Anti-gay group pickets service of Reno soldier killed in Iraq, Gets owned. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

urbandev · 01-31-2008, 02:36 AM

Associated Press - January 26, 2008 7:05 PM ET

RENO (AP) - A small group of anti-gay protesters gathered today outside a funeral service for a Reno soldier killed in Iraq, but later became surrounded by more than 150*(supposedly over 220) counter-demonstrators.

The anti-gay protest was the latest sponsored by the Westboro Baptist Church based in Topeka, Kansas, which claims God kills soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to punish America for condoning homosexuality.

Washoe County sheriff's Lieutenant Dean Spurr says there were no problems after three anti-gay protesters became surrounded by counter-demonstrators across the street from Saint Rose of Lima Catholic Church, where the service was held for Army Staff Sergeant Sean Gaul.

The 29-year-old Gaul was among six soldiers who died January 9th in Sinsil, Iraq, after an improvised explosive device, commonly known as IED, detonated during combat operations.

Counter-demonstrators showed up with American flags and made it difficult to see anti-gay protesters' signs that read "God Hates Fags" and "God Loves IE-Ds."

The Westboro Baptist Church has sponsored similar protests across the country.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Keep in mind that the soldier wasn't gay.

Sources:

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7778931
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...2Fbreakingnews
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...2Fbreakingnews

Charlatan · 01-31-2008, 02:40 AM

Nice to see that the fascists can be counted on to protest the anti-gay movement...

How odd.

filtherton · 01-31-2008, 05:04 AM

And from there the counter-demonstrators went on to protest at the funeral of a black soldier.

MSD · 01-31-2008, 05:37 AM

What next? A clown car pulls up and a group of clowns runs around distracting passers-by from the neo-Nazis?

Redlemon · 01-31-2008, 07:17 AM

Doesn't ngdawg do this (the counter-demonstrating, I mean)?

The_Jazz · 01-31-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Doesn't ngdawg do this (the counter-demonstrating, I mean)?

I'm pretty sure she does.

Ustwo · 01-31-2008, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

And from there the counter-demonstrators went on to protest at the funeral of a black soldier.

savmesom11 · 01-31-2008, 08:10 AM

How sad we are not allowed to be honored even in death without someone taking advantage of their freedom of speech.

Infinite_Loser · 01-31-2008, 09:01 AM

Sooo... Where does the owned part come in to play?

World's King · 01-31-2008, 09:10 AM

I'm lost...

Who was gay?

ratbastid · 01-31-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I'm lost...

Who was gay?

America.

Martian · 01-31-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Nice to see that the fascists can be counted on to protest the anti-gay movement...

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

And from there the counter-demonstrators went on to protest at the funeral of a black soldier.

From what I've been able to dig up, it seems like the Iron Nation guys do a lot of stuff like this. Also toy drives. So don't be fooled by all the Nazi symbols, they're just for show.

Here's members of the same club hanging out at a local Denny's

And here they are at a picnic:

They seem friendlier already.

TotalMILF · 01-31-2008, 10:56 AM

The Patriot Guard Riders do a lot of this stuff, too. They'll line up their bikes and drown out the protesters. They did this for my friend's family when her brother was killed in Iraq in 2005.

I'm a fan of these anti-protesters

ngdawg · 01-31-2008, 11:01 AM

OK, my blood started boiling with those beginning comments.

We are NOT by any stretch, "counter-demonstrators". We do NOT just show up, we must be invited by the mourning family-NO EXCEPTIONS.

Y'all need to read up on what you're commenting about before making such ignorant comments.

I don't see any 'nazi' things...the Iron Cross is not a swastika.

The_Jazz · 01-31-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

I don't see any 'nazi' things...the Iron Cross is not a swastika.

ng - I was going to make the same comment (my school's crest is a Germanic cross and it's about as far left as colleges go) until I noticed the SS symbol/twin lightening bolts on the guy's hat in the picture. Those are definitely Nazi symbols, but they might be worn in irony. He's also got what I think is a Luftwaffe badge on his jacket.

I was hoping you would shed more light on this particular group since I know you're active in one that is similar.

ngdawg · 01-31-2008, 11:22 AM

Patriot Guard is not 'similar' to what you're suggesting. It is not anti-protestor, anti-demonstrator, anti-anything. What it IS is support for the military and their families. We provide escort and honor flag lines when it's requested. We escort and welcome home returning soliders and escort and/or support sendoffs. ALL is by invitation ONLY. It is NOT a biker group, biker club or MC-many don't even own bikes, including a few of our State Captains. We work with the military quite frequently.
I have written numerous times and posted several videos I've made about the PGR- I strongly suggest that if anyone THINKS they know what they are, go to www.patriotguard.org and be enlightened., preferrably before calling those who protect the mourners of our nation's heroes "fascists".
And if that's too much trouble, click here

Ustwo · 01-31-2008, 11:32 AM

In case you missed it, note the Canadian I circled in the picture, he looks like one of the riders.

(I couldn't resist)

jewels · 01-31-2008, 11:38 AM

That's a scary group, if you'll recall. I'm firewalled from most of the sites that will give you more info, but check 'em out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

Ustwo · 01-31-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels443

That's a scary group, if you'll recall. I'm firewalled from most of the sites that will give you more info, but check 'em out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

Just in case you arn't clear, those people in the picture are the ones working AGAINST the WBC. Your post gives me the feeling you think thats a picture of them.

Crack · 01-31-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

In case you missed it, note the Canadian I circled in the picture, he looks like one of the riders.

(I couldn't resist)

I noticed he was black, how could you tell he was Canadian? Were his eyes beady, and his head all flappy?

REF:

jewels · 01-31-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Just in case you arn't clear, those people in the picture are the ones working AGAINST the WBC. Your post gives me the feeling you think thats a picture of them.

My bad. Ooops.

Thanks for clarifying.

filtherton · 01-31-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

OK, my blood started boiling with those beginning comments.

We are NOT by any stretch, "counter-demonstrators". We do NOT just show up, we must be invited by the mourning family-NO EXCEPTIONS.

Y'all need to read up on what you're commenting about before making such ignorant comments.

I don't see any 'nazi' things...the Iron Cross is not a swastika.

With all due respect, those who wear symbols commonly associated with neo-nazi movements should not be surprised when their symbols cause people to associate them with neo-nazi movements. The iron cross is not a swastika, but the thing with the two lightning bolts is generally a symbol of some for of race-based hatred. Maybe its some sort of biker culture thing, i don't know, but the fact that a person would be inclined to associate themselves with nazi military elites doesn't really leave all that much room for interpretation.

This isn't at all to say that i disagree with the counter protesting.

Ustwo · 01-31-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

With all due respect, those who wear symbols commonly associated with neo-nazi movements should not be surprised when their symbols cause people to associate them with neo-nazi movements. The iron cross is not a swastika, but the thing with the two lightning bolts is generally a symbol of some for of race-based hatred. Maybe its some sort of biker culture thing, i don't know, but the fact that a person would be inclined to associate themselves with nazi military elites doesn't really leave all that much room for interpretation.

But you still made a bit of an ass of yourself when right next to the guy is standing a black rider

filtherton · 01-31-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

But you still made a bit of an ass of yourself when right next to the guy is standing a black rider

Well, to be fair we don't know if the nazilly dressed guy had seen the black guy yet. Maybe he pretends he doesn't hate minorities for the troops' sake. Maybe he just has an unfortunate fetish for nazi symbolism.

Martian · 01-31-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

Patriot Guard is not 'similar' to what you're suggesting. It is not anti-protestor, anti-demonstrator, anti-anything. What it IS is support for the military and their families. We provide escort and honor flag lines when it's requested. We escort and welcome home returning soliders and escort and/or support sendoffs. ALL is by invitation ONLY. It is NOT a biker group, biker club or MC-many don't even own bikes, including a few of our State Captains. We work with the military quite frequently.

Patriot Guard isn't a club. Iron Nation is. I don't know if Patriot Guard accepts club members as riders (being neither American nor a biker, I can't say I've looked into the organization in any great detail), but I don't think it's a huge leap to assume these guys were there as part of the Patriot Guard (or at least in the same spirit), as they seem to have fulfilled the same function:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGR website

Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives.

1. Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.

2. Shield the mourning family and friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.

We accomplish the latter through strictly legal and non-violent means.

Biker clubs are by and large not terrible people. There are a few high profile examples to the contrary, but you don't hear about the groups who don't cause any trouble. On the other had, there's a certain machismo that runs through the subculture and a certain disregard for authority and/or custom is part of that. Wearing the double lightning bolts of the SS may be an example, whereas I doubt the same individual would wear a swastika. I realize the difference is a subtle one, but the swastika carries a far greater and more overt message. The SS was a military group, whereas the swastika symbolized an ideology.

This is all just extrapolations based on my own experiences, of course.

This is an excerpt from the Iron Nation website. It's a bit overwrought, but it gets the point across. Anyone wanting to read the whole thing can find the site with a quick google search (it's the first result) but I warn you; their site is like a clinic in bad website design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Nation MC

I saw you;
hug your purse closer to you in the grocery store line.
But, you didn't see me;
put an extra $10.00 in the collection plate last Sunday.

I saw you;
pull your child closer when we passed each other on the sidewalk.
But, you didn't see me,
playing Santa at the local mall.

I saw you;
change your mind about going into the restaurant.
But, you didn't see me,
attending a meeting to raise more money for the hurricane relief.

I saw you;
roll up your window and shake your head when I drove by.
But, you didn't see me, driving behind you when you flicked your cigarette butt in my face out your car window.

I saw you;
frown at me when I smiled at your children.
But, you didn't see me,
when I took time off from work to run toys to the homeless.

I saw you;
stare at my long hair.
But, you didn't see me,
and my friends cut ten inches off for Locks of Love.

I saw you;
roll your eyes at our leather coats and gloves.
But, you didn't see me,
and my brothers donate our old coats and gloves to those that had none.

I find that this relates much more closely to the majority of the bikers I've known, as opposed to the stereotypical gang member image.

Plan9 · 01-31-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

I don't see any 'nazi' things...the Iron Cross is not a swastika.

Hmm, that just might be a Nazi symbol...

I don't find any irony in wearing the symbols of those douchebags.

Infinite_Loser · 01-31-2008, 01:33 PM

Punk.of.Ages · 01-31-2008, 01:41 PM

Kind of off subject:

I have some friends who do the whole skin-head look (shaved head, swastikas, ss bolts, white laces, red braces, etc.) They're all hispanic and black. They do it out of spite and mockery. I don't see the point, but to each his own.

On subject:

I like these patriot guard folk. I'd never heard about them before this thread. I'm glad somebody's doing something about these ignorant bastards who protest funerals.

And for the record, every biker I've ever met (Which is quite a few. My dad's a biker and i grew up around them.) has some kind of cause he works for. I've never understood the "bikers are horrible people" stereotype. They're stereotyped in my mind as people who pick a cause and fight hard for it.

The_Jazz · 01-31-2008, 01:43 PM

In case anyone missed it, the protesters (Westboro or otherwise) were not the Patriot Guard, which ngdawg is a part of. The Patriot Guard, while they do often ride motorcycles, is not a protest organization, and they only appear at the family's invitation. They also do not "surround" Westboro-type protesters. They create a wall between the family and the protesters.

The folks depicted in this story are not Patriot Guards, although they are doing something similar. The Iron Cross is not a Nazi symbol, and that may or may not be an SS symbol on the pictured protestor's hat. It is possible it is something entirely different, although I do agree that it does appear to be similar. Also, many who wear Nazi sybmols do so ironically - one needs to look no farther than the Sex Pistols and mid-70's punks in London who were the antithesis of Nazi's.

Just thought I'd try to clear up some of the confusion in this thread since I'm one who contributed to it. Thanks for setting me straight in that PM, ng.

Plan9 · 01-31-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punk.of.Ages

I've never understood the "bikers are horrible people" stereotype. They're stereotyped in my mind as people who pick a cause and fight hard for it.

I own a cruiser motorcycle and a dirty old jacket with my army patches on it.

I'm passionate about my causes. I grow patchy facial hair and like the Delaware Destroyers.

Am I a biker?

...

Stereotypes are fun.

filtherton · 01-31-2008, 01:52 PM

I saw that brian bosworth movie, stone cold. I know what real bikers are like.

Plan9 · 01-31-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

I saw that brian bosworth movie, stone cold. I know what real bikers are like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chains, while showing his "colors" to Stone

This may be a rag to the walking dead out there, but *this* is my flag, my cross, my church. And these colors don't run... If they hit the ground even in a fight, I will peel your skin off with a knife dipped in shit.

Seaver · 01-31-2008, 02:08 PM

As far as the Nazi symbols, does that mean that every college kid who wears a Red Star believes in the Maoist policies that lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions?

Plan9 · 01-31-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

As far as the Nazi symbols, does that mean that every college kid who wears a Red Star believes in the Maoist policies that lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions?

According to many experts... college kids that wear said "red star" T-shirts are douchebags.

...

Good point, though. What about Stalin indirectly killing zillions of his own citizens?

...

No, it's obviously an evil group popularity contest.

Gotta admit, though... the Nazis were so evil that Indiana Jones had to kick their ass.

filtherton · 01-31-2008, 02:20 PM

I think that there's a difference between identifying with communist ideals and identifying with nazi military police, or at the very least fascist principles. Which is to say that it's difficult to look at the nazis and say, "well, they meant well with that whole master race thing, but they were just confused."

That isn't to say that you need to be any less misguided to wear a red star than an ss symbol.

Plan9 · 01-31-2008, 02:26 PM

Yes, we concur... wearing the SS pin is more badderest than the trendy red star.

allaboutmusic · 01-31-2008, 02:29 PM

Good on them. WBC are nutters and I'm glad these guys are there to help grieving families.

urbandev · 01-31-2008, 03:51 PM

nice video of WBC members fleeing for their lives:

Westboro Baptist Church Chased Away Video

World's King · 01-31-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I'm lost...

Who was gay?

America.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Seaver · 01-31-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

According to many experts... college kids that wear said "red star" T-shirts are douchebags.

... Wow. I actually wrote the term "douchebag college kids" before deleting it in my post. Great minds think alike.

01-31-2008, 02:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
urbandev Insane Location: Dayton, NV	Anti-gay group pickets service of Reno soldier killed in Iraq, Gets owned. Associated Press - January 26, 2008 7:05 PM ET RENO (AP) - A small group of anti-gay protesters gathered today outside a funeral service for a Reno soldier killed in Iraq, but later became surrounded by more than 150(supposedly over 220) counter-demonstrators. The anti-gay protest was the latest sponsored by the Westboro Baptist Church based in Topeka, Kansas, which claims God kills soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to punish America for condoning homosexuality. Washoe County sheriff's Lieutenant Dean Spurr says there were no problems after three anti-gay protesters became surrounded by counter-demonstrators across the street from Saint Rose of Lima Catholic Church, where the service was held for Army Staff Sergeant Sean Gaul. The 29-year-old Gaul was among six soldiers who died January 9th in Sinsil, Iraq, after an improvised explosive device, commonly known as IED, detonated during combat operations. Counter-demonstrators showed up with American flags and made it difficult to see anti-gay protesters' signs that read "God Hates Fags" and "God Loves IE-Ds." The Westboro Baptist Church has sponsored similar protests across the country. Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. Keep in mind that the soldier wasn't gay. Sources: http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7778931 http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...2Fbreakingnews http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...2Fbreakingnews __________________ Raoul Duke:* "I wouldn't dare go to sleep with you wandering around with a head full of acid, wanting to slice me up with that goddamn knife." Dr. Gonzo: "Who said anything about slicing you up, man. I just wanted to cut a little Z in your forehead." Last edited by urbandev; 01-31-2008 at 01:24 PM..

01-31-2008, 02:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Nice to see that the fascists can be counted on to protest the anti-gay movement... How odd. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-31-2008, 07:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Doesn't ngdawg do this (the counter-demonstrating, I mean)? __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

01-31-2008, 08:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
savmesom11 Insane	How sad we are not allowed to be honored even in death without someone taking advantage of their freedom of speech. __________________ * I do not believe that struggles are a sign of life falling apart, but rather a step of life falling into place. *

01-31-2008, 09:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
Infinite_Loser Junkie Location: Lake Mary, FL	Sooo... Where does the owned part come in to play? __________________ I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

01-31-2008, 05:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	And from there the counter-demonstrators went on to protest at the funeral of a black soldier.

01-31-2008, 05:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	What next? A clown car pulls up and a group of clowns runs around distracting passers-by from the neo-Nazis?

01-31-2008, 09:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I'm lost... Who was gay? __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

01-31-2008, 10:56 AM	#13 (permalink)
TotalMILF Delusional... but in a funny way Location: deeee-TROIT!!!	The Patriot Guard Riders do a lot of this stuff, too. They'll line up their bikes and drown out the protesters. They did this for my friend's family when her brother was killed in Iraq in 2005. I'm a fan of these anti-protesters __________________ "I'm sorry, all I heard was blah blah blah, I'm a dirty tramp."

01-31-2008, 11:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	OK, my blood started boiling with those beginning comments. We are NOT by any stretch, "counter-demonstrators". We do NOT just show up, we must be invited by the mourning family-NO EXCEPTIONS. Y'all need to read up on what you're commenting about before making such ignorant comments. I don't see any 'nazi' things...the Iron Cross is not a swastika.

01-31-2008, 11:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	Patriot Guard is not 'similar' to what you're suggesting. It is not anti-protestor, anti-demonstrator, anti-anything. What it IS is support for the military and their families. We provide escort and honor flag lines when it's requested. We escort and welcome home returning soliders and escort and/or support sendoffs. ALL is by invitation ONLY. It is NOT a biker group, biker club or MC-many don't even own bikes, including a few of our State Captains. We work with the military quite frequently. I have written numerous times and posted several videos I've made about the PGR- I strongly suggest that if anyone THINKS they know what they are, go to www.patriotguard.org and be enlightened., preferrably before calling those who protect the mourners of our nation's heroes "fascists". And if that's too much trouble, click here

01-31-2008, 11:32 AM	#17 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	In case you missed it, note the Canadian I circled in the picture, he looks like one of the riders. (I couldn't resist) __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

01-31-2008, 11:38 AM	#18 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	That's a scary group, if you'll recall. I'm firewalled from most of the sites that will give you more info, but check 'em out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

01-31-2008, 01:33 PM	#27 (permalink)
Infinite_Loser Junkie Location: Lake Mary, FL	NVM __________________ I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

01-31-2008, 01:41 PM	#28 (permalink)
Punk.of.Ages Forming Location: ....a state of pure inebriation.	Kind of off subject: I have some friends who do the whole skin-head look (shaved head, swastikas, ss bolts, white laces, red braces, etc.) They're all hispanic and black. They do it out of spite and mockery. I don't see the point, but to each his own. On subject: I like these patriot guard folk. I'd never heard about them before this thread. I'm glad somebody's doing something about these ignorant bastards who protest funerals. And for the record, every biker I've ever met (Which is quite a few. My dad's a biker and i grew up around them.) has some kind of cause he works for. I've never understood the "bikers are horrible people" stereotype. They're stereotyped in my mind as people who pick a cause and fight hard for it. __________________ "The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager "Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

01-31-2008, 01:43 PM	#29 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	In case anyone missed it, the protesters (Westboro or otherwise) were not the Patriot Guard, which ngdawg is a part of. The Patriot Guard, while they do often ride motorcycles, is not a protest organization, and they only appear at the family's invitation. They also do not "surround" Westboro-type protesters. They create a wall between the family and the protesters. The folks depicted in this story are not Patriot Guards, although they are doing something similar. The Iron Cross is not a Nazi symbol, and that may or may not be an SS symbol on the pictured protestor's hat. It is possible it is something entirely different, although I do agree that it does appear to be similar. Also, many who wear Nazi sybmols do so ironically - one needs to look no farther than the Sex Pistols and mid-70's punks in London who were the antithesis of Nazi's. Just thought I'd try to clear up some of the confusion in this thread since I'm one who contributed to it. Thanks for setting me straight in that PM, ng. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

01-31-2008, 01:52 PM	#31 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I saw that brian bosworth movie, stone cold. I know what real bikers are like.

01-31-2008, 02:08 PM	#33 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	As far as the Nazi symbols, does that mean that every college kid who wears a Red Star believes in the Maoist policies that lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions? __________________ "Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

01-31-2008, 02:20 PM	#35 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think that there's a difference between identifying with communist ideals and identifying with nazi military police, or at the very least fascist principles. Which is to say that it's difficult to look at the nazis and say, "well, they meant well with that whole master race thing, but they were just confused." That isn't to say that you need to be any less misguided to wear a red star than an ss symbol.

01-31-2008, 02:26 PM	#36 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yes, we concur... wearing the SS pin is more badderest than the trendy red star. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

01-31-2008, 02:29 PM	#37 (permalink)
allaboutmusic Aurally Fixated	Good on them. WBC are nutters and I'm glad these guys are there to help grieving families.