Ask an Atheist - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 08-31-2009, 01:53 PM

Have you ever successfully "saved" someone from a religion to atheism? If so, tell us about it.

Xerxys · 08-31-2009, 02:06 PM

^^ Atheists don't do that. Were normal people.

Willravel · 08-31-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Have you ever successfully "saved" someone from a religion to atheism? If so, tell us about it.

Not intentionally. I don't personally think it would be ethical to be an evangelizing atheist. I'd much prefer people come to it on their own.

I've had more than a few incidents where people find out I'm atheist and start asking me questions. I'm not going to lie (unless it's an emergency), so I generally answer as best I can. For a few people, it seems to have lead them to change their minds. I don't like the idea of taking credit, though. They open the door and walk through.

Xerxys · 08-31-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I don't think there's any atheists who aren't interested in an afterlife. I mean come on, a never ending party of awesomeness? Just because you want something doesn't mean you can just start believing in something to get it. If it worked that way then everyone would have won the lottery.

The reason atheists don't believe in higher beings is because there is no evidence. Not because they want to be anti-mainstream, not because they hate religious people, but because there is simply no fucking evidence whatsoever. If a god came down to Earth one day and stood there before everyone and said, do this and that, follow this book and you will be orgasming for all eternity in my house, you better believe that every atheist in the whole world would be instantly religious.

The problem is that Christianity began thousands of years ago when people believed in magic and sorcerers and shit like that. You were killed if you were gay. Science was so infantile at this stage that the only way to explain and understand the world was to make shit up to make people feel better. It's ok that Jebediah died after eating rotten meat, he's going to heaven. Now we know why rotten meat is dangerous and we avoid it.

The only time humanity turns to religion is when they don't understand something. Look at the most famous scientists in history: they are atheists their whole lives until they can't figure out something. Then they say it must be a higher power. Then 50 or 100 years later, the problem they were stumped on is solved...by humans.

Quoted for fuckin' Genius!

I mean the bible is especially crafted to target those with self esteem issues. It says, if you don't believe in Heysus your a fool. By default, all Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and especially Atheists are fuckin idiots who are just asking to go to hell!

xepherys · 08-31-2009, 11:00 PM

This is a pretty interesting thread. I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I find that religion breads zealotry and intolerance, often without intent. I believe that it's very possible there is an afterlife, or some spiritual existence outside of our mortal coil. In fact, I find it appalling that any intelligent, thinking person could be a gnostic atheist. If science is your basis of belief, then this is further ridiculous.

Ponder this... science (even hard science) is ever changing. Laws of physics are bent or broken. Most scientists consider it good science to hold theory over law, as theories are designed to be built upon. I believe a good scientist believes that what is proven is ONLY proven to the best of our current ability, and is equally likely to be disproven later. This applies to god, God, angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, yeti, et cetera. I'm pretty much agnostic with life in general. What I see may or may not really exist, as may something I do not. I can only live my life in accord with what I see fit.

Maybe I am an agnostic agnostic. I consider myself a realist... or preferably EXTREMELY pragmatic. If God, in the Abrahimic version, exists... it is equally likely that other deity do as well. Frankly, I believe the bible claims, as I read it, that other gods DO exist beside God, Allah, whatever. Consider this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

What purpose would an omnipotent, omniscient being have for jealousy if none were his equal?

At any rate, just my 2¢

MSD · 09-01-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xerxys

^^ Atheists don't do that. Were normal people.

Have you been on the Internet for long? A vocal minority of atheists are every bit as evangelical as religious people who scream at you that you're going to hell.

Iliftrocks · 09-01-2009, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

Have you been on the Internet for long? A vocal minority of atheists are every bit as evangelical as religious people who scream at you that you're going to hell.

I have seen pretty vehemently opinionated atheists, but never an evangelizing one. I know they exist, but you can't open facebook or any forum without being lambasted by evangelizing xtians telling you about hellfire and the weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What I see most often is people wanting evidence or honestly answered questions, of which there are no valid, evidence based answers. And then the questioners are told they are going to hell. A big winner of an answer is the circular "It's true because it's in the bible, and god wrote the bible, cause that's what the bible says...."

I think you might just be taking offense at the opinions stated, and it makes you feel as if you are being oppressed somehow.

Redlemon · 09-01-2009, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

You can see, Pascal's Wager is a ludicrous reason for belief. It's impossible to worship all gods, since many require that you worship no other gods, and it is equally unknowable whether or not there is any god at all as it is unknowable whether or not you are worshipping the correct god.

Pascal's Wager has always bothered me, but I never took the time to puzzle it out. Thanks for this clarification on it.

Baraka_Guru · 09-01-2009, 06:26 AM

Will, these questions will be answered differently atheist to atheist, so I pose this to you rather than atheists in general:

What is the source of your morality? What is your benchmark for determining what is right and wrong? What are your influences in terms of how to live a good life?

Halx · 09-01-2009, 06:43 AM

The source of my "morality" is rooted in my compassion. As humans, we feel empathy - it is part of why we naturally form communities.

SecretMethod70 · 09-01-2009, 07:14 AM

Atheist Revolution: Secular Humanist First, Atheist Second

Quote:

Secular Humanist First, Atheist Second

I am an atheist, but I am an atheist because I am first a secular humanist. Atheism is not my starting point but where secular humanism has led me. I focus this blog on criticizing religion and other forms of irrational belief, with Christian extremism spending the most time in my crosshairs. However, it is time to give secular humanism more of the attention it deserves.

What is Secular Humanism?

Secular Humanism is much broader than atheism and entails many things that atheism does not. This will be easy to grasp if you remember that atheism refers to nothing more than the lack of belief in any sort of gods. So what is secular humanism?

Start with humanism itself. According to Paul Kurtz, "Humanism is an ethical, scientific, and philosophical outlook" which can be traced "back to the philosophers and poets of ancient Greece and Rome, Confucian China, and the Charvaka movement in classical India." Humanism is an optimistic stance, entailing "confidence in the power of human beings to solve their own problems and conquer uncharted frontiers." We humanists believe that reason, science, and technology can benefit humanity and seek to promote their growth.

Secular humanism also entails scientific naturalism. That is, secular humanists are naturalists who reject the existence spiritual/supernatural entities because there is no evidence for any such entities. We maintain that reason is the path to knowledge and that faith has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge. It is not a different way of knowing because it is not a way of knowing at all - it has no bearing on knowledge.

Ethically, secular humanism has something important to offer. Our ethics are derived from reason rather than superstition. We recognize that some of the core ethical precepts (e.g., the "Golden Rule") predate Christianity, and we do not see this as a problem. We apply reason and science in evaluating and shaping our vales.

In the political realm, secular humanists seek to foster democracy. We value human rights and believe that such rights apply to all humans. Thus, we are committed to humanity and are unlikely to get caught up in the idiocy of patriotism to the point that it blinds us to global issues. We strive to promote human dignity and respect, and we find that inherently divisive religious dogma is more of a hindrance here than an asset.

Why Does Secular Humanism Come First?

If you ask me why I am an atheist, the core of any response I will give you is that my application of reason and science gives me no reason whatsoever to accept the theistic belief claim (i.e., that any sort of god or gods exist). But why do I believe that reason and science are valid ways of acquiring knowledge while blind faith is not? This takes us to secular humanism.

Even if I respond by telling you that I do not believe because belief is harmful, skillful questioning will inevitably lead me to stating the value that I believe that it is healthier to embrace reality rather than superstition. Again, this is secular humanism. I am an atheist because I am a secular humanist. Applying the principles of secular humanism leads me to atheism.

This does not diminish the value of atheism in any way, however, it does highlight the need for recognition that atheism alone is not a sufficient worldview. In fact, it really isn't a worldview or a belief system at all. Secular humanism is a belief system and a worldview, one that includes atheism.

The Real Value of Secular Humanism

Secular humanism is optimistic, but this optimism is rooted in reality. Unlike the naive optimism associated with some religions, secular humanists are optimistic about human capabilities and realize that the responsibility rests solely with us to improve our world. We wait for no rapture, nirvana, or 72 virgins (not that I'd turn down 72 virgins, mind you). We take on the problems facing humanity ourselves and realize that our successes or failures will determine the outcome. This is both humbling and empowering at the same time.

We have reason and science on our side. We have common sense and education on our side. We are secular because this is where reason takes us. We welcome an interaction between science and values and have no need to constrain progress or discriminate against others based on the ambiguous words in some ancient book. We are vibrant, passionate, and living in harmony with reality. Secular humanism is to be celebrated. It is time to get the word out.

To learn more about secular humanism, visit the Council for Secular Humanism or the American Humanist Association.

Baraka_Guru · 09-01-2009, 07:22 AM

I've considered myself a secular humanist for a while now. What's interesting is that much of my morality is actually based on Judeo-Christian values intuitively (via the dominant culture) and Buddhist values by design (adult exploration of morality).

Willravel · 09-01-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

What is the source of your morality?

Three things:
1) Millions of years of social development. Evolutionary or biological altruism developed because humans are a social species and cooperation was absolutely necessary for the survival of the species. It took more than one cave-man to take down a mammoth or to fight off a saber-tooth tiger. Because our numbers were so important, it was necessary for survival to help other members of your tribe or roving band to also survive.
2) The social contract. A part of living in society means that everyone has necessary social rules that we observe in order to maintain order. If you hurt someone or steal from someone, you breach the social rules and face real consequences.
3) "Be the change you want to see in the world" A principle I discovered that really appealed to me was a Mahatma Gandhi quote. Assuming my own standards are acceptable, modeling those standards to other people spreads a better example of the social contract.
Also, it makes me happy to be "good".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

What is your benchmark for determining what is right and wrong?

There are common moral rules for most human civilizations. Do unto others, don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc., are all fairly common parts of human social contracts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

What are your influences in terms of how to live a good life?

Innately, it's the morality and ethics that are built in, but consciously it's pleasurable. I like helping people and being good.

Strange Famous · 09-01-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Pascal's Wager has always bothered me, but I never took the time to puzzle it out. Thanks for this clarification on it.

Have you ever heard of "Broadhurts' wager"?

Basically that it a waste of time to follow a religious life, because if God does exist He would surely forgive you (being a good and just God), and if He
does not the religious life means you have denied yourself many base pleasures.

m0rpheus · 09-01-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Have you ever successfully "saved" someone from a religion to atheism? If so, tell us about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xerxys

^^ Atheists don't do that. Were normal people.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't do that. I really truly hate (and was reminded by the woman who knocked on my door this morning) when people try to save my poor confused soul, so it would be pretty hypocritical of me to do the reverse now wouldn't it?

Redlemon · 09-02-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Have you ever heard of "Broadhurts' wager"?

Basically that it a waste of time to follow a religious life, because if God does exist He would surely forgive you (being a good and just God), and if He
does not the religious life means you have denied yourself many base pleasures.

Never heard of it, thanks!

08-31-2009, 01:53 PM	#41 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Have you ever successfully "saved" someone from a religion to atheism? If so, tell us about it. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-01-2009, 06:26 AM	#49 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Will, these questions will be answered differently atheist to atheist, so I pose this to you rather than atheists in general: What is the source of your morality? What is your benchmark for determining what is right and wrong? What are your influences in terms of how to live a good life? __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

09-01-2009, 06:43 AM	#50 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	The source of my "morality" is rooted in my compassion. As humans, we feel empathy - it is part of why we naturally form communities. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-01-2009, 07:22 AM	#52 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I've considered myself a secular humanist for a while now. What's interesting is that much of my morality is actually based on Judeo-Christian values intuitively (via the dominant culture) and Buddhist values by design (adult exploration of morality). __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

08-31-2009, 02:06 PM	#42 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	^^ Atheists don't do that. Were normal people.