Baraka_Guru

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/...-with-woman-42

Basically, what we have here is a teenager forming a romantic relationship with a woman who's about the same age as his mother.

The woman flies out to meet him, and the teenager runs off against his parents' wishes.

Police hunt them down in fears of an abduction, but they are found at a nearby theatre...no charges are laid. It's not illegal for an adult to have a relationship with a 16-year-old.

I'm not sure how well this is sitting with me. This has been fairly prominent news, but I'm wondering how it would have been handled differently if the genders were reversed: a 16-year-old girl and a 42-year-old man. Would this have been handled as a vicious "Internet predator" case? Would the older man be viewed as a "sick monster"? If it were a man, would he have been charged with something?

Bear in mind that the kid had the woman convinced he was 20, but we've heard stories of this before where girls do the same thing to older men.

Is this a valid relationship? Or should the woman be charged with something?

Is there a double standard between older men and women who form relationships with minors?

Parents: how would you react to such a thing if it were your kid?

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genuinegirly

Wow. Er. Ok. The woman involved was under the impression that the 16 year-old was 20. Or at least, that's what she told the police. Were I in her shoes, I would be pretty upset.

Example of something legal being treated as a crime. And all of this media attention is going to bother this family for a while.

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Zeraph

Its a relationship based in fantasy and escape, but then again, many "legit" relationships are. Seems ok to me (as far as law is concerned I mean, they can't/shouldn't do anything) but then I think it should be fine for 16 year olds to have sex anyway. Yeah, there's a double standard. There shouldn't be, but there is.

Craven Morehead

Yeah, I wonder how this would be handled if the genders were reversed, or if the genders were the same.

Probably the shit would hit the fan in either case. I can't believe there's no legal issue here.

Baraka_Guru

That's just it, Craven. What would the legal issue be? I don't know anything about particular laws related to "predation" on or off the Internet. Is that what it would be?

Is it illegal to hookup with a willing teenager (of legal age)? I think the double standard would have garnered more calls for blood if the case were different.

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Xerxys

Misrepresentation in my mind does seem a justifiable mistake.

Rules of equality and anti-discrimination are in place to prevent unjust persecution had the genders been reversed. I do feel, however, if that was the case the girl would have been coerced by someone to say she was forced into the relationship.

This brings to mind what they do to porn stars before filming. They have them take two photographs with the headshot of the girl and the drivers license back and forth and submit them to the authorities. I wonder if there should be a rule in place to make it mandatory for you to pony up your ID if anyone asks you for it just to be sure. Like hey do in clubs.

Daniel_

In England, there is a law that says it's illegal to travel to another country to have sex with someone who would be under the age of consent back in England.

If they have the same law, and assuming the age of consent in TX is 18, this woman would break that law, if it could be shown that she INTENDED to have sex with the boy.

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Lucifer

If the genders were reversed, would anyone be this blase about it? Shit, no! He'd already be in prison and on the sex offender registry!

tumblr_ktrvdv8TCO1qzpwi0o1_400.jpg

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bazkitcase5

haha, great poster

I agree with what Lucifier said... I'd have a hard time believing otherwise

highthief

That's hilarious!

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MNClickChick

Any 40-something, of either gender, who is genuinely interested in a teenager has some serious issues in my book.

That said, in response to the Twilight Moms poster, um, google "Olsen Twins turn 18" and see how many hits you get - plenty of dirty old men everywhere celebrated that day and I doubt they ended up on a sex offender registry.

Bear Cub

Is she hot?



Edit: looked at the photo in the link, complete with double chin. Not hot.

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GreyWolf

If this were a 43 year old man and a 16 year old girl, he would be at the very least put on a sex offenders list. There definitely is a double standard when it comes to older/younger relationships, with older men/younger women being far less acceptable. Ask any guy who's been charged for being with an underage girl, EVEN IF she has a fake ID saying she's legal. Her fraud and complicity in the act is no excuse in most cases.

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lulu_mq

I totally agree. I just cant stand the fact that the mother did nothing about it. Oh, might i also add the fact that a 43 year old married woman should probably be more concerned with her failing MARRIAGE then finding true love with a 16 year old boy on WOW..... and im spent.

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percy

As said, if the roles were reversed, the outcome would be different.

But really this is nothing surprising. Women always have the upper hand in the legal system. It goes with being the gender that is the weaker, more so-called victimized.

In the city I live, in the last few years, 2 women have killed their husbands while they slept. In both cases there was the claim of abuse by the man but no records or witnesses to confirm the accusations. Both women got 1 year house arrest-no jail time.

Last year a woman about 5 minutes from my home killed her newborn. Another instance at the same time had a woman in Edmonton do the same thing. Both woman avoided jail time and got 1-2 years house arrest.

Don't get me started on custody cases.

So yes, gender has everything to do with the outcome, regardless of the act.

But the problem isn't the act or the punishment prescribed. It is the judicial system that is and has been long broken.

As long as we have the hug a criminal, treat criminals with kid gloves approach, and don't punish them accordingly but have the nonsensical approach that rehabilitation works, this will continue.

Glad the kid wasn't killed.

MSD

You have that backwards. Rehabilitation, especially of young offenders, reduces recidivism rates while harsher punishment causes an increase.

GreyWolf

Percy's point is that in a justice system, fairness, objectivity, and consistency must be seen. In most countries, that is not the case.

VERY few people murder twice. But women, at least in the US, have a defense not available to men... the "burning bed" defense. A man who tried to claim he was driven to murder his wife by a genuine belief in a threat to his welfare (NOT an actual act, mind you) would be laughed out of court. Yet women can get away with the "I thought he was going to hurt me, so I hurt him back, first!" excuse.

The killing of an infant in a fit of postpartum confusion is similar, but more defensible since no man will ever actually be in a true postpartum state.

People who espouse rehabilitation, rehabilitation, rehabilitation as the only purpose of a penal system do a grave disservice to the victims, and are sadly off-base for crimes that have virtually a zero repeat rate, such as murder. A number of the instances Percy discusses are not instances where rehabilitation is a factor to consider. You don't need to rehabilitate someone who will never repeat that crime. But... you may be able to stop others from committing the same crime.

The purpose of a penal system is first deterrence, then, if a crime occurs, rehabilitation if possible. Therefore, if a harsher punishment of a specific crime reduces its occurrence, it may be warranted. Common sense should prevail (unfortunately, we all know how uncommon common sense actually is).

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Xerxys

Forgiveness comes with a rod of correction. The purpose of a penal (to PUNISH) system is deterrence, yes and to PUNISH. What percy describes are precedents for pathological liars and psychotic maniacs to take advantage of.

james t kirk

Ah the human condition.

I'm more concerned about this kid playing video games for 14 hours a day rather than going to school than I am him falling in love with a woman who is 43.

There may be hope for him yet.

The desire for love is a strong thing in us and no harm no foul came of this meeting so I vote to let it go.

Charlatan

The kid is having trouble fitting in at school... the publicity this has received isn't going to help that cause.

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james t kirk

Well, this case has just gone from the bizarre to the absurd.

It would seem that the woman in question has been arrested.

IN TEXAS where she's from.

The Canadian Authorities were OK to let it go, the kid's family were OK to let it go, but not in Texas it would seem. They have arrested the woman and charged her.

Man, these Americans really play hard-ball. I'm not quite sure how this is even possible.

Texas woman arrested in Ontario Internet luring case - The Globe and Mail

bazkitcase5

wow... another example of the government trying to live our lives for us

and I like how they use the words "internet luring case"

now granted, I don't know her true intentions, but the laws like this are to protect minors from harm and I'm not sure any harm was inflicted/intended other than what this kid will now go through thanks to the media blow up

The_Jazz

JTK - she was in Texas when she broke Texas laws against this. Perhaps they're afraid that she'll do something similar with someone closer to home and younger. Or they don't believe that "nothing happened". Or they've gotten other complaints about her. Or, you know, she actually did something wrong.

The Canadians were willing to let her go because Canadian laws are different - which is probably why they went there in the first place. But she was in the US when she set this whole thing in motion, and it seems pretty obvious that local law should prevail. Seems like the old "break the law, go to Mexico" gambit, only backwards and northwards.

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Lucifer

She broke the laws of a state where she is a resident. Seems pretty cut and dried to me, I hope they throw the book at her; she obviously needs some professional help.

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bazkitcase5

I don't think there is any doubt that she broke those laws, that part is cut and dry and I don't necessarily agree with their "relationship."

However, you have to consider a portion of the original article:

" "She was under the impression he was 20," said Barrie Police Sgt. Robert McLeod, adding that Andrew apparently lied about his age and Price only became aware of it after being informed by police. "

Now whether you believe that or not is up to you, but based on everything I've read in this thread, is she still guilty of breaking those laws when everything she had access to pointed to him not being a minor?

raging moderate

I would think that if their chat logs (which apparently the kid keeps) shows that he told her that he was 20, she shouldn't be charged.

it is not uncommon anymore to have significant age differences between consenting adult partners. Just look around you, in hollywood, on TV, the newfound popularity of the term "cougar", etc.

It is also not uncommon for people to meet over the internet, hell one of my best friends met is wife over Guild Wars

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The_Jazz

Apparently they've got the chat logs. They've already commented on that. I suspect that those reveal that there's at least a discrepancy with what he says about his age. Even if there's a mention of him saying he's 20, she's got plausible deniability, and I can't imagine a prosecutor filing charges against her on a case that he's going to lose.

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LordEden

I've heard of guys hearing the same thing from girls "Oh i'm 18/21/of legal age to bone in your state" and the court system putting them through the ringer. I had a friend of a friend who I met at a party in college having a problem of bringing a girl home from a club, banging her brains out, then finding out later that she was 16. In the state of NC if you are over 5 years older than the person, it's considered statutory rape (If he/she is under 18). He was 27, so he was brought up on charges for it, he only got away with it because she used a fake ID to get into the club which was 18+. Otherwise he would have been brought up on charges for screwing her even tho she said she was 20 and went to the local college. I always heard that in the eyes of the law, even if she says she is over 18, it doesn't matter, it's still rape (I could be wrong on the law, I'm not a lawyer).

Personally, I hope this woman goes to jail and is put in the sex offender registry. If nothing else for the double-standard of this being tilted a little more to the female side. If the genders were switched the headlines would be "Sexual Predator uses popular MMORPG to try and kidnap young girls for sexual purposes". There would be big exposes on how bad these games are, how horny old men use them for sex, and how they should be shut down "to protect the children". He would be throw in jail and the key would be thrown away. His life would be ruined cause some under-aged girl lied and said she was 20. If horny older men can't do it, then horny old women shouldn't be able to either.

I know when I become a horny old hobbit man I'll do the right thing. Bang horny old women or buy hookers. At least then I know I'm breaking the law before I'm surrounded by cop cars screaming, 'SHE SAID WAS 18, SHE SAID SHE WAS 18'.

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MSD

At 16, I consider it a grey area. He clearly misrepresented himself, and at 16 I think most kids of both genders have matured enough that even if it's irresponsible for a significantly older person to have any sort of relationship with them, it's not very likely to cause psychological or developmental harm like it would when they were a few years younger and certainly not mature enough to handle a relationship with a huge age difference.

In this case, I think it's fair for the court to order the woman to be evaluated psychologically to determine whether she is a threat to children, and the sentence or lack thereof based on that. It would probably also help the boy to be evaluated to assess whether or not any actual harm was done.

Baraka_Guru

*shudder*

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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girldetective

Is this a valid relationship?
I suppose if the people involved thought it was then it was, "but the circumstances are certainly unsavoury, at least from a moral standpoint," said Sgt. Robert Allan, of the Barrie Police. (and girldetective)

Or should the woman be charged with something?
No, because "It's not a crime for a 16-year-old to have a relationship with a 42-year-old..." said Sgt. Robert Allan, of the Barrie Police.

Is there a double standard between older men and women who form relationships with minors?
I think so. I believe it is because it is unusual for a woman to behave in the fashion of what in olden times was called "a dirty old man."

Parents: how would you react to such a thing if it were your kid?
I imagine I would be upset at both parties involved, particularly the woman.

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cellophanedeity

If she was 25 and he was 16 I think that there'd be less concern, even though the legal issues would be exactly the same. Yes, it's unsavoury to think of a 42 year old woman being sexual with someone less than half her age, but if the kid is legal and willing, let them be.

Honestly, I think it would be more traumatizing for the guy to have his "first love" made public in such a condemning nature than it would be for him to have a night of intergenerational debauchery.

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Infinite_Loser

Age is nothing but a number. Anywho, I thought the story was cute, and I think it's absurd that the woman is being charged with anything-- Especially since she thought he was 20.

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james t kirk

I still vote for let it go. Despite all the protestations from the hard asses on here.

The kid is 16. He's old enough to make his own decisions. I remember 16 (a few years ago ) and I was mature enough to know what I wanted and I would have not wanted to have sex with a 42 year old for sure. (Maybe a late 20's would have been about as far as I would have gone.)

I've got to believe that he will not be scarred for life over this. If anything, he's going to be very embarassed having his love life in print (and discussion boards) all over the world. Further, as far as it goes, nothing happened between the two of them, AND she was under the impression that he was 20. Presumably when she saw him, she realized he was not 20 and beat a hastry retreat.

Dragging this through the courts and potentially throwing this woman is just a huge waste of time and money.

Adonis1782

If the woman were a teacher she would have been fired (whether or not the boy was a student of hers). If genders were switched, the 42 year old man would have been charged.

I understand women much better than I understand American morals and laws. We all know how much men understand women.

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