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View Poll Results: Do you believe she actually wasn't under the influence of any drugs or alcohol? | |||
Yes, she wasn't under the influence of alcohol or drugs. IMHO | 2 | 6.45% | |
No, she must have been wasted. IMHO | 15 | 48.39% | |
Dunno, not enough information. | 14 | 45.16% | |
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll |
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08-07-2009, 11:44 AM | #1 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Reichstag
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Mother who caused head on collision that killed 8...
I don't know if its big news all over the country but its pretty big in NY an NJ...
But it turns out the mother that was driving her vehicle the wrong way on a highway that crashed into another vehicle headon and killed a total of 8 people had a .19% blood alcohol content, had injested Pot, and had an additional 6 ounces of volka in her stomach. Her family is denying those facts, and are asking for a private autopsy. For those of you that don't know. She drove 2 miles the wrong way on a busy highway before causing the collision. She killed her daughter three nieces and three men in another vehicle, her 5 year old son is in bad shape at the hospital. But does anyway actually believe that she wasnt under the influence of drugs and alcohol?
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08-07-2009, 11:51 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Forming
Location: ....a state of pure inebriation.
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She had to have been on something...
Silly intoxicated drivers.
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08-07-2009, 11:57 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
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How is this a matter of opinion?
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08-07-2009, 12:13 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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I just drove that stretch of highway last night. It's not an easy drive since the road actually winds and is very narror in many places.
I'm actually wondering if it was more a suicide than anything else.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
08-07-2009, 12:15 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: France
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Well if they tested her BAC to .19, and there's nobody giving us a reason to believe otherwise, why should I believe otherwise? I get that it must be hard for her family to accept that their relative could be responsible for so many deaths, but sometimes you gotta face the facts: she drank a shitload, and drove. It was stupid, and people died.
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08-07-2009, 12:54 PM | #8 (permalink) |
I'm a family man - I run a family business.
Location: Wilson, NC
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yeah I don't have enough info to make a decision. I am scientific by nature so let's see what the second autopsy shows. either way this is terrible. I've seen people do some pretty stupid stuff without being under the influence so I say its at least plausible.
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08-07-2009, 01:02 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
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08-07-2009, 07:25 PM | #10 (permalink) |
Leaning against the -Sun-
Super Moderator
Location: on the other side
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I am still wondering how two people drove the wrong way on the same road on the same day. I find that very strange. I also find it hard to believe she could have been that intoxicated. I smell a botched job with the autopsy.
Even so I voted I dunno, because I like to be informed rather than mouth off.
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Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918 |
08-08-2009, 04:51 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Reichstag
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her family is claiming all sorts of things one example was that she had a tooth apsess....if it turns out that she was an alcoholic and the family had knowledge that she drove on a regular basis under the influence...is there anything criminally they could be held liable for...i dont think so...but civilily they would be in trouble...
its hard to believe that they would let her drive with the children in the car....but i deal with this all the time...in my state dwi is a traffic offense...but if theres a juvenile in the car there is a criminal charge that goes with it. and ive seen it used more than you would think and mostly having to do with crashes. its such a tragedy for all involved and i will continue to follow the story...
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"....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks |
08-08-2009, 05:01 AM | #14 (permalink) |
Leaning against the -Sun-
Super Moderator
Location: on the other side
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I thought this was common knowledge. Here:
"It was the second wrong-way crash on the parkway on Sunday. Five people were injured in an early morning collision between two vehicles, one of which was headed northbound in the southbound lanes. That accident occurred about 20 miles north of the later incident." Link to Article I find this strange. If it's so hard to get on a highway going in the worng direction, how did two people do it on the same road in one day?
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Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918 |
08-08-2009, 05:06 AM | #15 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Thanks. I know nothing about this other than what has been posted here.
They should probably look into what may be causing the confusion, but I don't see why the odd occurrence of two in one day makes it any less likely the autopsy is correct.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
08-08-2009, 05:31 AM | #16 (permalink) |
Delicious
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Well, If I had been in a wreck and the autopsy revealed that I had a BAC of 1.9 my family would be denying it too because I don't drink that much EVER and my family knows that not only would I ever not get that drunk, I wouldn't drive. I would assume the reason her family is denying it is because it it is unusual behavior.
I think suicide is the the cause. She probably heard about the accident and said fuck it, That's how I'm going out. She got liquored up and did it. That would explain the two crashed in one day..
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08-08-2009, 05:56 AM | #17 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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It's also possible her family simply doesn't want to believe it.
One problem I have with the suicide theory is that you often hear about parents taking their kids with them, but her nieces? That just seems odd to me, though granted it's a minor detail. The primary issue here, though, is whether she was really that intoxicated, which I have yet to see any reason not to believe. If the autopsy says it, it's likely true, suicide or not.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
08-08-2009, 08:24 AM | #20 (permalink) |
Broken Arrow
Location: US
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Maybe she was fucking crazy. Maybe she snapped that day. Maybe she was drunk, high and snapped.
Either way she did it, and IMO after that many deaths, she should go too. If it was my daughter she killed, I'd kill her myself, family or not.
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08-08-2009, 09:28 AM | #21 (permalink) |
Eponymous
Location: Central Central Florida
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I'll wait for the facts, thank you.
I'm glad you guys aren't going to be on the jury when my hearing comes up.
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08-08-2009, 09:36 AM | #22 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: France
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We're not saying that if this were a court, we wouldn't want to see an autopsy report, and take a look at all the available evidence.
Only that in this case, from where we're standing, with the information we have all pointing towards intoxication, and the only voice going against that is the family (understandable), there's no reason not to believe it. Plus, she's already dead, not much we could do in a court of law.
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08-08-2009, 10:00 AM | #23 (permalink) |
Eponymous
Location: Central Central Florida
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Understood. But I also know that things aren't always what they appear to be. I guess I'm not one for speculation when it comes to potential lifelong consequences for someone.
There are no real facts yet, as far as I'm concerned. Deciding what we think at this point means we're buying into whatever hype is broadcast our way and that's not something I'm feeling good about these days. Besides, that could be your mom, sister, wife, daughter. I'm just sayin' ...
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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain |
08-08-2009, 10:33 AM | #24 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
But it is very hard to drive the wrong way for any strecth there, but easy to accidently do since the onramps and offramps are very short and not well signed.
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08-08-2009, 10:55 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: France
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How is a measured BAC not a fact?
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08-08-2009, 03:28 PM | #29 (permalink) |
Eponymous
Location: Central Central Florida
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When was the breathalyzer last calibrated? Who did the reading? Could it have been misread, misprinted or misunderstood.
Or better yet, ask an attorney.
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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain |
08-08-2009, 03:54 PM | #30 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Greater Harrisburg Area
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I was under the impression the woman was a DoA, meaning the BAC was determined from blood drawn by an ME during an autopsy.
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08-08-2009, 03:54 PM | #31 (permalink) | |
President Rick
Location: location location
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Quote:
P.S. Lawyers have very little to do with truth and facts (if they exist).
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08-08-2009, 04:00 PM | #32 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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I don't know if she was DoA, but it seems pretty likely, especially after seeing the pictures. I highly doubt the BAC was determined by breathalyzer. The fact the family wants an independent autopsy also indicates the BAC was determined based on the autopsy, in which case there is very little room for doubt.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
08-08-2009, 04:22 PM | #33 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
CTV.ca | Charles Smith erred in 20 autopsies: review Quote:
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Si vis pacem parabellum. |
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08-08-2009, 04:30 PM | #34 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Last I checked this was in a different country with a different coroner.
That's like saying we need multiple autopsies on every body, just to be sure. That a rare few coroners are corrupt, or inept, says nothing of the likelihood that this coroner, like most others, is doing his or her job with the appropriate expertise.
__________________
Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
08-08-2009, 04:43 PM | #35 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Given the paucity of information in the OP and subsequent posted link, and the relationship of the "perpetrator" to the victims, I'd sure be happy to see a lot more information and can delay the public flogging until that is available.
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Si vis pacem parabellum. |
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08-08-2009, 05:11 PM | #36 (permalink) |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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This Fark headline is appropriate here:
Billy Mays didn't use cocaine, David Carradine wasn't a kinky masturbator, and grieving families in denial don't seem to understand forensic evidence
__________________
Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling |
08-08-2009, 05:22 PM | #37 (permalink) |
Eponymous
Location: Central Central Florida
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Yeah, pretty much as far as legal cases go. Does anyone ever know the truth other than those involved? The legal system's designed to hear evidence, circumstantial and factual but verdict is based on weighing evidence for both sides. Verdicts and convictions aren't totally based on facts, they're based on supposed preponderance of evidence.
The OP asked if we believe she was under the influence. My opinion, although different from yours, is that at this point I'm not quite ready to prosecute. I wasn't implying that lawyers have anything to do with facts, only that most would be able to cite multiple cases where evidence was mishandled or botched. Besides, you don't have to be drunk to accidentally get on the exit ramp instead of the entrance ramp.
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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain Last edited by jewels; 08-08-2009 at 05:31 PM.. |
08-08-2009, 07:31 PM | #38 (permalink) | ||
President Rick
Location: location location
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Quote:
Quote:
Question for Cyn: On that stretch of road is it possible to cross the median to the other lanes? And is there a shoulder?
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08-08-2009, 09:20 PM | #39 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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yes there are places to cross over to the other side from time to time. It's a parkway, which Robert Moses designed to be less about getting from point A to point B and more about having a pretty drive. There are trees and grass dividing the 2 directions. Most of the parkways are 2 lanes in each direction. No commercial vehicles are allowed, nor trucks.
This isn't the parkway, but it is a good example of what it looks like for parts of it. USA: Parkways - SkyscraperCity Quote:
This is a stretch of the Taconic
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-09-2009, 04:49 AM | #40 (permalink) | |
Eponymous
Location: Central Central Florida
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Quote:
I think that her state of sobriety is a reasonable question, too.
__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain |
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Tags |
caused, collision, head, killed, mother |
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