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Glory's Sun 03-06-2009 09:52 AM
Craigslist sued over erotic ads
 
Quote:
The online forum and classified site Craigslist is once again under fire from law enforcement for running advertisements for erotic services.

This time, the Cook County Sheriff's Department is going after the site. On Thursday, Sheriff Thomas Dart filed a federal lawsuit in Illinois accusing Craigslist of "knowingly promoting and facilitating prostitution."

"Craigslist is the single largest source of prostitution in the nation," Dart said Thursday. "Missing children, runaways, abused women and women trafficked in from foreign countries are routinely forced to have sex with strangers because they're being pimped on Craigslist."

Craigslist founder Craig Newmark and CEO Jim Buckmaster did not return calls for comment. Instead, the San Francisco company issued a statement.

"Misuse of Craigslist to facilitate criminal activity is unacceptable, and we continue to work diligently to prevent it," the statement said. "Misuse of the site is exceptionally rare compared to how much the site is used for legal purposes. Regardless, any misuse of the site is not tolerated on Craigslist."

This was not the first time the company has been accused of allowing its Web site to be misused.

In November, the attorney general of Connecticut threatened legal action after receiving complaints about photographs depicting nudity. Eventually, Craigslist came to an agreement with 40 attorneys general around the United States. The company instituted policies aimed at reducing the amount of prostitution, including requiring advertisers for erotic massage, strippers, escort services and the like to pay a fee with a credit card - fees the famously profit-averse company promised to donate to charity.

Dart said the agreement between Craigslist and the attorneys general has resulted in no appreciable reduction of ads for prostitution on the site. Furthermore, he said, Craigslist does not monitor the "erotic services" section of the site, and when his officers have attempted to contact Craigslist they have been ignored or not gotten the kind of help they need.

Dart is asking a federal judge to order Craigslist to eliminate its "Erotic Services" section, where most prostitution ads are posted. He also is seeking reimbursement for tax dollars spent paying the salaries of officers who investigate and arrest those responsible for trafficking women on the Web site.

Craigslist's Buckmaster said previously that the company is trying to strike a balance, keeping the erotic services section - in part to keep such ads from appearing elsewhere on Craigslist - while also protecting free speech and preventing exploitation. He hopes Craigslist can be a pioneer in this kind of cooperation as it has been on the Internet.

In its statement Thursday, the company warned that "Craigslist is an extremely unwise choice for those intent on committing crimes, since criminals inevitably leave an electronic trail to themselves that law enforcement officers will follow. On a daily basis, we are being of direct assistance to police departments and federal authorities nationwide."

Matt Zimmerman, senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said it is unlikely that the sheriff will win the suit because the Communications Decency Act of 1996 explicitly protects Web site owners from culpability for criminal activity perpetrated by third parties.

So, where is the line? Is it up to Craigslist to remove the content or should they police their own content? Often times it is up to the users of CL to flag posts that they think are fake, or violate the TOS. Does the website bear any culpability in this??

I'm of the mindset that craigslist should do a better job in policing their own content, but I also think that the cops would find benefit from people posting these ads. It seems like it would be easier to track these people since they are posting to a public forum. I've heard stories of police setting up fake ads on craigslist to try and lure johns into calling and setting up a sex buy.. so wouldn't they be just as guilty for pimping on craigslist?

Redlemon 03-06-2009 09:55 AM
I haven't wandered through Craigslist in a while. Are there any legal services are listed under Erotic Services?

telekinetic 03-06-2009 10:31 AM
I think craigslist has a very intelligent stance on erotic service ads (I looked into it after seeing this article somewhere else)

Their personals section was getting clogged with hookers, so they gave the hookers their own section, which requires a $5 per ad fee (or something) and identity verification--the catch is they CONTINUALLY cooperate with the police, handing over credit card and name information whenever asked. This is stated in their TOS. People who use craiglist for their hooker needs stand a pretty decent chance of getting sting'ed.

Glory's Sun 03-06-2009 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedmosaic (Post 2605221)
I think craigslist has a very intelligent stance on erotic service ads (I looked into it after seeing this article somewhere else)

Their personals section was getting clogged with hookers, so they gave the hookers their own section, which requires a $5 per ad fee (or something) and identity verification--the catch is they CONTINUALLY cooperate with the police, handing over credit card and name information whenever asked. This is stated in their TOS. People who use craiglist for their hooker needs stand a pretty decent chance of getting sting'ed.

Interesting. I was aware of this so I looked it up. You're spot on.

This only serves to confuse me further on the subject though, because while Craigslist has done all of this, it seems that like the police would be using it to their advantage even more since a verification process is intact. Seems like if it's not a vice cop posting the ad, that the ones that aren't would be easily noticed by the police and all they would have to do is get the information from CL.

shakran 03-06-2009 10:48 AM
exactly what i was thinking gucci. Apparently Barney Fife is sheriffin' in Illinois now ;)

MSD 03-06-2009 12:46 PM
Police should recognize the erotic services section as a tool that will aid them in cracking down on trafficked and abused women who are likely not prostitutes because they want to be. If a girl is in it because she wants to be, she'll go through a reputable agency, which can generally be recognized by advertising her as a person and not a set of measurements and code words detailing what she'll do for you (this is according to an escort who is in it because she's in a non-monogamous relationship with someone who's OK with her job and enjoys making over $100k per year in only 4-5 hours a day, 3 weeks a month.)

Fotzlid 03-06-2009 01:58 PM
Is the sheriff an elected or appointed position in Cook County?

The_Jazz 03-06-2009 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotzlid (Post 2605301)
Is the sheriff an elected or appointed position in Cook County?
He's elected.

Xerxys 03-06-2009 05:03 PM
OMG, such shaky ground. If you actually read the posts, they arent advertising it explicitly. More like implying...

All languages spoken,
GFE
Pr0n S* xperience

:lol:

I have a question. Anyone with half a brain knows what happens here but would the disclaimers offered by the prostitutes actually hold any water in court? If I was a member of a jury I would SOOOOO convict you. Thing is, noone is really saying they're selling sex for money. Sure they mean it ... but no ones saying anything. Really the ad is like this conversation:

Girl: So you wanna go upstairs?
Boy: Yeah, what you got up there.
Girl: What do you want **wink wink**
Boy: Geez, **gets all excited** I've always wanted to taste some of that.... **points above her shoulder**
Girl: I could get you something else, something moooorrreeeee.....
Boy: Ohhh uhhh, well... what exactly?!?!

What if I just had the best mindblowing sex of my time I decided I really love this girl I'm gonna give her a gift certificate from sears??? or a diamond ring, or a house .... whats the difference?

inBOIL 03-06-2009 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSD (Post 2605277)
If a girl is in it because she wants to be, she'll go through a reputable agency,
Unless she doesn't want an agency to get a substantial cut of her fee.

Tully Mars 03-06-2009 05:31 PM
This is all well and good. The CL people are cooperating with LEO and "the law" is easier to enforce. But we're still just spending a bunch of money trying to get people to adhered to a set of guideline set up by a bunch of up tight douches. Sorry, just my opinion but I don't care if Mr. Jones pays Mrs. Smith to blow him. As long as it doesn't involve kids I could give a rats ass. Really porn is what? A bajillion dollar industry? What's the difference between paying a lady to screw some guy on camera and paying her to screw some guy off camera?

You're never going to win the war of drugs or stop prostitution. They're both a complete waste of tax payer money.

Glory's Sun 03-06-2009 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxys
If I was a member of a jury I would SOOOOO convict you

not to derail the thread.. but..

you already know what you would do if you were selected to sit on a jury? And I thought our justice system was working :rolleyes:

william 03-06-2009 06:47 PM
What is so wrong with legalizing prostitution? It's in the bible; it's not going away. It's legal in many countries - and they require the prostitutes to have monthly testing. So what - as long as you are legal age. Anyone that watches HBO knows there is a request for it - so why not? Pimps? Once Uncle Sam makes it okay, they lose their authority.
But what do I know? I think Mary Jane should be as legal as alcohol and tobacco (and taxed the same).

Baraka_Guru 03-06-2009 07:02 PM
Sorry, I don't know what to say about this.

Erotic service ads are published each week here in the free newspapers.

I don't know. I guess craigslist should do a better job filtering out illegal content. It's their responsibility as a company. It's their content, technically...right?

Fotzlid 03-06-2009 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz (Post 2605321)
He's elected.
I thought so.
Rousing up silliness as there is no such thing as bad publicity. Everyone in his area will now know his name.
I can hear it now..."I fought to protect your children from prostitutes..."

telekinetic 03-06-2009 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru (Post 2605362)
Sorry, I don't know what to say about this.

Erotic service ads are published each week here in the free newspapers.

I don't know. I guess craigslist should do a better job filtering out illegal content. It's their responsibility as a company. It's their content, technically...right?
Craigslist has almost no staff, definitely not enough to do ANY manual sorting/censoring on ads. That's why it's community monitored...and really, all it would take is a group of people going through and flagging obvious illegal offers in their community to bring them down. Why doesn't this happen? Because in reality land, noone REALLY gives a shit if someone is offering 100 'roses' for 'french'.

However, here's craigslist ES TOS:
Quote:
Unless all of the following points are true, please use your "back" button to exit this part of craigslist:
I am at least 18 years old.

I understand "erotic services" may include adult content.

I agree to flag as "prohibited" anything illegal or in violation of the craigslist terms of use. This includes, but is not limited to, offers for or the solicitation of prostitution.


I agree to report suspected exploitation of minors to the appropriate authorities.

By clicking on the links below, I release craigslist from any liability that may arise from my use of this site
If you want more background on why the section exists, go here: craigslist | about > erotic services FAQ

Here's an excerpt:

Quote:
Q: What measures has craigslist taken to minimize the misuse of the site for illegal activities?

A: Here are some of the measures we take, many of which are absent from newspaper classifieds and telephone yellow pages:
We ban all illegal activity in our Terms of Use
We place prominent notices on our posting forms warning against illegal activity
We perform telephone verification on user accounts as a requirement for posting in "erotic services"
We block ads containing language that in our experience has a high likelihood of violating our Terms of Use
We remove inappropriate ads that come to our attention
We block persons violating our Terms of Use from posting
We provide a community moderation system whereby our users flag inappropriate ads for removal
We place prominent notices asking users to flag inappropriate ads
In U.S. cities we require credit card authorization to post in "erotic services", and charge a fee for each ad, with 100% of net revenues donated to charity.
We label adult content using the PICS rating sytem, which supports most content control software programs
We prohibit the use of adult-only categories by persons under the age of 18
We participate in the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) Cybertipline program
We collaborate on user awareness campaigns regarding human trafficking and child exploitation
We place notices encouraging users to report any suspected abuse of minors
We maintain a resource page to assist users in reporting suspected abuse of minors
We maintain information pages regarding personal safety on craigslist
We adapt our web site to aid the work of agencies working on human trafficking and exploitation issues
We respond promptly to inquiries and requests for assistance from law enforcement officer

Merlocke 03-08-2009 05:21 PM
Look, it's going to happen whether they attack it or not. You can't police the entire internet.
Craigslist at least separates the targeted area for prostitutes to place their ads instead of misleading people - or posting it in inappropriate places.

Would you rather have a secluded spot for those types of ads, or would you rather the children stumble upon it in the toys and games area?

If you can't stop it - at least allow them to keep it somewhat organized and away from the spots where people who don't want it won't just find it pop up in front of them. I'd hate to have inappropriate posts in say a job posting area if I'm looking for more employees. CL is a great service for what it is - (I've found many job candidates via their job posting area). Let's just keep it clean.

Glory's Sun 03-08-2009 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlocke (Post 2606169)
Look, it's going to happen whether they attack it or not. You can't police the entire internet.
Craigslist at least separates the targeted area for prostitutes to place their ads instead of misleading people - or posting it in inappropriate places.

Would you rather have a secluded spot for those types of ads, or would you rather the children stumble upon it in the toys and games area?

If you can't stop it - at least allow them to keep it somewhat organized and away from the spots where people who don't want it won't just find it pop up in front of them. I'd hate to have inappropriate posts in say a job posting area if I'm looking for more employees. CL is a great service for what it is - (I've found many job candidates via their job posting area). Let's just keep it clean.
I agree.. I'm just saying.. how can the police sue them when they are obviously using it to their advantage? That's what I'm having issues with.

Tully Mars 03-08-2009 06:05 PM
I agree with the person above who said this is a PR thing to get the sheriff re-elected. Personally that wouldn't win my vote. I likely vote against him just for spending my tax dollars this way. Of course that would depend on his opponent and his policies on other issues.

The_Jazz 03-09-2009 05:37 PM
He's up in November of next year, but I doubt that this is going to do much for him, given the number of murders that we've had in the last year.

MSD 03-10-2009 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inBOIL (Post 2605341)
Unless she doesn't want an agency to get a substantial cut of her fee.
60/40 or 70/30 covers an incall apartment, security, and a thorough screening process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2605342)
What's the difference between paying a lady to screw some guy on camera and paying her to screw some guy off camera?
There's no such thing as "reality porn." There's homemade stuff that ends up online, and there's mass-produced stuff. There's no comparison except that sex is involved and money is exchanged.

Xerxys 03-10-2009 09:07 AM
Thorough screening process. Yes sir, I would like the prostitutes that I pay to know my name, credit card number and have business card handy in case I may need their services handy. Yes, that sounds ideal!!

Strange Famous 03-10-2009 11:10 AM
Is paying for sex illegal in the US then?

Xerxys 03-10-2009 11:17 AM
In some parts its not illegal. In NC, I could be arrested for spitting on the side walk. No BS.

Fotzlid 03-10-2009 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxys (Post 2606940)
In some parts its not illegal. In NC, I could be arrested for spitting on the side walk. No BS.
IIRC Nevada (excepting Las Vegas) and Rhode Island are the only 2 states where it is legal.

telekinetic 03-10-2009 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous (Post 2606937)
Is paying for sex illegal in the US then?
Yes. Is it not in the UK?

telekinetic 03-10-2009 02:20 PM
Updated article: Craigslist reports 90% decrease in number of ad listings in a year

Craigslist trumpets 90% drop in erotic services listings - Ars Technica

Quote:
The number of Erotic Services listings on Craigslist have gone down so significantly over the last 12 months that the company describes the results as "spectacular." The news comes less than a week after the Cook County Sheriff's Department filed a lawsuit against the company for facilitating prostitution, but Craigslist insists that it's doing more than enough to fight illegal activity.

MSD 03-11-2009 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxys (Post 2606898)
Thorough screening process. Yes sir, I would like the prostitutes that I pay to know my name, credit card number and have business card handy in case I may need their services handy. Yes, that sounds ideal!!
Name, address, phone number, place of employment (they just call up and say they lost your number without saying who they are just to verify that you work there,) and driver's license number, plus a referral from another escort. Hobbyists are fine with it because it's a sign that the girls are in it because they want to be, plus they know the risk of STDs is practically nonexistent from reputable agencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous (Post 2606937)
Is paying for sex illegal in the US then?
You can be registered as a sex offender for public urination in some states. That's how fucked up our laws are.

stonefaceddog 03-11-2009 03:28 PM
From what I've read of this, it seems like a publicity stunt by the sheriff. Cook county has a lot of bigger problems to worry about. I think the sheriff is just trying to draw attention away from the homicide and violent crimes since those are a little harder to solve.

Charlatan 03-11-2009 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru (Post 2605362)
Sorry, I don't know what to say about this.

Erotic service ads are published each week here in the free newspapers.

I don't know. I guess craigslist should do a better job filtering out illegal content. It's their responsibility as a company. It's their content, technically...right?
Prostitution laws are different in Canada. They are aimed at stopping pimping, brothels and street action.

Xerxys 03-14-2009 11:18 AM
I wonder what the educators on our TFP board think about this ... just curious.

Teacher played hooker   click to show 


I don't know, how I feel about this particular situation. I'm kinda feeling like hypocrate to think this draws the line. I wonder how y'all feel about someone prominent in your child(rens) education would behave like this.


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