Couple marries, discovers they are twins - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

TotalMILF · 01-11-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

LONDON, England (CNN) -- British twins who had been separated at birth learned they were related only after they had become husband and wife, a senior British lawmaker said. The marriage has been annulled.

Former British MP David Alton highlighted the case of the twins who unwittingly married each other.

The couple's identities have been protected for legal reasons.

Their case was first highlighted by Lord Alton of Liverpool during a discussion on donor conception in the House of Lords in December, but only came to light Friday.

The peer told the House of Lords that a court annulled the union as soon as the twins' true relationship became known.

"They were never told that they were twins," he said during the Dec. 10 debate on a law covering human fertility and embryology. They had been adopted by separate families and "met later in life and felt an inevitable attraction, and the judge had to deal with the consequences of the marriage that they entered into and all the issues of their separation."

No further details about the couple have emerged, and it is not known when the marriage took place or how long they were together before they discovered the truth.

Adoption groups said Friday the case proves the need for openness and transparency during the adoption process.

Mo O'Reilly, director of child placement for the British Association for Adoption and Fostering, said released a statement saying: "Thirty or 40 years ago it would have been more likely that twins be separated and brought up without knowledge of each other."

However, she said, greater emphasis in recent years on ensuring adopted siblings stay in touch meant this "traumatic" case will remain "incredibly rare."

Daisy O'Clee, a spokeswoman for the agency, said that of more current concern is the lack of legislation surrounding fertility treatment.

Under British law the parents of a donor-conceived child do not have to declare that fact on the child's birth certificate, O'Clee told CNN. This means a child conceived with a donor sperm or egg may never know their true origin.

Lawmakers will vote Tuesday on whether to pass a law covering human fertility and embryology that would relax the rules on who can have fertility treatment.

O'Clee warned that in its present form the proposal does little to address the rights of donor-conceived children.

"The rights of donor children are being ignored," she said.

Man, that's so sad. Can you even imagine finding out your husband/wife is your twin brother/sister, then having the courts annul your marriage?

Do you think the courts were right in annulling the marriage? I'm torn. On one hand, the couple is completely innocent in this situation and really didn't deserve this, and I can't even imagine how horrible this is for them. On the other hand, allowing them to stay legally married is sending the message "Incest is OK as long as you don't know you're related!" in which case I'm sure they'd have at least a few couples claiming they "didn't know" or something. *shudder*

So sad

SecretMethod70 · 01-11-2008, 04:24 PM

Require one of them to be sterilized and let them stay married.

ratbastid · 01-11-2008, 04:28 PM

Wow.

So: just wow.

See, I'm starting to realize that I do things too fast on this great old internet of ours. I miss nuance and subtlety, I go off half cocked based on what I thought I read rather than what's actually there.

Case in point: when I read this article earlier today I thought we were talking about conjoined twins who were literally "separated at birth".

Wow.

Crazy story even just the way it is, though.

MexicanOnABike · 01-11-2008, 04:31 PM

didn't their birthday and time of birth say something to them?
I was born on july 10th '78.

me too!!

Ustwo · 01-11-2008, 04:40 PM

Based on some theories for what makes someone attractive, this is not unexpected if twins were separated and later met each other.

fresnelly · 01-11-2008, 04:46 PM

Drew Curtis of Fark.com has an interesting take on this. He believe the story to be a fiction created by David Alton to further his legislation. Crackpot conspiracy theory? Perhaps.

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDBlog=21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Curtis

The details:

Twins, a brother and a sister, were adopted shortly after birth by different parents. They later accidentally married each other. They later found out and got a divorce.

David Alton, a member of the House of Lords (UK parliament), told a story as an argument that people who are adopted should be able to later find out who their parents are.

That's it. Alton doesn't name the people, he doesn't name the high court judge involved in their subsequent divorce, he doesn't give a timeframe when this happened. He's also a politician pushing a pet issue through a lawmaking body of government.

Politicians lie to get laws passed, folks. Yes shocking I know. This "news" story is complete crap.

Judging from the article CNN ran, the big media folks think so too. CNN's article pins all the details on the UK Press Association. The CNN article in it's distilled basic form is: "UK Press Association says stuff." The UK Press Association's information, distilled to basic form, is: "David Alton says stuff." Both articles are therefore factually correct, these things were said. It's a hedge used often by media companies use to get around taking blame later on for accidentally reporting unsubstantiated facts as news. You see it fairly often in gossip articles, quoting unnamed sources for juicy celebrity details.

I have yet to see any article about these supposed married twins that did any fact checking to see if there was any truth to this story. No one bothered. Why? Because it's sensational. Brother and Sister Hardcore Action. It's a top story on every major international news outlet today.

Whose fault is this? Don't blame the media, blame the audience. This stuff is red hot as far as clicks and pageviews go. You can see this on CNN, FoxNews, and any other site that displays Top Stories of the Day based on traffic. Don't blame media for serving this stuff up as news, blame the media-consuming public for wanting it to be news.

The chances of adopted twins marrying each other actually happening are damn near impossible. Two people adopted and separated at birth would have to randomly meet, fall in love, and get married. They would have to not suspect anything during this courtship, even though they both know they're adopted, they kind of look like each other, and they have the same birthday. Their parents would know they both came from the same adoption agency. To me this would raise all kinds of red flags. Maybe these two people were that dumb. Maybe the impossible happened and they met and got married without suspecting anything.

Or maybe, just maybe, David Alton, a politician, made the whole thing up to get legislation passed.

Frosstbyte · 01-11-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Require one of them to be sterilized and let them stay married.

This is exactly what I came in here to say.

Willravel · 01-11-2008, 04:48 PM

Not one Star Wars reference? I'm proud, TFP. I really am.

Ustwo · 01-11-2008, 05:05 PM

Fake or not, its not unexpected that twins should be attracted to each other if they are raised apart, the reasoning is the same as that father daughter marriage that made the general board several months ago.

Incest isn't rare because its 'taboo' but because we instinctively are not sexually attracted to people we grow up with. Remove this and we are more attracted to family members than non-family.

Shauk · 01-11-2008, 05:08 PM

fresnelly, good catch, thats a great point.

no names and no documents to back it up do seem a bit lacking

just for you will...just for you.

SecretMethod70 · 01-11-2008, 05:11 PM

wrong reference Shauk

Willravel · 01-11-2008, 05:15 PM

How do you know Admiral Ackbar didn't marry his sister?

IT'S A TRAP!

TotalMILF · 01-11-2008, 05:31 PM

*shakes head* Oh, Shauk...

I really hope this story is just something that someone just made up so they had an anecdote to use when trying to pass a piece of legislation. I really do.

I also agree with what others are saying: sterilize one and let them stay married.

shesus · 01-11-2008, 05:33 PM

This seems a bit too strange. I suppose it could happen, but the conspiracy theory makes more sense to me.

What an odd story, true or not. If it is true, I'm not sure why they'd want to stay married. I would feel very weird. I remember when I was engaged before and there was a chance that we were distantly related. I was ready to break it off. But then, looking back through our families, it wasn't true.

JumpinJesus · 01-11-2008, 05:36 PM

I thought Oedipus Rex before I thought Star Wars.

You're all a bunch of fucking geeks, you know that?

Yeah, I know O. Rex was all about his momma, so back off.

blahblah454 · 01-11-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

This is exactly what I came in here to say.

Exactly.

They say that you are most attracted to yourself and you try to find partners that both look and act like you do. So who is most like yourself other than you... your twin, thats who

PonyPotato · 01-11-2008, 05:44 PM

All of this talk of sterilization has me somewhat confused.. kids don't come exclusively out of marriage (i.e. you don't need a ring to have sex, thankfully!). What if the woman was pregnant before they got a divorce? Forced abortion?

I would go on a physical anthropology/evolutionary tangent, but I'll leave that alone for now.

TotalMILF · 01-11-2008, 05:47 PM

Sorry JumpinJesus, but...

Lucky for you I also love people who can spell Oedipus.

pig · 01-11-2008, 05:55 PM

So now they're just living together? What does this type of thing do to the family structure, I say! They're living in sin, all because their beautiful love wasn't condoned by the state.

Seriously, they're in Tijuana right now enjoying a good donkey show. I can understand the state dissolving their official union due to the precedent that would be set...but after that, I say it's up to the couple involved. If they can look past that nasty little chromosomal linkage, then who would ever know?

Of course, if it's a PR move, then there you go.

Willravel · 01-11-2008, 05:58 PM

Lasereth · 01-11-2008, 06:07 PM

As an identical twin I don't find this that unusual. Having a twin is like having another of yourself to talk to. And it's great. Finding a female counterpart that is very similar to you would be an awesome relationship. Until you found out she was your sister of course. Otherwise it would be pretty much perfect.

Plan9 · 01-11-2008, 06:09 PM

"YER MUH SISTER, YER MUH SISTER!" - Joe Dirt

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

How do you know Admiral Ackbar didn't marry his sister?

IT'S A TRAP!

Good save, Will.

Shauk · 01-11-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

Drew Curtis of Fark.com has an interesting take on this. He believe the story to be a fiction created by David Alton to further his legislation. Crackpot conspiracy theory? Perhaps.

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDBlog=21

quoted for relevance btw.. seems a lot of people may have missed this post.

little_tippler · 01-11-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanOnABike

didn't their birthday and time of birth say something to them?
I was born on july 10th '78.

me too!!

well, one of my friends has a boyfriend and they have the same birth date....

I think probably they just thought it was another sign that they were meant to be...

It may be quite confusing and overwhelming at first but I imagine if they really love each other, they're not going to let any courft decide whether they stay together or not.

I for one prefer to pass no judgment and wish them well - I just think they have to be realistic and make sure they are very careful in terms of ever considering to have kids...

robot_parade · 01-11-2008, 09:42 PM

Meh. Not that big a deal. The 'case' was only brought to light to further the position that sperm donor/IVF/adopted children should know who their real parents are. I disagree with this position, because it may discourage parents giving children up for adoption (instead of an abortion). The problem is just as easily solved with a hash function (sperm donor -> random identifier). The random identifier is given to any child conceived by the sperm donor, along with an (anonymized) medical history. That way, the child knows his medical history, and can identify siblings, but the donor remains anonymous.

Also, I seem to recall reading a few years ago that the problems with inbreeding tend to occur only after a few generations of inbreeding. So, such a couple could have kids without problems (except the 'ew' factor...). I'm too lazy to check the actual research, though, so I could be wrong about that.

Meh. Not that big a deal. The 'case' was only brought to light to further the position that sperm donor/IVF/adopted children should know who their real parents are. I disagree with this position, because it may discourage parents giving children up for adoption (instead of an abortion). The problem is just as easily solved with a hash function (sperm donor -> random identifier). The random identifier is given to any child conceived by the sperm donor, along with an (anonymized) medical history. That way, the child knows his medical history, and can identify siblings, but the donor remains anonymous.

Also, I seem to recall reading a few years ago that the problems with inbreeding tend to occur only after a few generations of inbreeding. So, such a couple could have kids without problems (except the 'ew' factor...). I'm too lazy to check the actual research, though, so I could be wrong about that.

genuinegirly · 01-11-2008, 11:30 PM

Ok... so I'm not sure if it's true or a fake, but I can see how it could be true. I also seem to remember something about European elite marrying twin siblings back in the day, to keep the wealth in the family. I'm not into history, so what do I know.

Seems like they'll have a pretty tight bond from now on, whether they choose to stay together romantically or not. Sounds like a mess, that I wouldn't want to deal with.

inBOIL · 01-12-2008, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robot_parade

Meh. Also, I seem to recall reading a few years ago that the problems with inbreeding tend to occur only after a few generations of inbreeding. So, such a couple could have kids without problems (except the 'ew' factor...). I'm too lazy to check the actual research, though, so I could be wrong about that.

If they both carry the same autosomal recessive gene for a disease (for example, Cystic Fibrosis) their children will be much more likely to have the disease than if they mate with unrelated partners. Inbreeding can lead to serious complications in only one generation, although inbreeding depression will take several generations to become serious.

dlish · 01-12-2008, 03:07 AM

for those of you that rekon that one of them should be sterilised, there are a few issues that need to be understood and thought about.

1) do we deny someone the right to have children?
2) do we deny someone the right to have children in the event that they get divorced (in this case they did..).
3) assuming that one of them did get strilised, and later decided that the whole situation was too much heartache, and they changed their mind about being together, what gives society the right to withold the gift of children?

one thing is for sure though.. the saying about not being able to divorce your family now goes out the window.

Redlemon · 01-12-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

I thought Oedipus Rex before I thought Star Wars.

You're all a bunch of fucking geeks, you know that?

Yeah, I know O. Rex was all about his momma, so back off.

It also (nearly) happened in A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.

Note for you pervs: it has nothing to do with Penthouse Forum Magazine. Although they probably had a letter that dealt with this subject as well, come to think of it.

Hain · 01-12-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

Drew Curtis of Fark.com has an interesting take on this. He believe the story to be a fiction created by David Alton to further his legislation. Crackpot conspiracy theory? Perhaps.

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDBlog=21

A conspiracy you say?

This is really just wow. I can imagine the psychological effects tied to it, but I think that related children adopted by different parents should know that they have siblings out there in the world. I don't know what should be done when they want to meet them... I think they should be allowed to meet, if nothing else, let them know they aren't alone in the world.

RangerJoe · 01-12-2008, 08:15 PM

Sadly, this is one of the reasons that Indiana requires a blood test before two people get married. They don't want anyone marrying their brother/sister/aunt/child.

World's King · 01-12-2008, 08:22 PM

Ew.

That is all.

RangerJoe · 01-12-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

Ew.

That is all.

Southern Indiana can get quite hickish...

01-11-2008, 04:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Require one of them to be sterilized and let them stay married. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

01-11-2008, 04:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
MexicanOnABike Location: up north	didn't their birthday and time of birth say something to them? I was born on july 10th '78. me too!! __________________ - Movie Reviews - Ratings-

01-11-2008, 04:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Based on some theories for what makes someone attractive, this is not unexpected if twins were separated and later met each other. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

01-11-2008, 05:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Fake or not, its not unexpected that twins should be attracted to each other if they are raised apart, the reasoning is the same as that father daughter marriage that made the general board several months ago. Incest isn't rare because its 'taboo' but because we instinctively are not sexually attracted to people we grow up with. Remove this and we are more attracted to family members than non-family. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

01-11-2008, 05:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	fresnelly, good catch, thats a great point. no names and no documents to back it up do seem a bit lacking just for you will...just for you. Last edited by Shauk; 01-11-2008 at 05:14 PM..

01-11-2008, 04:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	Wow. So: just wow. See, I'm starting to realize that I do things too fast on this great old internet of ours. I miss nuance and subtlety, I go off half cocked based on what I thought I read rather than what's actually there. Case in point: when I read this article earlier today I thought we were talking about conjoined twins who were literally "separated at birth". Wow. Crazy story even just the way it is, though.

01-11-2008, 04:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Not one Star Wars reference? I'm proud, TFP. I really am.

01-11-2008, 05:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	wrong reference Shauk __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

01-11-2008, 05:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	How do you know Admiral Ackbar didn't marry his sister? IT'S A TRAP!

01-11-2008, 05:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
TotalMILF Delusional... but in a funny way Location: deeee-TROIT!!!	shakes head Oh, Shauk... I really hope this story is just something that someone just made up so they had an anecdote to use when trying to pass a piece of legislation. I really do. I also agree with what others are saying: sterilize one and let them stay married. __________________ "I'm sorry, all I heard was blah blah blah, I'm a dirty tramp."

01-11-2008, 05:33 PM	#14 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	This seems a bit too strange. I suppose it could happen, but the conspiracy theory makes more sense to me. What an odd story, true or not. If it is true, I'm not sure why they'd want to stay married. I would feel very weird. I remember when I was engaged before and there was a chance that we were distantly related. I was ready to break it off. But then, looking back through our families, it wasn't true. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

01-11-2008, 05:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I thought Oedipus Rex before I thought Star Wars. You're all a bunch of fucking geeks, you know that? Yeah, I know O. Rex was all about his momma, so back off. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

01-11-2008, 05:44 PM	#17 (permalink)
PonyPotato Soaring Location: Ohio!	All of this talk of sterilization has me somewhat confused.. kids don't come exclusively out of marriage (i.e. you don't need a ring to have sex, thankfully!). What if the woman was pregnant before they got a divorce? Forced abortion? I would go on a physical anthropology/evolutionary tangent, but I'll leave that alone for now. __________________ "Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark." — Henri-Frédéric Amiel

01-11-2008, 05:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
TotalMILF Delusional... but in a funny way Location: deeee-TROIT!!!	Sorry JumpinJesus, but... Lucky for you I also love people who can spell Oedipus. __________________ "I'm sorry, all I heard was blah blah blah, I'm a dirty tramp."

01-11-2008, 05:55 PM	#19 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	So now they're just living together? What does this type of thing do to the family structure, I say! They're living in sin, all because their beautiful love wasn't condoned by the state. Seriously, they're in Tijuana right now enjoying a good donkey show. I can understand the state dissolving their official union due to the precedent that would be set...but after that, I say it's up to the couple involved. If they can look past that nasty little chromosomal linkage, then who would ever know? Of course, if it's a PR move, then there you go. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

01-11-2008, 05:58 PM	#20 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.

01-11-2008, 06:07 PM	#21 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	As an identical twin I don't find this that unusual. Having a twin is like having another of yourself to talk to. And it's great. Finding a female counterpart that is very similar to you would be an awesome relationship. Until you found out she was your sister of course. Otherwise it would be pretty much perfect.

01-11-2008, 09:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
robot_parade Junkie Location: San Antonio, TX	Meh. Not that big a deal. The 'case' was only brought to light to further the position that sperm donor/IVF/adopted children should know who their real parents are. I disagree with this position, because it may discourage parents giving children up for adoption (instead of an abortion). The problem is just as easily solved with a hash function (sperm donor -> random identifier). The random identifier is given to any child conceived by the sperm donor, along with an (anonymized) medical history. That way, the child knows his medical history, and can identify siblings, but the donor remains anonymous. Also, I seem to recall reading a few years ago that the problems with inbreeding tend to occur only after a few generations of inbreeding. So, such a couple could have kids without problems (except the 'ew' factor...). I'm too lazy to check the actual research, though, so I could be wrong about that. Meh. Not that big a deal. The 'case' was only brought to light to further the position that sperm donor/IVF/adopted children should know who their real parents are. I disagree with this position, because it may discourage parents giving children up for adoption (instead of an abortion). The problem is just as easily solved with a hash function (sperm donor -> random identifier). The random identifier is given to any child conceived by the sperm donor, along with an (anonymized) medical history. That way, the child knows his medical history, and can identify siblings, but the donor remains anonymous. Also, I seem to recall reading a few years ago that the problems with inbreeding tend to occur only after a few generations of inbreeding. So, such a couple could have kids without problems (except the 'ew' factor...). I'm too lazy to check the actual research, though, so I could be wrong about that. Last edited by robot_parade; 01-11-2008 at 09:53 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

01-11-2008, 11:30 PM	#26 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Ok... so I'm not sure if it's true or a fake, but I can see how it could be true. I also seem to remember something about European elite marrying twin siblings back in the day, to keep the wealth in the family. I'm not into history, so what do I know. Seems like they'll have a pretty tight bond from now on, whether they choose to stay together romantically or not. Sounds like a mess, that I wouldn't want to deal with. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

01-12-2008, 03:07 AM	#28 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	for those of you that rekon that one of them should be sterilised, there are a few issues that need to be understood and thought about. 1) do we deny someone the right to have children? 2) do we deny someone the right to have children in the event that they get divorced (in this case they did..). 3) assuming that one of them did get strilised, and later decided that the whole situation was too much heartache, and they changed their mind about being together, what gives society the right to withold the gift of children? one thing is for sure though.. the saying about not being able to divorce your family now goes out the window. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

01-12-2008, 08:15 PM	#31 (permalink)
RangerJoe Addict	Sadly, this is one of the reasons that Indiana requires a blood test before two people get married. They don't want anyone marrying their brother/sister/aunt/child.

01-12-2008, 08:22 PM	#32 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Ew. That is all. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown