2003, 02:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	sapper. that was my old high school rule... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-22-2003, 03:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Man, and I thought I was cool when I had a bleeding edge TI-89 with pretty print and the coolest calculator games (and the ability to do SO many more calculus and physics problems ) Now they have PDAs and internet! Geez! Anyways, on tests it always was and will be a good idea to restrict calculator usage. My AP calculus class had 2 part tests - one part with no calculators allowed and another with harder problems (numerically speaking) that calculators were allowed on. It worked out really well. As for PDAs though, there's really little use for them in high school. They can write their homework down on paper like everyone else has. I'd just as soon prohibit them from school, just like laser pointers __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

09-22-2003, 03:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	I mean, what is a circumstance where a kid would need to use a pda to solve a problem? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

09-22-2003, 03:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	knowing how to find information is almost as good as memorizing it, but it's no substitute for actually KNOWING something. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

09-22-2003, 04:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
jfranco13 Crazy Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I used to program all the formulas into my calculator (Ti-82) for not only calc, but Chem and Physics as well. So did everyone else. Finally in my 3rd year of college, my physics prof banned calculators and gave everyone a formula sheet. But I don't see ANY reason that kiddies could need their PDA during a test. You just have to watch and make sure they don't whip it out __________________ We may lose, and we may win, but we will never be here again.

09-22-2003, 04:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	Someone once said (i think it was Einstien) That if you could look it up, there was no point in memorizing it. The man didnt even know his own telephone number... I agree.

09-22-2003, 04:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
vermin Indifferent to anti-matter Location: Tucson, AZ	Batteries don't last forever. Some things you NEED to know. Other things you need to know to keep from being considered an imbecile. Then again, you can always run for elected office. __________________ If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.

09-22-2003, 04:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	My school jsut implenmented a school-wide wireless program. Every student in the school (6-12 grade) has their own laptop (same laptop provided by the school on a 3-year lease) and a wireless router in every single room, even the hallways. You can even get wireless internet outside and in the gym. But there are ways to prevent cheating. Each laptop has Windows XP and 4 user names....Administrator (for the tech guys), Student (for school, limited access, no Windows Media Player, no IM), Home account (can login at school wit the home account, no restricitons on programs except changins setting ti scfew up the laptop) and Exam (on Examview, no other programs excent calculator, no IM, no internet, nothing, just Examview [a program to take tests]) Our school thought this up very cleverly, but it is nice to gon on AIM during school in boring classes. And going to informational websites, and doing research online is helpful.

09-22-2003, 05:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
Giant Hamburger Gastrolithuanian Location: low-velocity Earth orbit	Hail Civilizers! The lack of true learning will haunt the youth of today sometime tomorrow. Question: Where will they be when civilization crumbles and they must live by their wits, know how and the sharpened edge of steel? Answer: In my belly. Let them use their infernal devices whilst they can. They grow softer every second and more succulent. -GH

09-22-2003, 05:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Flesh Psycho	wow soccerchamp76, that's a high budget school.

09-22-2003, 05:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
David2000 Tilted Location: New Haven, CT	i guess the only thing that I can say is that we'll all be sorry when a generation of kids doesn't know how to do real research or solve problems on their own because the internet has a quick and easy answer to everything. but oh well, I went through the "new math" program and I did ok for myself. WE'll always be experimenting with how to raise kids and we'll NEVER get it right, so lets see how this one turns out. __________________ However livin' better now, Gucci sweater now..

09-22-2003, 06:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	GH, you set the table; i'll cook... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

09-22-2003, 06:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
tinfoil Fucking Hostile Location: Springford, ON, Canada	Knowing where to find information and how to look for information you don't know is a very good trait indeed but only to a certain degree. My college 'lectronics and digital classes allowed us to bring in a small study guide. The guide gave basic formulas but it was still up to the student to apply the formula. Using a resource as exhaustive as the internet may indeed be cheating. There is no work involved and promotes a culture tied to the internet. __________________ Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

09-22-2003, 07:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	PDAs aren't really as useful in school as you might think - mainly I used mine for games and reading cached web pages. During tests, people WILL notice if you're reading from it or (god forbid) typing into it to someone else. Crib sheets are just as easy and effective, and several hundred dollars cheaper. When telepathy is developed and goes public, then we can panic.

09-22-2003, 08:26 PM	#18 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	nothing sez cheatin' like a good crib sheet scrawled up and down your arms, shoes, and collar. ANALOG baby!!! __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-23-2003, 06:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
battlemouth Robot Lovin' Location: Boston	i want a pda now! geez __________________ like a bullet through a flock of doves

09-22-2003, 08:39 PM	#19 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	At my old college (Maryland), the teachers often post test answers online. One business professor last year was doing it during the test, so some kids got someone outside to get the answers and text message them to the students. They got in deep shit for this, and the school is still trying to figure out what to do. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

09-23-2003, 09:22 AM	#21 (permalink)
fallen_angel Psycho Location: Somewhere between the Havens and the Earth	we never had these kinda problems in my highschool days __________________ from the Havens I have fallen. . . to the earth as a mangled form. . . writhing in pain, my wings torn and bloodied. . . I have one purpose, only one goal. . . to find you and love you, for I am your. . . fallen angel

09-23-2003, 11:09 AM	#22 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	I remember when they didn't even let us use calculators on math tests. Today, I'm glad they did not. Being able to do a "back of the envelope" calculation has saved my ass more times than one.

09-23-2003, 06:12 PM	#23 (permalink)
arcane Insane Location: SLC, UT	i remember programming all my hard math formulas into my ti-86 then once everyone found out they all got ti-86'es and copied my programs __________________ <Arcane> so if you banged 2000 chicks then at least one had a pen0r?

09-24-2003, 06:56 AM	#24 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	ha ha Cheat sheets. I disguised one once for a short quiz. Knew the questions before hand and wrote the answers in base two. Converted all the letters to numbers and then base two. Just looked like a sheet with lots of 1's 0's and x's for the spaces. Worked ok. It was something that I'd been having a hard time remembering. I know base two so well it was a sinch. Thing is. It took too much time to prepare. Never tried it again. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

09-24-2003, 01:41 PM	#26 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Flesh, guess who is paying for it? The students...damn administration keeps rasing tuition each year. I will only have the laptop for one year (1 year lease for $950, with buyout option at $1500 to keep the laptop [ripoff])

09-24-2003, 01:49 PM	#27 (permalink)
tikki Justified Location: West Lafayette, IN	My cell phone has internet, my laptop has internet, and my soon to be new PDA will have internet (Tungsten), but I have never been in a class at Purdue where they would let me use any of those devices in a testing environment. Hell, we cant even use graphic calculators in math classes. __________________ Take notice. Take interest. Take me with you.