jorgelito

Wow, so I guess it was bound to happen. The Spanish Men's Basketball Team decided it would be fun to insult their Chinese hosts by taking a team photo with "Chinky eyes". What's even more shocking is the fact that they don't understand why this is insulting and don't think they did anything wrong. Really, this is pretty ridiculous and uncalled for. It's so American grade school I never thought liberal enlightened Europeans would stoop this low and resort to this type of debasement.

Spanish basketball team poses for offensive picture - Fourth-Place Medal - Olympics - Yahoo! Sports

The Chinese have been excellent hosts and very hospitable so far, even politely cheering the Japanese delegation. Booing is very rare. For them to boo the Spanish team speaks volumes.

Here's the offending photo:

Attached Images

spanishbasketballteam-1.jpg (33.0 KB, 265 views)

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xepherys

Well, lots of people, Americans included, seem to like to believe that Europeans are much more "civilized" than Americans. Frankly, it's just not true. Americans are just more boisterous about our obnoxious habits and ways of being. There are just as many asshats in European countries (and at least triple the number, per capita, in France)

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Willravel

It was kinda dumb, but I don't have direct evidence there was ill intent. As such, I can only fault them for ignorance to racially inappropriate behavior.

Jetée

The photo seems more like they are trying to concentrate on blowing up my mind, a la Charles Xavier, though that may be more to do with the resolution of it.

I tend not to be too involved with the underlying aspects of what some do to entertain themselves. Sure, they offended an entire nation of people off-handedly, but worse things could happen other than making yourselves out to be international douchenozzles by not thinking why this discriminatory gesture might've ticked some off.

Bad move, obviously, to insult the hand that "hosts", but at least they might learn to teach their athletes and population in general to be more aware of other cultures, and to act with dignity in order to be viewed as respectable competitors, instead of world-class jerks.

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jorgelito

Sarcasm. I know man, I just felt like taking a swing at the Europeans cause we Americans always get so much shit for this type of thing.
-----Added 12/8/2008 at 10 : 43 : 32-----
I agree with you, I don't think there was ill intent either. That's the nature of ignorance and institutionalized/indoctrinated racism/prejudice. Regardless, it was still abhorrent for them to do that. And yes, it was definitely dumb.

Another way to think about it is substitution: If they had mocked blacks by making monkey faces or Jews by making their noses big etc etc, no one would find this funny or tolerate it. Nor would they be making excuses for them either.

Just food for thought.

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Willravel

Oh, I don't think it's funny. Think of it this way: let's say you have a 4 year old who's never seen a black person before and gets freaked out when they see one. Am I comparing the social ability of these basketball players to 4 year olds? Yes.

*Nikki*

It's a FACT that Asians eyes are not round. Am I the only one who is not bothered by this photo or who doesn't think it is offensive??

xepherys

*I* could personally care less, but it's not on me what others find offensive. This is, I think, pretty well known to be a played out offense against Asian folk. *shrug*

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jorgelito

Because you are not Asian I am guessing. The offense has very little to do with the actual eye shape of Asians and everything to do with the action. This behaviour/gesture is commonly used to mock, insult, and denigrate Asians in a very real way that often leads to violence. Of course you won't find it offensive because there is no context for you.

The fact that you don't know or realize this is indicative that we have long, long way to go.

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thingstodo

It doesn't mean much to me either way. If the Chinese get upset, that is their right, just as it is the team's right to take the photo. And I guess they bood to show their displeasure.

What I do think is that we worry too much about this sort of thing. It won't change my life one way or the other.

So Nikki...you aren't the only one!!

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pig

I don't know - if the next Olympics are held in South Africa, and the Chinese team dressed up in blackface for a commercial, how would y'all feel about it? I doubt very seriously that the team intended to offend anyone. I can see how the Chinese would be offended, however.

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Halx

Are there any asians in here who are offended or is it just we unaffected folk who are taking up the flag?

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little_tippler

I think a lot of people are being very anal about this. I don't think it was done with the intent to be offensive. I think the fact that people pick up on it as offensive also speaks volumes about the long way they still have to go to stop jumping on each other because of "racism". We are different, that is a fact. Or are we going to pretend we all look the same? I think the Spanish were probably just happy about the China Olympics and made this playful gesture, not to offend, but to acknowledge. I honestly wouldn't read more into it...obviously this was over-analyzed later and here we are.

I do understand that the gesture may have been used to offend previously. Maybe they didn't stop to think about the centuries of history relating to that and how it could be construed. I do think they were foolish to think the Chinese would take it lightly. The Chinese take everything very seriously, because they are very defensive that way, about their heritage and culture. They definitely have an us against them attitude. So it was silly of the Spanish to do this...but I don't think they were racist.

I also find it inappropriate that several of the people who have responded to this thread have taken the opportunity to take jibes at Europeans, while condemning the Spanish attitude. I have no prejudice against Americans or any other nationality, or "race". Obviously you have a chip on your shoulder and that's a shame.

If more people stopped thinking of "racism" all the time maybe then we could actually all get along. I also think that *Nikki* has a point and was brave enough to speak her mind, in an unprejudiced, uncensored way. Everything is so ultra-PC these days it makes me gag.

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Poppinjay

They should never have mocked asians by pantomiming slanty eyes. The should have demonstrated poor driving skills instead.

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Leto

I think it was in bad taste. But I don't get what the pre-occupation is with oriental eyes. So there's a fold of skin. Big deal, why do non-oriental people need to pick on that detail? The eyballs are just as spherical as anybody's.

I have a friend, a girl from Holland, who tries to compete with my wife (an oriental of Han descent) on the 'slantedness' of her eyes. She claims that because she is Dutch, she has slanted eyes. She claims that being Dutch gives her this attribute honestly, while my wife's eyes just 'appear' to be slanted because of the epicanthic fold.

My wife is just like, meh. whatever. She just objects to people using the gesture in a hurtful manner.

highthief

OK, it's obviously offensive - the people at the China-Spain game didn't like it, various Asians have commented on it in a negative fashion. Not sure what the debate is?

Spain is a little silly sometimes with race relations. They had problems last year with Lewis Hamilton (the half black British F1 driver) and racism. Spain has had more than a few issues with soccer and racist chants. They are not the worst offenders by any means (Eastern Europe is far, far worse) but their sports teams and fans aren't always the brightest bulbs when it comes to this sort of thing.

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ironpham

I used to get offended by this. But, now I just push my "slanty eyes" inward to make them look round and say "Hey, look! I'm a whitey."

I do get offended by shit like this though. No tickets/accidents after several years of driving, and I still have to hear this bullshit.

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Jinn

That's true, but no one's eyes are around. Two-dimensional vs. three-dimensional concerns aside (round is 2D, spherical is 3D), most people's eyes are more egg shaped than spherical.

And yea, I'm not really offended but I don't have slanty eyes. I don't know enough Asians to know if it's offensive, either.

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Cynthetiq

I'm not offended by the photo. I'm offended by all the hullabaloo this has generated.

How would this gesture offend me? Well if they walked up to me and did the gesture and said, "Hey Chink!" I'd take some mild offense to the idea that they were trying to get a rise out of me. Otherwise, why is this a real concern?

I'm with tippler, if we acknowledge differences we have as human beings and stop carrying on the race/religion aspects, we'd be much better off. It seems to me that we're being force fed the idea we have to have some sort of instant offended button when it comes to race/religion. It's absurd.

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LoganSnake

Nope. Ditto. Once again, people LOVE to overreact.

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Reese

Well I'd be mad! they did it wrong! Chinese you're supposed to pull your eye out and down a little! duh every 8 year old knows that!

no.. seriously.. Kinda immature for Olympians. I had to teach my little sisters a few days ago not to do that chinese/japanese thing because it was offensive and untrue

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LoganSnake

Exactly. This is about as offensive to me as an Arab team taping payot to their sideburns before a game in Israel. And I'm a Jew.

In fact, I'd probably LOL.

*waits for people to tell me how it's unfair to compare physical characteristics with religious ones*

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Leto

nope... just wondering what payot is. Don't some First Peoples smoke that in religious ceremonies?

djtestudo

There's an Asian comedian that does this joke, and I was trying to find a picture of it.

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Willravel

Actually that'd be a bit worse. It's not like there is a holy war between China and Spain.

Spain: holy war free for *196,735* days.

LoganSnake

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oung_hasid.jpg

Those long sideburns are payot.

You're thinking of peyote.

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jorgelito

Yes, I don't think the Spanish intentionally intended to offend or be racist but nonetheless, their behavior was highly offensive and unacceptable. They've done similar things in the past where they made monkey noises at a visiting African team. However, they were puished for that one. Really, this is indefensible.

Yes. Why? Does it matter? I'm not black but I am offended at racist jibes at black folk too.

Wow, so funny that you don't find the Chinky eyes to be offensive but find the European comments to be offensive. What does this have to do with PC? Why does it make you gag? It makes me sad to see how you fail to see another segment of our population's humanity.

This is extremely offensive and inappropriate.

False. How is it overreacting? I don't I'm overreacting at all.

Please don't belittle the issue here.

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LoganSnake

Do tell why this is offensive to you if you are not of Asian descent.

And overreacting because of this:

Have the hosts commented on it?

Besides, why would somebody from People's Republic of KKKalifornia find anything offensive?

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Poppinjay

That's why I wrote it. But I have to give credit, the idea for the line came from a "Drawn Together" episode.

What the Spanish team did wasn't funny because they're dumb jocks.

When you offend, you have to do it with flava.

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Willravel

Believe it or not, I wasn't. If an Arab team was taping payot to their sideburns before a game in Israel, it would be decidedly worse than Spanish basketball players slanting their eyes.

I keep asking Asian or pac-islander friends about this, and not one of them has cared even a little. Many thought it was funny. I love defending people when I feel they're being mistreated, but I'm having trouble really getting worked up about this one because I feel like I'd be defending political correctness and not actual people.

ironpham

So you wrote it to offend any onlooking Asians? The Spanish team probably weren't trying to offend anyone with that picture. You, however, are starting to cross the line.

As I said previously, I'm not offended by what they did. I think the Chinese (who were booing the Spain basketball team during their match against China) tend to be a little more uptight about these matters. The difference might be that they live in China, and they probably don't see anyone doing that. Your friends are most likely living around areas with less Asians and more Europeans/Americans/non-Asians, so they have seen things like this before.

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jorgelito

Sure. It's offensive to me on two levels: One, as an Asian, the Chinky eyes was one of many tools used to put me down not only verbally but as the precursor for extreme violence. It was often the last thing I saw before being pummeled by others. It was usually accompanied by the "ching chong ching chong" taunt so loved by racist bullies everywhere. Additionally I do not see it as overreacting. I don't know what the Chinese (government) but I do know that they do not want anything to disrupt their Olympics and will sweep this under the rug. They will evaluate the situation critically and look at outcomes and consequences. I started this thread as an expression of my objection to this type of behavior and to share with others that this is not cool.

Two: I don't see it as a PC thing but rather as a respect thing. Regardless of your race, ethnicity, religion, affiliation etc, we should all strive to be more understanding and respectful of each other. Therefore, this behavior is unacceptable and offensive to me on that level and as a human being.

I get your point though. I hope you see mine
-----Added 13/8/2008 at 01 : 57 : 55-----
Haha, ok, touche friend. What is "Drawn Together"?

Don't be so harsh on the Spanish team though. Apparently not all of them were ok with it (including Pau Gasol) and were goaded into doing it by the photographer. Jose Calderon on the other hand...

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LoganSnake

I see that this is tied with your negative personal experiences. Going by that, I can see why this would bother you.

What I don't understand is why it would bother non-Asians unless they were hardcore supporters of political correctness.

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JohnBua

This photo is proof that the world needs a chill pill.

Poppinjay

.


What line and who drew it? You? Have you written letters of disgust to Margaret Cho for her mockery of Asian cultural ethos?

I grew up in the south, and I love things that mock southerners. I watch Squidbillies and think, "my God, they're in my hometown."

Congrats on your driving record. Mine solidly reflects the C I got in driver's ed.

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Willravel

OH, YOU'RE ASIAN. Dude, I didn't know. Still, you're the first of my Asian friends to find it offensive. But that's totally your right.

Poppinjay

It's a cartoon show on Comedy Central, very offensive to pretty much everybody. It has superheroes including a Superman type who has lapses of self-confidence, a Pickachu who is based on Asian stereotypes, a blaxsploitation heroinne "Foxy", Wooldoor Sockbat who I have no idea what he is, a gay elf hero, a virginal princess, a boozy, disgusting elderly betty boop type, and a pig who acts like... well... a pig.

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/d...st/index.jhtml

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jorgelito

Haha, the secret's out (you make it sound like a disease :LOL. No but seriously, I don't go around looking to be offended, just sharing my experience and trying to evolve. You have to look at context too. I grew up as the only Asian kid in my school until about grade 7. Racism was not uncommon. However, most of my Asian friends that grew up in major Asian areas like LA and the Bay area did not experience these types of things or at least not as often. It makes a difference.

Cool man, thanks for the link. I love this type of stuff (satire). For clarification, I tend to view satire differently than say for example the photo and such.

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abaya

Well, this might make me a hypocrite, but I'm all for making fun of your own people group... just not anyone else's. Luckily, I'm half-white (European, even!) and half-Asian, so I can get away with a lot.

What this team did is just plain disappointing and rude. I am not personally offended by it, but I don't think it's funny, nor is it something that should be joked about in any capacity; if other people find it offensive (whether they are Asian or not), who am I to take that right away from them? I find it disappointing when these kinds of things happen, and even more disappointing if they go by unnoticed (e.g. without anyone "overreacting" to them). I'm afraid I have to disagree... because it's not just the Chinese who do this. Plenty of people groups take themselves quite seriously, to the point where you might say it's a universal human trait. I don't think it's fair to say that "all the Chinese are so defensive," when many groups (or even just individuals within those groups) would react in similar ways. Not that this is a very positive trait, but it's certainly understandable given the context and history.

But, in case it's not clear by now, I am the type of person who is quite fine with being PC, and I am much more comfortable erring on the side of being "ultra-PC" than with the possibility of offending others. As was discussed in another thread, I see it as being an issue of manners and respect. You can't go wrong by showing too much respect--if someone unearns the respect you've given them, then that's their mistake.

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