04-13-2008, 05:37 PM | #81 (permalink) | |
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This is veering off topic. I'll end my threadjack here. Last edited by sapiens; 04-13-2008 at 05:43 PM.. |
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04-13-2008, 10:08 PM | #82 (permalink) | |
Mine is an evil laugh
Location: Sydney, Australia
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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button? |
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04-14-2008, 12:28 AM | #83 (permalink) | ||
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Ashamed? Maybe. Stupid? Perhaps. Should the driver of a car that just hit a child playing on the highway be ashamed? A little, but what the hell was the kid doing there in the first place? World peace be damned, a woman traveling alone in a dangerous part of the world for females should really consider her trusting mentality when exposed to the dangers in that environment. Will's right - we should be striving as a whole to make the world a better place, but don't go playing in the proverbial traffic while waiting for the change. Quote:
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-=[ Merlocke ]=- Last edited by Merlocke; 04-14-2008 at 12:30 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-14-2008, 09:14 AM | #84 (permalink) | ||
has a plan
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Ngdawg said it best, we are still primates. No amount of wishful thinking is going to help. Maybe if we start it off young then there might be a change. This would only be psychological conditioning towards negative thoughts, and nothing towards a likely genetic factor. On a sadder note: I doubt the foundations for the utopia that the future will hold wont even be laid within my life time.
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04-14-2008, 09:53 AM | #85 (permalink) | |||
The sky calls to us ...
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A hitchhiker is more likely to be killed by a driver than someone hiring a taxi, limo, or other form of transportation because someone intent on harming another is more likely to do so when they are less likely to be caught, such as when picking up a hitchhiker. A woman hitchhiking is more likely to be raped or murdered than a man when hitchhiking because she is perceived as less able to defend herself and likely is. Foreigners are more likely than natives per capita to be taken advantage of because they lack the knowledge of the local area that would keep them out of bad situations. |
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04-14-2008, 10:03 AM | #86 (permalink) | |
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04-14-2008, 10:11 AM | #87 (permalink) | |
has a plan
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04-14-2008, 10:16 AM | #88 (permalink) | ||
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I think that utility of statistics in understanding the underlying causes of violence (as described by MSD) is a separate issue. |
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04-14-2008, 10:52 AM | #89 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
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04-14-2008, 11:09 AM | #91 (permalink) |
Location: Iceland
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This thread has reached an inordinate level of abstraction... but I guess all threads do that, eventually.
Will, would you go hitchhiking in Mexico (as you said that you have) wearing a big placard that says, "Soy maricón" as a march for gay rights? I mean, really... would you? And if you did, would you really expect to not be attacked in some way, shape, or form?
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
04-14-2008, 11:15 AM | #92 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
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@ 4:14 Lt. McClane in Harlem with a sign. Maybe she needed to have Samuel L. Jackson there, you know he's got that badmofo wallet...
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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04-14-2008, 11:28 AM | #93 (permalink) |
We work alone
Location: Cake Town
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World peace is a rosy pipe dream at this point of human development and in any foreseeable future. This woman was hitchhiking in a developing country trying to prove a point that people are kind? Well, she proved it. Not all of us are. I guess that about sums it up for me.
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Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques |
04-14-2008, 11:31 AM | #94 (permalink) | |
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04-14-2008, 11:35 AM | #95 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
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04-14-2008, 11:39 AM | #96 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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04-14-2008, 11:40 AM | #97 (permalink) | ||
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Cameras do not protect most people, nor do they give meaning to otherwise asinine gestures. Yes, media coverage helps, but it all depends on the particular spin and bent given to that coverage. Nothing is guaranteed, except your own death when doing something like that. Being a martyr is overrated.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 04-14-2008 at 11:42 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-14-2008, 11:49 AM | #98 (permalink) |
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have to say, the piece works doesn't it?
what other point could there have been to it beyond having this kind of discussion? i mean, no matter how it played out, the piece is an exemplary gesture and the point of such gestures is the discussions they trigger. if she had been able to get to her destination unharmed--sadder but wiser--whatever, there's have maybe been the opposite discussion, with folk being all pissy that something DIDN'T happen to her because human beings mostly suck. so it's kinda funny: some of you comrades who argue that pippa branca was stupid as an individual to put herself at this kind of risk are doing *exactly* what her project was designed to engender when you say it. sometimes art is more complicated than you think. and not all of it is pretty.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
04-14-2008, 11:49 AM | #99 (permalink) | ||
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04-14-2008, 11:57 AM | #100 (permalink) | |
Oh dear God he breeded
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Bad spellers of the world untie!!! I am the one you warned me of I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant. |
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04-14-2008, 12:01 PM | #101 (permalink) | ||||
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 04-14-2008 at 12:05 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-14-2008, 12:08 PM | #102 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I owe someone some cash.
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04-14-2008, 12:13 PM | #103 (permalink) |
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abaya: i posted the artist statement earlier in the thread (no. 21) and the interpretation that the project is in a bizarre way still operative with this outcome in no. 70.
it's a good project in that sense---while obviously it was not designed to turn out as it did, it still works. and we are all performing the fact that it does. except now there's the added twist of wondering whether by doing that, we're aesthetising a rape and a murder. which we are, no matter what any individual post says--once you start treating this as an example of a type and then shifting to generalized explanations for it, you're in that game. and it is an ugly game.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
04-14-2008, 12:23 PM | #104 (permalink) | |||
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04-14-2008, 12:28 PM | #105 (permalink) | ||||
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I do agree that we are all performing the fact that it "worked," but I see that as correlation, not a direct result of what the act intended. It is definitely ugly, no bones about that. Isn't martyrdom really about "creating a type," in the end? The act of death becomes bigger than the person... and that is what I dislike about it. A person died here, tragically. I would never minimize that. The fact that she died from a wholly preventable cause does not increase or decrease my pity for her, but it also does not incite even greater pity for her than it would for the average person being killed tragically, anywhere. It is what it is.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 04-14-2008 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-14-2008, 12:34 PM | #106 (permalink) |
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performance art is a curious bidness. of that there's no doubt.
i have no opinion about pippa branca's motives or assessments of risk involved, btw--i don't think they're knowable and they aren't relevant in any event. like i said, obviously the piece was not designed with this outcome in mind--but it's not the first such piece. i don't think it was designed around suicide, nor was it designed with the idea that she'd be raped and murdered. for suicide as art, think mishima.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
04-14-2008, 12:53 PM | #107 (permalink) | |||
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04-14-2008, 02:28 PM | #108 (permalink) | |
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I've learned, or at least been reminded, that you are extraordinarily stubborn. Not a bad thing, as that would be the pot calling the kettle black, etc. Just an observation...
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
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04-14-2008, 02:46 PM | #109 (permalink) |
Eat your vegetables
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
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It's actually pretty interesting watching you folks hash out opinions. Seems clarification is key to understanding.
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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy |
04-14-2008, 04:50 PM | #110 (permalink) | |
Mine is an evil laugh
Location: Sydney, Australia
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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button? |
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04-14-2008, 06:09 PM | #111 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
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Location: Manhattan, NY
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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04-15-2008, 02:55 AM | #112 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Juneau, Alaska
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I don't give a damn if you are predisposed to want to commit crimes-sex crimes or otherwise-at some point, you, as a human being, make a choice. And that, if anything, is human nature: The simple but profound ability to choose your own actions. I have thought a good many despicable thoughts in my life and sure, maybe I'm genetically engineered or somehow society played its part to make me think or want these things, but there comes a point when you decide to do something or not.
I completely agree that society and genetics can play a large role in people's behavior, but I think perhaps that we have forgotten that to be human, you make choices every moment of your life. This woman made a horrible choice, just as the man who raped her did. Yeah, maybe somewhere in the woman's past something instilled in her a foolish sense of trust in humanity, and perhaps the man's genetics urged him to commit this crime. Choice. It sucks to be human, huh? |
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hitchhiker, murdered, peace, world |
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