jewels

For that song. ^ ^ ^

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

silent_jay

I just couldn't resist.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Fly

sweet.........our bill was $45.......she was awesome.........so i paid her $60.


do the math.



happy whinners?




what a fuckin' joke...........get over it already

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

jewels

Would that be whiners, winos, winners or weimaraners?

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Fly

i'll be the wino..........

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

silent_jay

Glad you said it and not me....

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Ace_O_Spades

This thread is full of hilarity. I still can't believe this thread is still going...

And here I am, making it even longer! I find it heartening that we're sticking to it though... From lurking the politics forum I've seen many threads totally submarined by host

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Feh.

silent_jay

Me too, seen it quite a few times like you said, he puts them under an avalanche of links and regurgitated argument unti lhey finally say fuck it and host claims victory.

Opps I made it longer too and didn't add any hilarity, hmmm lets see what can I contribute that's funny.....



Found it:

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

uncle phil

let's bring it to nonsense?

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

Fly

i'd say phil........kick it over there and we can mess with it even more.

that'd be a hoot eh?

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BASTARD

SterlingStudios

Ace_O_Spades

Do with it what you will... there was good discussion, however there's a fundamental divide between people who have the courage to admit they were wrong in making a general assumption, and those who lack said courage.

host and ustwo are just stoking the flames with no intent to further real discussion on the issue, so I recommend it be locked instead of moved to nonsense.

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Feh.

silent_jay

It's where it belongs phil, unless we have a retarded section.......................oh wait that's politics haha, no need to put it there, that's how this got started in the first place by politics people, my vote is for nonsense or humour.

EDIT: Forgot to leave my little dose of funny with this post:

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Leto

But you know what? we have pretty decent college football too. It's still the familiar 3-down 110 yard game that we grew up with and I met my wife at a game between Queen's and McGill...

Ace_O_Spades

One of my coworkers has a "Kill McGill" shirt from his time at Queens... It makes me laugh. My university's college football team is so woefully awful it makes me embarrassed... Although I did play for them when we went to the national semifinal. That was a good year, before St. Mary's shitholed us

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Feh.

Martian

I like how this thread has completely derailed from it's original topic and is now about Canadian college football.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Fly

here's to 3 downs and a generous tip.........



*raises wobbly pop*

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

Charlatan

Interesting...

Doing a quick Google using the term, "how much to tip in the US" I came up with the following links:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/tip_calculator.htm
http://people.howstuffworks.com/tipping2.htm
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/tipping/
http://www.ehow.com/how_112004_tip-properly-north.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...50C0A967948260

This one has some interesting info about how much to tip around the world
http://www.budgettravel.com/bt-dyn/c...010200816.html


I say, interesting, because each one of them suggests that a tip should be 15% to 20% (where 15% is regular service and 20% is exceptional service). I realize this not a scientific sampling but it would seem that everyone who tips 20% for regular service is over tipping.

I would suggest that those who are upset when people don't regularly tip 20% should, instead of whining about it, actually attempt to change the meme. Start calling the publishers of guide books, travel agents, tour operators, etc. And let them know that they are giving out erroneous information. The tip rate has gone up and they are doing a disservice to legions of waitrons...

Just a thought.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Mantus

The real solution is for Host to get breast implants...

ShaniFaye

While I may not totally agree with everything that Host has said (but in my defense I've never in my life experienced fine dining at the level he's talking about....mainly cause I think its dumb to pay that much for food lol) but I think that comment was totally uncalled for

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Nimetic

Ok. Well I'm from Aust and I haven't travelled to the US, but here's my quick thoughts.


1) We don't tip here, usually. Rest. staff are trying to encourage it a little now though.
2) Yes, I'll read the brief local guide.
3) When transiting through I will probably read only the official tourism pamphlet - but I've recently found that this can be very misleading.
4) I'm ok with leaving extra for dinner (easily done). But handing cash directly to a person still feels real weird. (How exactly to do it?) I'm thinking hotel porters here. I'll feel like an idiot if I don't carry my own stuff. I feel even weirder doing handing over small change... it's like a cross between bribery and passing crumbs, since it's not big $ yes?

[And then there's the issue of finding correct change]

What I'm saying is this. It's not necessarily that we're stingy. Remember that people are judged in different ways in different countries. In fact, your typical tourist can get home feeling like they've been insulted all day. They have their own culture shock to deal with.

The_Jazz

You didn't go to college, you went to university. And if you're going to call that football, I'm going to have to point out that all the good hockey's played south of the border.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Leto

Cool, I was in the Queen's marching band. We had that slogan printed on one of our Sousaphones, and on the other we had "McGillatine Them"

Who did you play for? I worked with a (big m-f) who played for Acadia.

Mantus

Meow! Hisssssss!

Leto

You know what, I'll have to give you that one. You guys did take a pretty good Canadian concept (granted it was a fusion game that started it between McGill & Harvard) adapt it, make it a little easier to play and popularize it beyond anybody's wildest dreams.

But if you are basing Canadian football on what you see on the CFL, then you should take in a few CIAU games.

I don't think our colleges have football teams, and I always thought that our university = your college.


It's a thing of beauty ain't it?

abaya

What the... ? I don't think Shani was being "catty" at all. I disagree completely and utterly with Host, but that doesn't mean it's okay to start trashing people personally. Doesn't seem like this thread is being too heavily moderated, though.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Charlatan

Crap... do I really need to put my mod hat on?

OK. It is one thing to disagree with Host (or anyone else in this thread) it is another to take cheap shots. You are all above this sort of behaviour. It stops now, or there will be warnings issued.

Thanks

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Ustwo

While host maybe upset about the 15-20% range, I'm more annoyed by the <15% range types.

That to me is just ignorance of the system, being a tightwad, or just overly bitchy about service.

I don't know if he stole the concept, and I can only paraphrase it but in one of Steven Brusts books he covered part of this pretty well, and based on how restaurants show up in his works I assume he worked in one for quite a while.

There are two types of people you do not wish to serve as a waiter.
The first is someone who has always been very wealthy. They will assume they are the most important person in the establishment and expect you do everything above and beyond for them as a matter of course making unreasonable demands. The other type are those too poor to normally eat there. Because the cost of the meal is so great to them, they expect to be treated as if they were spending a great deal of money, when in fact its only a great deal of money to them, and are overly critical of any detail out of place and resentful of the cost.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

jewels

Will wonders never cease. I actually agree with you.

Although I start at 20% and add or subtract depending on level and attitude of service, I'm not anywhere in the neighborhood of wealthy. But if I'm paying to go out to eat, I always expect it's going to cost me around 30% more than the meal. If I can't swing it, Chicken Kitchen or supermarket subs will have to do.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

james t kirk

It depends.....

15% is the norm here in Toronto for standard service.

Now, here's the catch.....

Say I go for breakfest with my current female friend at Sunset Grill on a Sunday morning and the bill is 20 bucks. 15% is 3 bucks.

Lisa is our waitress and she does everything that Francois did for me the night before at Scaramouche, only at Scaramouche, the bill was $500.00 for the two of us.

Lisa came to the table, she took our order, came back and asked if we wanted anything else, we probably asked later for another orange juice and the bill is 20 bucks.

http://www.sunsetgrill.ca/


In that situtation, I'd probably leave a five.

Now Francois at Scaramouche. The bill for the two of us for dinner is 500 bucks. Francois took our order, came back, asked if wanted anything else, probably got asked for a glass of water, then brought desert.

http://www.scaramoucherestaurant.com/


For his efforts Francois gets 75 bucks from me (maximum) unless he detailed my car while while we were having dinner.

BTW, you tip on the subtotal which does not include the taxes.

Lastly, one other thought, in my travels in the US, I find your average restaurant bill to be cheaper than in the Great White North. (It's cheaper in the US, they don't tax the shit out of you, and the wait staff makes less.) So, it would probably be a good idea to leave a bit more.

Martian

Shit, maybe I am a cheapskate. At $250/plate I'm thinking they damn well better detail my car. $50/plate is generally as high as I go (and in those situations I do tip 15% for average service).

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Fly

my family falls in the middle of these two....and we go out with the expectation to spend some dollars....we go out to have fun.

we frequent an awesome establishment.....and drop alot of money there.we may be having such a good time that we'd stay for maybe some dessert or another drink.

now if that's the case.....the server has got my extra coin in her pocket....why????

because we had a good time.........so she/he reaps the "rewards".....

......if the food sucked......that's not her fault,it's the cooks.....will i pay her any less for a shitty meal...no....but i will let her know,to let the cook know that the food sucked.

so say she feels kinda lousy about that,and decides to bring us a shooter or cake off the cuff......then she went above and beyond.......and therefore....she'll get even more of a tip,even though the food sucked.

what i'm getting at is.....it's all about the server....if she/he wants to make more money,then they need to work a little harder no?

nothing drastic...just the little things.......hey,even refilling the water on occasion....simple things.



and on that note.........i'm outta here.

good luck all.

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

james t kirk

Just another note to the debate, I agree with Shani and a few of the others that if the service is shit, the food is shit, I don't leave a tip. I have NO problem with that. I won't pay for incompetence. I don't care if it's not the waiter's fault. IMHO, the waiter shares in the blame, he's part of the restaurant.

And before all you waiters and former waiters get on your high horse, consider this....in my industry - Engineering - if we make a mistake or don't do our job properly- we get fucking sued. Never mind getting paid. You don't get paid, that goes without saying. We do get sued though.

In my former industry - construction, I've seen people refuse to pay for $100,000 worth of renovations because the colour of the paint wasn't right and they weren't going to pay till that room was repainted. Guess what - we repainted the farking room.

Leto

See, Tiberius, this is where I think you are stretching it a bit. You actually got INTO Sunset Grill for brunch?


You must have started lining up the night before.


by the way, I find it very difficult to resolve your avatar with your profession. Gives me the heebie-jeebies whenever I cross a bridge!

On the note of brunch, I attend Chinese brunch (Yim Cha) for dim sum quite a bit with various family and friends on a regular basis. There, the standard gratuitee is one dollar per person at the table. Since our table usually has 10 to 12 people, that's a $10 to $12 tip for a $100 or so meal.

Of course I feel badly about this customary approach, and because the servers pushing the carts are usually older Chinese women, I typically up the ante before I leave. (who knows, maybe these women all drive Mercedes and live in Markham, but there you go).

canuckguy

i stared at this reply field for 5 minutes now trying to put into words what i have read so far. craziness to the extreme! i am embarrassed by some....

i find it simple. i tip well for good service, i tip poorly for bad. a good tip? depends on the bill, but usually 20-40%, a bad tip? 10% or less. and yes i have stiffed a couple of servers for horrible service (not food).

i think if i lived where servers earned $2.50/hr i might feel bad and tip more regardless of the service. not that they make good money here ($8/hr?) but still 2.50 is utter shit.

the funny thing i find in this thread is that when i travel i over tip huge to help give canadians a good name lol. here i thought i was making a difference...

james t kirk

Bubbles is the smart one after all

I luv the Sunset grill for breaky. I live around Bloor and Jane and there's one at Bloor and Runnymede. Yeah, they can be lined up out the door, but it's part of the fun and no-one sticks around too long at SSG.

Aladdin Sane

Mantus, I get it, and I even laughed.

This is not meant to insult host. If I am correct, Mantus is saying that big breasted waitresses get better tips from Canadians, so therefore, Host should get breast implants. Get it?

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

silent_jay

Ding, ding, we have a winner, I'm pretty sure as well this is what Mantus was referring too, pretty funny if you ask me, but I guess some people thought he was being insulting, I got a kick out of it.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Ace_O_Spades

I played for Simon Fraser University. Pretty much the shittiest team in the league now. But we were good for that one year... woooo....

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Feh.

World's King

This conversation is still goin?


I'll answer it very simply for you.



Foreigners are dumb. Americans are the best people ever.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Ace_O_Spades

USA! USA! USA!!!!

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Feh.