Mother who caused head on collision that killed 8... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

G5_Todd · 08-07-2009, 11:44 AM

I don't know if its big news all over the country but its pretty big in NY an NJ...

But it turns out the mother that was driving her vehicle the wrong way on a highway that crashed into another vehicle headon and killed a total of 8 people had a .19% blood alcohol content, had injested Pot, and had an additional 6 ounces of volka in her stomach.

Her family is denying those facts, and are asking for a private autopsy. For those of you that don't know. She drove 2 miles the wrong way on a busy highway before causing the collision. She killed her daughter three nieces and three men in another vehicle, her 5 year old son is in bad shape at the hospital.

But does anyway actually believe that she wasnt under the influence of drugs and alcohol?

Plan9 · 08-07-2009, 11:47 AM

Yeah, how could she not have been wasted?

Somebody is playing CYA here.

...

This tragedy is up there with the "Pretty women hate me!" guy that blasted the zumba class in PA.

Shit happens.

Punk.of.Ages · 08-07-2009, 11:51 AM

She had to have been on something...

Silly intoxicated drivers.

Halx · 08-07-2009, 11:57 AM

How is this a matter of opinion?

Xerxys · 08-07-2009, 11:59 AM

^^ Good question ...

I think she was wasted to drive in the wrong direction on highways ... I mean on ramps even look different! You had to be on something or seriously out of it to do that ...

Cynthetiq · 08-07-2009, 12:13 PM

I just drove that stretch of highway last night. It's not an easy drive since the road actually winds and is very narror in many places.

I'm actually wondering if it was more a suicide than anything else.

biznatch · 08-07-2009, 12:15 PM

Well if they tested her BAC to .19, and there's nobody giving us a reason to believe otherwise, why should I believe otherwise? I get that it must be hard for her family to accept that their relative could be responsible for so many deaths, but sometimes you gotta face the facts: she drank a shitload, and drove. It was stupid, and people died.

Redjake · 08-07-2009, 12:54 PM

yeah I don't have enough info to make a decision. I am scientific by nature so let's see what the second autopsy shows. either way this is terrible. I've seen people do some pretty stupid stuff without being under the influence so I say its at least plausible.

SecretMethod70 · 08-07-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biznatch

Well if they tested her BAC to .19, and there's nobody giving us a reason to believe otherwise, why should I believe otherwise? I get that it must be hard for her family to accept that their relative could be responsible for so many deaths, but sometimes you gotta face the facts: she drank a shitload, and drove. It was stupid, and people died.

We have a winner!

little_tippler · 08-07-2009, 07:25 PM

I am still wondering how two people drove the wrong way on the same road on the same day. I find that very strange. I also find it hard to believe she could have been that intoxicated. I smell a botched job with the autopsy.

Even so I voted I dunno, because I like to be informed rather than mouth off.

SecretMethod70 · 08-07-2009, 07:30 PM

Two people? Is there a detail I'm missing here?

Willravel · 08-07-2009, 07:31 PM

Truth is not a matter of popular opinion.

G5_Todd · 08-08-2009, 04:51 AM

her family is claiming all sorts of things one example was that she had a tooth apsess....if it turns out that she was an alcoholic and the family had knowledge that she drove on a regular basis under the influence...is there anything criminally they could be held liable for...i dont think so...but civilily they would be in trouble...

its hard to believe that they would let her drive with the children in the car....but i deal with this all the time...in my state dwi is a traffic offense...but if theres a juvenile in the car there is a criminal charge that goes with it. and ive seen it used more than you would think and mostly having to do with crashes.

its such a tragedy for all involved and i will continue to follow the story...

little_tippler · 08-08-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Two people? Is there a detail I'm missing here?

I thought this was common knowledge. Here:

"It was the second wrong-way crash on the parkway on Sunday. Five people were injured in an early morning collision between two vehicles, one of which was headed northbound in the southbound lanes. That accident occurred about 20 miles north of the later incident."

Link to Article

I find this strange. If it's so hard to get on a highway going in the worng direction, how did two people do it on the same road in one day?

SecretMethod70 · 08-08-2009, 05:06 AM

Thanks. I know nothing about this other than what has been posted here.

They should probably look into what may be causing the confusion, but I don't see why the odd occurrence of two in one day makes it any less likely the autopsy is correct.

Reese · 08-08-2009, 05:31 AM

Well, If I had been in a wreck and the autopsy revealed that I had a BAC of 1.9 my family would be denying it too because I don't drink that much EVER and my family knows that not only would I ever not get that drunk, I wouldn't drive. I would assume the reason her family is denying it is because it it is unusual behavior.

I think suicide is the the cause. She probably heard about the accident and said fuck it, That's how I'm going out. She got liquored up and did it. That would explain the two crashed in one day..

SecretMethod70 · 08-08-2009, 05:56 AM

It's also possible her family simply doesn't want to believe it.

One problem I have with the suicide theory is that you often hear about parents taking their kids with them, but her nieces? That just seems odd to me, though granted it's a minor detail.

The primary issue here, though, is whether she was really that intoxicated, which I have yet to see any reason not to believe. If the autopsy says it, it's likely true, suicide or not.

wing870 · 08-08-2009, 07:55 AM

It just so sad and senseless.

Meathed · 08-08-2009, 08:03 AM

she was under the influence of life, wunnit she.
120,000 more babies born in the last 5 minutes....zzzzz

Vigilante · 08-08-2009, 08:24 AM

Maybe she was fucking crazy. Maybe she snapped that day. Maybe she was drunk, high and snapped.

Either way she did it, and IMO after that many deaths, she should go too.

If it was my daughter she killed, I'd kill her myself, family or not.

jewels · 08-08-2009, 09:28 AM

I'll wait for the facts, thank you.

I'm glad you guys aren't going to be on the jury when my hearing comes up.

biznatch · 08-08-2009, 09:36 AM

We're not saying that if this were a court, we wouldn't want to see an autopsy report, and take a look at all the available evidence.
Only that in this case, from where we're standing, with the information we have all pointing towards intoxication, and the only voice going against that is the family (understandable), there's no reason not to believe it.
Plus, she's already dead, not much we could do in a court of law.

jewels · 08-08-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biznatch

We're not saying that if this were a court

Understood. But I also know that things aren't always what they appear to be. I guess I'm not one for speculation when it comes to potential lifelong consequences for someone.

There are no real facts yet, as far as I'm concerned. Deciding what we think at this point means we're buying into whatever hype is broadcast our way and that's not something I'm feeling good about these days.

Besides, that could be your mom, sister, wife, daughter. I'm just sayin' ...

Cynthetiq · 08-08-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little_tippler

I thought this was common knowledge. Here:

"It was the second wrong-way crash on the parkway on Sunday. Five people were injured in an early morning collision between two vehicles, one of which was headed northbound in the southbound lanes. That accident occurred about 20 miles north of the later incident."

Link to Article

I find this strange. If it's so hard to get on a highway going in the worng direction, how did two people do it on the same road in one day?

It's hard to say since 20 miles on that stretch of highway is vastly different from one end to the other.

But it is very hard to drive the wrong way for any strecth there, but easy to accidently do since the onramps and offramps are very short and not well signed.

biznatch · 08-08-2009, 10:55 AM

How is a measured BAC not a fact?

Meathed · 08-08-2009, 11:55 AM

have current eastern seaboard new york metropolitan area-airborne waste dump fumes or armageddon-level, area 51 mercury levels in her home water supply been ruled out completely as cause of accident at this time?

blahblah454 · 08-08-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Truth is not a matter of popular opinion.

Ding ding ding!!

I voted wrong, now I feel like an idiot. I picked "Yes, yada yada yada" thinking it was that yes she was on drugs, not "yes she is not on drugs". tricky tricky wording!

SecretMethod70 · 08-08-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biznatch

How is a measured BAC not a fact?

Indeed.

jewels · 08-08-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biznatch

How is a measured BAC not a fact?

When was the breathalyzer last calibrated? Who did the reading? Could it have been misread, misprinted or misunderstood.

Or better yet, ask an attorney.

Hektore · 08-08-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels

When was the breathalyzer last calibrated? Who did the reading? Could it have been misread, misprinted or misunderstood.

Or better yet, ask an attorney.

I was under the impression the woman was a DoA, meaning the BAC was determined from blood drawn by an ME during an autopsy.

mrklixx · 08-08-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels

When was the breathalyzer last calibrated? Who did the reading? Could it have been misread, misprinted or misunderstood.

Or better yet, ask an attorney.

So, are you saying there are no such things as facts?

P.S. Lawyers have very little to do with truth and facts (if they exist).

SecretMethod70 · 08-08-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hektore

I was under the impression the woman was a DoA, meaning the BAC was determined from blood drawn by an ME during an autopsy.

I don't know if she was DoA, but it seems pretty likely, especially after seeing the pictures. I highly doubt the BAC was determined by breathalyzer. The fact the family wants an independent autopsy also indicates the BAC was determined based on the autopsy, in which case there is very little room for doubt.

highthief · 08-08-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

The fact the family wants an independent autopsy also indicates the BAC was determined based on the autopsy, in which case there is very little room for doubt.

Boatloads of room for doubt, m'dear:

CTV.ca | Charles Smith erred in 20 autopsies: review

Quote:

Charles Smith erred in 20 autopsies: review
Updated Thu. Apr. 19 2007 6:21 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A review of discredited pathologist Charles Smith has found he made errors in 20 child autopsies, 13 of them resulting in criminal charges.

"In 20 cases, the reviewers expressed concerns with respect to the conclusions reached by Dr. Smith or with a significant fact arising from the work that he did," Ontario Chief Coroner Dr. Barry McLellan told reporters Thursday.

Of that number, 13 cases had resulted in an individual's "restriction of liberty," and one person is still behind bars. Those cases will now be reviewed by Crown and defence lawyers.

Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant called the errors an "unspeakable tragedy" and said he will possibly call for a full public inquiry.

"This is not supposed to happen," he said. "It should not have happened, it's unacceptable that it happened, it's wrong.

Five forensic pathologists conducted the review of Smith's work.

McLellan apologized to the families of deceased children whose autopsies were involved in the review.

"Wherever possible, families were contacted directly prior to the start of the review, to inform them that the death of their child was included in the review," he said.

"Wherever possible counsel, who represented parties in matters arising from the coroner's investigation were also contacted.

"I sincerely regret the fact that some families who had moved on or who were in the process of moving on with their lives, following the death of their child, may have been subjected to any additional stress as a result of the process."

The Globe and Mail reports Smith mistakenly alleged foul play in the deaths of children dating back to 1991, when in fact they may have died of natural causes.

In many cases, people -- including the parents of the children involved -- ended up being convicted in their children's deaths.

William Mullins-Johnson of Sault Ste. Marie, spent 12 years in prison after he was wrongfully accused of murdering his four-year-old niece, Valin Johnson.

Smith had apparently lost evidence showing Valin died of natural causes.

Mullins-Johnson was released from custody last year. He spoke Thursday about his tragic ordeal.

"I'm still dealing with the stigma of the conviction, the stigma of the accusation itself," he said.

"Something was made out of nothing and my life was taken from me. The things I wanted to do with my life - just the opportunities, in terms of education, career, relationships - has been dramatically crippled."

In June 2005, an independent review was ordered into 45 of the autopsies Smith performed, after several cases he had worked on collapsed. McLellan revealed the results of that review today.

Smith resigned as chief pediatric pathologist at Toronto's Hospital for Sick Children two years ago, and took an appointment with the Saskatoon Regional Health Authority. He was later fired.But last year, an appeals tribunal ruled he was unfairly terminated.

Among the 45 cases that were reviewed:

Sharon, a seven-year-old girl in Kingston, Ont. who Smith said had been stabbed to death. Charged with murder, the girl's mother spent two years in jail before several other experts concluded her daughter was mauled by a pit bull.

Jenna, a 21-month-old girl in Peterborough, Ont. who Smith said died of blunt trauma inflicted when she was home alone with her mother. Signs of sexual abuse were never pursued, and evidence that could have exonerated the baby's mother of a murder charge was mishandled.

At least one lawsuit is in progress. That case involves the Kingston mother charged in her daughter's death.

Smith was involved in more than 1,000 autopsies for the Ontario Office of the Chief Coroner.

SecretMethod70 · 08-08-2009, 04:30 PM

Last I checked this was in a different country with a different coroner.

That's like saying we need multiple autopsies on every body, just to be sure. That a rare few coroners are corrupt, or inept, says nothing of the likelihood that this coroner, like most others, is doing his or her job with the appropriate expertise.

highthief · 08-08-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Last I checked this was in a different country with a different coroner.

That's like saying we need multiple autopsies on every body, just to be sure. That a rare few coroners are corrupt, or inept, says nothing of the likelihood that this coroner, like most others, is doing his or her job with the appropriate expertise.

No one is saying he/she isn't - but people deserve the benefit of the doubt, and the instance quoted is hardly the only time a coroner has been guilty of making mistakes or fudging the facts. It's even a recurring Law & Order plotline!

Given the paucity of information in the OP and subsequent posted link, and the relationship of the "perpetrator" to the victims, I'd sure be happy to see a lot more information and can delay the public flogging until that is available.

SecretMethod70 · 08-08-2009, 05:11 PM

This Fark headline is appropriate here:

Billy Mays didn't use cocaine, David Carradine wasn't a kinky masturbator, and grieving families in denial don't seem to understand forensic evidence

jewels · 08-08-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrklixx

So, are you saying there are no such things as facts?

Yeah, pretty much as far as legal cases go. Does anyone ever know the truth other than those involved? The legal system's designed to hear evidence, circumstantial and factual but verdict is based on weighing evidence for both sides. Verdicts and convictions aren't totally based on facts, they're based on supposed preponderance of evidence.

The OP asked if we believe she was under the influence. My opinion, although different from yours, is that at this point I'm not quite ready to prosecute.

I wasn't implying that lawyers have anything to do with facts, only that most would be able to cite multiple cases where evidence was mishandled or botched. Besides, you don't have to be drunk to accidentally get on the exit ramp instead of the entrance ramp.

mrklixx · 08-08-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels

The OP asked if we believe she was under the influence. My opinion, although different from yours, is that at this point I'm not quite ready to prosecute.

I'd just like to point out that I have not actually stated an opinion about this case. I merely asked a clarifying question about your statement.

Quote:

you don't have to be drunk to accidentally get on the exit ramp instead of the entrance ramp.

However, if she indeed drove 2 miles the wrong way, and passed a single "exit". backward road sign, or car that she didn't hit, then state of sobriety may be a reasonable question.

Question for Cyn: On that stretch of road is it possible to cross the median to the other lanes? And is there a shoulder?

Cynthetiq · 08-08-2009, 09:20 PM

yes there are places to cross over to the other side from time to time. It's a parkway, which Robert Moses designed to be less about getting from point A to point B and more about having a pretty drive. There are trees and grass dividing the 2 directions. Most of the parkways are 2 lanes in each direction. No commercial vehicles are allowed, nor trucks.

This isn't the parkway, but it is a good example of what it looks like for parts of it.

USA: Parkways - SkyscraperCity

Quote:

The Taconic State Parkway runs from NYC (where it is the Bronx River Parkway) northward to the New York State Thruway - Berkshire Extension (I-90) in the Albany area along a ridge east of the Hudson River. I've driven its entire length and yes, it is a GORGEOUS drive, although the part south of I-84 can be a bit of a thrill ride at times.

This is a stretch of the Taconic

jewels · 08-09-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrklixx

However, if she indeed drove 2 miles the wrong way, and passed a single "exit". backward road sign, or car that she didn't hit, then state of sobriety may be a reasonable question.

Although you still haven't stated your opinion in answer to the OP, it's not difficult to read between the lines.

I think that her state of sobriety is a reasonable question, too.

View Poll Results: Do you believe she actually wasn't under the influence of any drugs or alcohol?
Yes, she wasn't under the influence of alcohol or drugs. IMHO	2	6.45%
No, she must have been wasted. IMHO	15	48.39%
Dunno, not enough information.	14	45.16%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

08-07-2009, 11:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
G5_Todd Junkie Location: Reichstag	Mother who caused head on collision that killed 8... I don't know if its big news all over the country but its pretty big in NY an NJ... But it turns out the mother that was driving her vehicle the wrong way on a highway that crashed into another vehicle headon and killed a total of 8 people had a .19% blood alcohol content, had injested Pot, and had an additional 6 ounces of volka in her stomach. Her family is denying those facts, and are asking for a private autopsy. For those of you that don't know. She drove 2 miles the wrong way on a busy highway before causing the collision. She killed her daughter three nieces and three men in another vehicle, her 5 year old son is in bad shape at the hospital. But does anyway actually believe that she wasnt under the influence of drugs and alcohol? __________________ "....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks

08-07-2009, 11:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeah, how could she not have been wasted? Somebody is playing CYA here. ... This tragedy is up there with the "Pretty women hate me!" guy that blasted the zumba class in PA. Shit happens. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

08-07-2009, 11:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
Punk.of.Ages Forming Location: ....a state of pure inebriation.	She had to have been on something... Silly intoxicated drivers. __________________ "The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager "Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

08-07-2009, 11:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	How is this a matter of opinion? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

08-07-2009, 11:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	^^ Good question ... I think she was wasted to drive in the wrong direction on highways ... I mean on ramps even look different! You had to be on something or seriously out of it to do that ...

08-07-2009, 12:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I just drove that stretch of highway last night. It's not an easy drive since the road actually winds and is very narror in many places. I'm actually wondering if it was more a suicide than anything else. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-07-2009, 12:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	Well if they tested her BAC to .19, and there's nobody giving us a reason to believe otherwise, why should I believe otherwise? I get that it must be hard for her family to accept that their relative could be responsible for so many deaths, but sometimes you gotta face the facts: she drank a shitload, and drove. It was stupid, and people died. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

08-07-2009, 12:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	yeah I don't have enough info to make a decision. I am scientific by nature so let's see what the second autopsy shows. either way this is terrible. I've seen people do some pretty stupid stuff without being under the influence so I say its at least plausible.

08-07-2009, 07:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	I am still wondering how two people drove the wrong way on the same road on the same day. I find that very strange. I also find it hard to believe she could have been that intoxicated. I smell a botched job with the autopsy. Even so I voted I dunno, because I like to be informed rather than mouth off. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

08-07-2009, 07:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Two people? Is there a detail I'm missing here? __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

08-07-2009, 07:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Truth is not a matter of popular opinion.

08-08-2009, 04:51 AM	#13 (permalink)
G5_Todd Junkie Location: Reichstag	her family is claiming all sorts of things one example was that she had a tooth apsess....if it turns out that she was an alcoholic and the family had knowledge that she drove on a regular basis under the influence...is there anything criminally they could be held liable for...i dont think so...but civilily they would be in trouble... its hard to believe that they would let her drive with the children in the car....but i deal with this all the time...in my state dwi is a traffic offense...but if theres a juvenile in the car there is a criminal charge that goes with it. and ive seen it used more than you would think and mostly having to do with crashes. its such a tragedy for all involved and i will continue to follow the story... __________________ "....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks

08-08-2009, 05:06 AM	#15 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Thanks. I know nothing about this other than what has been posted here. They should probably look into what may be causing the confusion, but I don't see why the odd occurrence of two in one day makes it any less likely the autopsy is correct. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

08-08-2009, 05:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	Well, If I had been in a wreck and the autopsy revealed that I had a BAC of 1.9 my family would be denying it too because I don't drink that much EVER and my family knows that not only would I ever not get that drunk, I wouldn't drive. I would assume the reason her family is denying it is because it it is unusual behavior. I think suicide is the the cause. She probably heard about the accident and said fuck it, That's how I'm going out. She got liquored up and did it. That would explain the two crashed in one day.. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

08-08-2009, 05:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	It's also possible her family simply doesn't want to believe it. One problem I have with the suicide theory is that you often hear about parents taking their kids with them, but her nieces? That just seems odd to me, though granted it's a minor detail. The primary issue here, though, is whether she was really that intoxicated, which I have yet to see any reason not to believe. If the autopsy says it, it's likely true, suicide or not. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

08-08-2009, 07:55 AM	#18 (permalink)
wing870 Upright	It just so sad and senseless.

08-08-2009, 08:03 AM	#19 (permalink)
Meathed Upright	she was under the influence of life, wunnit she. 120,000 more babies born in the last 5 minutes....zzzzz

08-08-2009, 08:24 AM	#20 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	Maybe she was fucking crazy. Maybe she snapped that day. Maybe she was drunk, high and snapped. Either way she did it, and IMO after that many deaths, she should go too. If it was my daughter she killed, I'd kill her myself, family or not. __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill

08-08-2009, 09:28 AM	#21 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	I'll wait for the facts, thank you. I'm glad you guys aren't going to be on the jury when my hearing comes up. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

08-08-2009, 09:36 AM	#22 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	We're not saying that if this were a court, we wouldn't want to see an autopsy report, and take a look at all the available evidence. Only that in this case, from where we're standing, with the information we have all pointing towards intoxication, and the only voice going against that is the family (understandable), there's no reason not to believe it. Plus, she's already dead, not much we could do in a court of law. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

08-08-2009, 10:55 AM	#25 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	How is a measured BAC not a fact? __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

08-08-2009, 11:55 AM	#26 (permalink)
Meathed Upright	have current eastern seaboard new york metropolitan area-airborne waste dump fumes or armageddon-level, area 51 mercury levels in her home water supply been ruled out completely as cause of accident at this time?

08-08-2009, 04:30 PM	#34 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Last I checked this was in a different country with a different coroner. That's like saying we need multiple autopsies on every body, just to be sure. That a rare few coroners are corrupt, or inept, says nothing of the likelihood that this coroner, like most others, is doing his or her job with the appropriate expertise. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

08-08-2009, 05:11 PM	#36 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	This Fark headline is appropriate here: Billy Mays didn't use cocaine, David Carradine wasn't a kinky masturbator, and grieving families in denial don't seem to understand forensic evidence __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling