The_Dude

this whole situation arose from a discussion in my english class.

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when i'm alone w/ my CLOSE friends, friends i've known, we make very crude, what others might consider offensive jokes. this ranges from racist to sexist to gay to sexual humor.

we make all kinds of jokes like this.

but none of us are offended. we pick on each other (each other's race etc...) and there is no problem. we're all cool w/ the stuff.

------------

now, we watch a movie in a class and some women (in their 40's or so) think that it's wrong to do that. i stood up for the guys in the movie putting women down (all jokingly).

these women in my class thinks it's wrong to do that, but i think it's a joke and it wasnt intended for non-familiar people to hear.

anyway, i know that most guys make these kinds of jokes w/ friends, but is it wrong?

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

scope

It depends on the situation and who is around you, IMO.

If I'm near close friends who can take a sensitive joke or two, why not, its fine. If you're in a public environment where there may be people who would get offended, then it is definetely wrong. There are times and places for everything...that goes for jokes too. I think its important to remain open with your friends, but at the same time respect everyone's emotional border.
Personally, I make retarded and often offensive jokes, but only around people whom I know will be able to take it lightly.

The_Dude

exactly, i would never even dream about reciting those jokes to people i dont know well.

but is it still wrong to make jokes that put down sex/religion/race/color etc...?

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

neilz0r

okay, me and my buds are terrible for this
we say so much shit to each other that i would never even dream of saying in public, but it's cool because we all know it's in good fun and none of us are haters
in any case, youre not alone

__________________
Beware the fury of a patient man...

neilz0r

imo there's nothing wrong with it as long as it's not hurting ne1
perasonally, the whole world is a little to uptight for my tastes
some people just need to chill out a tad

__________________
Beware the fury of a patient man...

Phaenx

It all depends on if they're important enough to avoid offending.

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

YourNeverThere

when im with friends all we ever do is make butt-sex jokes, constantly, they rarely even make sense, but no one offended. untill we go out

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The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

vermin

A wise man, I think it was Socrates, once said "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke".

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If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.

yatzr

I don't think its any worse than cussing with your friends. I don't know about you, but i try not to cuss in public or in front of anyone that i think it would offend. same with these kinds of jokes...as long as i know they're not gonna get offended, i'll use all kinds of bad jokes.

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Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets.

MrFlux

Yep, if I'm talking to someone who can't take a joke, it's probably not of my own free will.

__________________
flux (n.)
Medicine. The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines.

MacGnG

it's ok to a point. now when my friends say Jew jokes and stuff i laugh at them even though some of them are semi-offensive, but when some dick head says one thats NOT even funny, i just flip out and he looks like, well a dick head. i'm usually in the mood for a good Jew joke but it's understandable that some people dont want to hear those kinds of jokes.

it's really just about right time and place.

if it's a good joke no matter what the subject, then most people wont have a problem, but some racist or like really degrading jokes or something i might just laugh a little or smile or soemthing but like no big deal, or like "oh thats just wrong" lol soemthing

and if those people are offended, even if they are overly offended for no reason but they are that kind of person, just say something nice or whatever to get them to shut up and forget it.

4thTimeLucky

Nope. My friends and I don't crack racist or sexist jokes.
And yes we do have a sense of humour and have probably been to (and even performed at) more comedy clubs betwen us than all the people on this thread put together.

It's not a conscious decision we make. It's just that we would all think less of one of us if they needed to stoop to such humour. Okay, a few good 'discriminatory' jokes get through when they are ironic. But mostly my friends and I consider it on a par with using the terms 'gay', 'queer' or 'faggot' as insults. Loads of people do it and therefore in one way it seems fine - they aren't consciously making the connection between homosexuality and stupidity/inedptitude/failure. Howevr if you take a moment to think about the sort of associations and ideas you are perpetuating then you'll realise that it is better to change your vocabulary (and your jokes) so that you don't end up endorsing homophobia/racism/sexism, even when you don't mean to.

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I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

Miserlou

My friends and I are pretty bad when it comes to insensitive jokes. So much that the slightest bit of our humor is found odd by people we somewhat know. Hell, alot of our jokes can stem around stuff like September 11th on a number of occasions along with Hitler and Jew jokes behind the back of some german chick we know.

We have a close Italian friend that we call "Meatball" constantly to his face, but we all get a laugh out of it. We also call his family the Mafia, make fun of his mom in an Italian accent, spaghetti and so on.But I make fun of myself too (Irish jokes, - alchohol and potatoes). We just know that we are not dileberatly trying to attack one another, which makes it all good. We just don't like people who take their culture way too seriously.

But then again, the same joke can be used for fun and also as an insult.

__________________
"Oh, these pies arn't homeade. They're from a factory............a bomb factory.................they're bombs."

spectre

Family and friends know better than to tell a racist joke in front of me. I've slapped people upside the head for it.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

seretogis

If it is merely a joke, and meant as one, there is no reason for anyone to get upset about it. If it's a joke meant to cruelly demean someone (and it is obvious when this is the case), it is not alright. Telling the difference between the two is sometimes too difficult for some people to handle, so they end up being oversensitive.

I laugh at a lot of gay-jokes and mexican-jokes, because they're funny and make the various stereotypes seem all that more ridiculous. People need to learn to laugh more often.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Peetster

Whether consiously intended or not, demeaning and insulting talk is demeaning and insulting. I would not find a friend insulting me funny. There is an old expression about how the truth comes out when your guard is down, I wish I could remember it.

The_Dude

but dont you think that these jokes come from what you think in the heart of your hearts?

like these stereotypes, doesnt it have some root in your heart?

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

crow_daw

OK, this is a subject very near and dear for me. My friends and I do this stuff ALL the time. My best friend and I are considered by most people to be the funniest two people in our school. We make jokes like this all the time. And I pull no punches. As Steve Martin said, "Comedy isn't pretty."
And it isn't. People who get offended just don't have a sense of humor, and I pity them. I come from a small southern town, and we have a black community in our town. The people from this community are very sensitive to racism, and rightly so, yet they all know me, and I'll crack racist jokes to them sometimes, and they don't get mad, because they know thats just me, and I don't mean any of it.
As previously stated, I'm a southerner, and that makes me HIGHLY susceptible to jokes and wisecracks. So I hear it a lot, hell, I make southern jokes myself. But a joke is a joke. I'm walking proof that stereotypes hold no ground. I'm a southerner with a fairly thick southern accent, yet I'm a very intelligent person, and I have no inbreeding in my family whatsoever. I don't even KNOW anyone who does. So there, just have a sense of humor people, the jokes don't mean anything.
Get over it.

__________________
"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

titsmurf

If the joke would just as easily have worked if they had said a stupid person instead of a black person, I take offense at the stereotype. Racism is not a joking matter to me. But if the joke is about chinese people being small, for example, and it's funny, I laugh.

titsmurf

This cartoon, for example, I not only take offense at, I would gladly kick whoever drew this in the balls.

BBtB

There is a fine line for everything. I.E. even I think the above cartoon is to far although I would just roll my eyes and ignore it. Some people have no sense of humor. On both sides. There are some people who just can not take a joke no matter how well it is said and others who just can not deliver a joke at all. I rarely make racist jokes anymore. My particular brand of humor has MOSTLY grown past that. Which is to say if I am making fun of a particular person (normally a political figure or something) then I might make a racist crack about him. But I rarely say broad sterotypical jokes. I think people are over senstive though. I mean a joke is a joke. A bad joke is a bad joke but it is still a joke. I personally don't think any body deserves worse then rolled eyes and possibly walking away. People suing others over jokes is just ridicules. I mean with the exception of the co worker (or other non friend you can't get distance yourself from for whatever reason) who feels the need to CONSTANTLY crack a racist/sexist/whatnot joke at your expense and you allready have tried to go through the regular paths (I.E. Complaining to management ) several times, THEN I could see possibly doing a lawsuit. Past that though people just need to get over themselves.

__________________
Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

Dentyne

I think that the vast majority of people need to lighten up its only a joke.

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Is that fish ?

rat

"Free Thought and Freedom"
Thank you for the tenacity you've shown in having me here. I know the University gave you the financial and logistical burden of my visit here, and I appreciate what you've done against those heavy odds. So for me, please give yourselves a big round of applause.

I remember my son, when he was five, explaining to his kindergarten class what his father did for a living. "My Daddy," he said, "pretends to be people." Fortunately there've been quite a few of them. There were Prophets from the Old and New Testaments, a couple of Christian saints, generals of various nationalities and different centuries, several kings, three American presidents, a French cardinal and a couple of geniuses, including Michelangelo.

It's been my good fortune to explore several great men who have made a difference... risen above the ordinary to change the course of human events. So as I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: If my Creator gave me the gift to connect you with the hearts and minds of these great men, then I should use that same gift to reconnect you with something even more important: your own sense of individual purpose.

When he dedicated the memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said this about those troubled times: "We are now engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure." In many ways, those words ring true again. I believe that today, right here and now, we are again engaged in a great civil war. And this campus is one of many battlegrounds.

The war I'm referring to is cultural rather than military, but there's something very vital at stake. Today the battle is for your hearts and minds, for the freedom to think the way you choose to think, to follow that moral compass that points to what's right.

Let me offer an example. A couple of years ago I was swore in as president of the National Rifle Association. I believe strongly in the Bill of Rights, and its Second Amendment provision to keep and bear arms as one of those rights. I felt I could make a difference – that it was the right thing to do. And that's when the bombshells of the cultural war began to blow up all around me.

To some, I went straight from Moses to the devil. To some, I fell from celluloid saint to cultural sinner, because I felt obligated to defend an individual freedom our Constitution protects.

At first I thought the issue was just about guns. Should law-abiding citizens be able to own them, as the Founding Fathers mandated, or should a Big Brother government be allowed to dismantled the Bill of Rights? Seems simple enough, right?

Well, since then I've learned that the gun debate is a lot more complicated.What I confronted when I became president of the NRA was an overwhelming Orwellian tyranny sweeping this country, a fanatic fervor of politically correct thought and language.

Zealotry is not a pretty sight. It's ugly in the streets of Tel Aviv, where misguided young men strap bombs to their bodies and shatter not only mortar and steel, but also the lives of the innocent.

We used to think we were above all that. Then a federal building in Oklahoma City exploded, and we realized that the very same ugliness can smolder among us.

More and more we are fueled by anger, a fury fed by those who profit from it. Democrats hate Republicans. Gays hate straights.Women hate men. Liberals hate conservatives. Vegetarians hate meat eaters. Gun banners hate gun owners.

Politicians, the media, even the entertainment industry is keenly aware that heated controversy wins votes, snares ratings and keeps the box office humming.They are experts at dangling the bait, and Americans are eager to rise to it. Our culture has replaced the bloody arena fights of ancient Rome with stage fights on TV with Sally, Ricki, Jerry, Jenny and Rosie. Fear of ideas creates more divisions. As a result, we are becoming increasingly fragmented as a people. Our one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all now seems more like the fractured streets of Beirut, echoing with anger.

Back in the midst of another troubled era, as a young actor, I did something that was definitely not fashionable in Hollywood. I marched with Dr. Martin Luther King in 1963 long before it became fashionable in that strange city. It could have cost me my career.

That was a time when a black American couldn't even get a job as a union stage hand.

Those of us in the Civil Rights movement battled the studios over this blatant discrimination, and we won. Now black actors and directors are among the best in our business. I'm proud that some of us helped open those doors. Two years later, as President of the Screen Actors Guild, I walked behind Dr. King, leading the Arts contingent in his March on Washington. That was a proud day.

Now, fast-forward thirty-five years. I recently told an audience that I felt that white pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or whatever color pride you prefer. For those words, I was called a racist.

I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told another audience that gay rights should be given no greater consideration than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe.

I served in World War II, and if you saw "Saving Private Ryan" you have some insight into what a savage conflict that was. But when I told an audience that I thought law-abiding gun owners were being singled out for cultural stereotyping much like Jews were under the Axis powers, I was branded an anti-Semite.

I love this country with all my heart. But when I challenged an audience to resist cultural persecution, I was compared to Timothy McVeigh!

After a couple of years with the culturally correct crosshairs trained on my chest, I must admit it was a whole lot easier being Moses. But I can say this: get involved with a politically unpopular cause and you'll quickly find out who your friends are. I've been blasted from Time Magazine to The Washington Post to the Today Show to the guy down the street. They say "that's enough, Chuck. It may be your opinion, but it's not language authorized for public consumption."

Well, if we'd been enamored with political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys.

1776 wasn't all that long ago, and we've got plenty of good genes left to fire our passion for freedom.

In his book The End of Sanity, Martin Gross writes that "blatantly irrational behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, new anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every direction..."

"Underneath, the nation is roiling. Americans know something without a name is undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it comes to separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong ... and they don't like it."

Let's stroll around your own campus just for a minute, and see if we can find a few examples. One that comes to mind is Freedom Magazine. Last year, I'm told, funding for this conservative campus publication was cut out entirely because members of the student senate didn't care for its message. "Didn't care for its message?"

Now I don't know if the philosophy expressed on those pages was right or wrong. But it deserves to be heard, don't you think? Isn't that what college is all about? Examining a diversity of ideas before you draw conclusions?

I've also been told that here on campus, there's a push for more affirmative action in the admissions process.Well, I'm for affirmative action. I believe it starts in grammar school, survives the growing pains of high school, and reaches fruition during college entrance exams.

And I also believe it should be color-blind. I've fought against racism all my life. So why would I tolerate racism in reverse? Skin color litmus tests hearken back to carpetbaggers and Reconstruction. I believe in level playing fields, and the equality that comes with accomplishment. One standard for all, no more and no less.

But we have to be careful here, because telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say. So telling us what to do can't be very far away.

I argue passionately for the freedom to keep an open mind, because in audiences like this one I sense and see America's best and brightest. Brandeis remains a fertile cradle of American academia, and each of you are the best hope we have for a productive, livable, spiritual future.

But I submit that you, and your counterparts in colleges from coast to coast, also appear to be the most socially conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord Bridge. And as long as you shrug your shoulders and abide it, then by the standards of your grandfathers, you are cultural cowards.

If you talk about race, it doesn't make you a racist. If you see distinctions between the genders, it doesn't make you a sexist. If you think critically about a given denomination, it doesn't make you anti-religion. If you accept homosexuality but don't celebrate it, it doesn't make you a homophobe.

A free people can use a new revolution every day, and I challenge you to resist the dogma of cultural and social stereotyping. Don't let America's universities serve as incubators for a rampant epidemic of this new brand of McCarthyism. Stand up, speak out, follow your heart, even if it goes against the conventional grain.

Take heart in the fact that others have walked that same path. Jesus. Joan of Arc. Gandhi.

Jefferson. Lincoln. Martin Luther King. Susan B. Anthony.

I think the germ of disobedience is in our DNA. Who here doesn't feel a certain kinship with the rebellious spirit that tossed that tea into Boston Harbor? It's the same spirit that sent Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that filled our streets with Vietnam War protestors. But let me warn you -- it ain't easy. Dr. King stood on a lot of balconies. The police dogs in Montgomery were vicious. The water cannons in Selma were painful. Modern versions of the same weapons of oppression exist today.

Just a few weeks ago my good friend Wayne LaPierre, head of the National Rifle Association, spoke candidly on national television about the president's gun policies. In return, he was personally and professionally crucified for daring to speak his mind.

During the past eight years, President Clinton has fought hard for every kind of firearm restriction imaginable. Yet at the same time he has, as a matter of policy, refused to vigorously enforce federal gun laws already on the books.

Wayne said that prosecuting felons with firearms is the only proven policy that has cut gun murders --- by half! He watched it work in Richmond, Virginia, under a program called Project Exile. Every felon caught with a firearm there serves a mandatory five years in prison. No plea bargain, no deal. Believe me, not many felons carry firearms in Richmond any more.

The NRA helped fund that project when the Clinton administration wouldn't. So I think Wayne LaPierre spoke the simple truth when he said the president seemed willing to accept a certain amount of firearm-related violence, because enforcement interfered with his personal anti-gun agenda. The words were no more out of Wayne's mouth when the media erupted. For two solid weeks he was demonized, scorned, vilified.

But during those same two weeks, the media was far more interested in reporting what Wayne said than investigating what Clinton did, or failed to do. In fact the President has been miserably lax in enforcing federal gun laws. But it was easier to condemn a good man for making a politically incorrect statement than it was to dig out the facts and exonerate a victim of cultural warfare.

To me, political correctness is just tyranny with manners. The spectacle of Wayne LaPierre's media crucifixion appalled me. Yet at the same time it stiffened my determination to speak out even louder, with all the breath I have, about this cultural cancer that is eating away at our society.

So in closing, let me challenge those good young minds of yours. Dare to consider both sides of any issue. And find the courage to question authority.

Don't always believe everything you hear from a Bill Clinton, or a Dan Rather, a George W. Bush or an Al Gore. Dig deeper than the headlines or the stump speeches or the television news. Don't trust any of us – not a Michael Jordan, or a Dennis Miller, not even Charlton Heston. Because we all have our prejudices, and it's your job to sort through all the rhetoric, weigh and measure each word, and decide on your own.

And then, just as I felt compelled to stand with Dr. King, you'll find yourself compelled to act, too.

When a fatherless kid in a crackhouse finds a stolen gun and shoots a schoolmate, stand up and say giving drug dealers triggerlocks isn't a solution.

When a mugger sues his elderly victim for defending herself, jam the switchboard at the district attorney's office and raise the roof with your outrage.

Or when your university is pressured to lower standards until 80% of the students graduate with honors, choke the halls of the board of regents in a unified show of disgruntled force.

When an 8-year-old boy pecks a girl's cheek on a playground and gets hauled into court for sexual harassment, descend on that school like avenging angels ... until someone in charge exercises common sense.

And when someone you've elected is seduced by the power of the office and betrays you, muster the collective will to banish them from public life.

Because unless you do these things, freedom as we have known it cannot endure.

So I challenge you to take up the torch that freed exiles, founded religions, defeated tyrants and provoked an armed and roused rabble to break out of bondage and build this country.

There is still some of them in all of us. So don't give up just yet. We're not quite finished with their revolution.

Thank you.

--Charlton Heston

__________________

Sparhawk

There's definitely a line, that's hard to describe so I'll paraphrase that oft-misquoted justice's line "I know it when I [hear] it." And most folks do too. The way you can tell when it's been crossed is when everyone suddenly stops laughing and starts looking at you with a serious expression on their face.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Cynthetiq

sure.... let me recall an event that changed someone's life...

An intern here at MTV was in the process from going from intern to Staff position. It was going smoothly as he was an intern here for over 1 year. Pretty much if you interned for the IT group, you were guaranteed a job. Our diverse culture here is up front and in your face. It's pervasive in all aspects of the company.

So he's doing his work coming back from visiting a customer and walks into the computer lab. He sees his friend and hears the boombox playing some hip hop rap song, and he says,"Turn that f*ckin' ni**er music down." Which his friend quickly turned down, and they both continued doing their work.

Somehow someone else over heard that and thought it was inappropriate for the workplace, and brought it up to HR. This man was summarily dismissed withnin 4 hours of making the comment. Didn't matter that he had never had a complaint from any customers, never called in sick, was rated one of the best technicians by his peers, he was still let go because of something someone else was offended by.

Next story...

Two close friends man and woman, they joke around alot. Worked together for 4 years. One day she's in a bad mood and is difficult to work with, he comments, "What are you on the rag?" and within 8 hours of making the comment, he's being disciplined by his manager, and is being removed from the account.

Final story...
This one has a happy ending...because this person wasn't fired.
One of my technicians used to sit at lunch and chat on the phone with his friends, talking about the girls he met the night before at the club, blah blah nice ass, nice rack, etc. Little did he know that the lady on the other side of his cubicle didn't appreciate it. She took it up to me and I had to talk to him and tell him that he had to be cautious because it could be construed as sexual harassment.

Now, take it for what you may... but it's all about what's appropriate and where it's appropriate.

I can turn up my music in my office as loud as I want, but it's not nice to the next person. So I am considerate because I don't want the person next to me rockin' me out too much. Same thing with hearing these things. Have some consideration for someone besides you and your friends.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

The_Dude

nice examples there, but when i joke, it's private.

there is absolutely no chance anyone will hear it.

it's usually when we're hanging out or driving.

i wont even dream about saying stuff like that in public

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Cynthetiq

yes, but remember the second was between two friends....and he was joking with her.... but she did not take it as such.

it just takes one time to cross that line...

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

GakFace

Personally, Its ok if everyone else realizes its a joke.. AND you know they'll laugh at it... Cause if they're not laughing, then they're probly insulted. So in other words, just know who you're talking to. I mean George Carlin will make feminist jokes, but do you honestly think He'll make one, even to close buddies, downtown near a feminist rally?.. I sincerely doubt it.

__________________
RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

The_Dude

exactly, when we're joking, i say a lot of gay jokes.

but if the disussion turns serious, i'll turn into a staunch supporter of gay rights.

you joke about things you dont really believe in.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Tophat665

Hey, don't pick on the feminists. Feminism is so cute.

What you say to people who know you well enough to call you on it effectively if you're out of line is your own business. Outside of that, I couldn't tell you if it was right or wrong, but I would say that it were unwise.

__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

The Answer Man

No, I don't believe it's wrong. If someone get's offended, why are they even listening to me? Me and my buddies we crack all kinds of racial/sexist/you name it jokes when we're doing stuff. Free speech, etc. Most people have a sense of humor big enough to understand when we are joking. I think it's horrible that you have to guard your mouth like that. What's next, thought-crime?

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I don't have enough imagination for sig.

Arock

This is a great topic!

Who cares! Like many have said, people need to toughen up a little bit. You know I meet a few black people here and there and I've never said anything to my friends that I haven't said to the black guys I've met. Sure, I say some insesitive shit sometimes, but I say it about everyone. In general, I'm an asshole. I don't care who you are, I don't think you can hide behind your sensitivity to your racial/sexual issues. More specifically, if you're gay, I don't think you get to be off limits because you're afraid of me bringing up gay shit. If you're stupid I'm certainly going to call you on that.
It works both ways though. I think the golden rule is that if you're going to go to the trouble to say something offensive, you better be funny about it. And not just offensive for the sake of calling someone a slur, but legitimate humor.
Anyone can say anything they about me, as long as it's funny then I'm fair game too.

__________________
The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat

Cynthetiq

Humor has ties in culture, which is why some Americans don't find British humor funny. So if someone was making humorous remarks that they thought was funny, and you didn't, you probably would take offense.

I'm not saying that you have to be politically correct. I'm saying that you just have to remember that you could hurt someone's feelings. That's it. You could. That's all.

And in doing so, you may lose a friend, a job, an opportunity. As Jaelin can attest, he's lost some friends because they were just "joking" with his wife.

I'm a ball buster, a certain group of people I get together with, we can reduce someone to a gurgling twitching piece of flesh. It's all in fun, but sometimes can go to far, and can be just downright mean.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Azharen

I personally think if an off color, pun intended, joke is told with the intent to hurt another person emotionally; then yes it is very wrong. My really good friends and I tell each other some pretty fucked up stuff when we hang out and none of us take offense cuz we we're just messin around. Mind you there are women in this group aswell. When dumb ppl listen in other ppls convos and hear something they didn't didn't like; they shouldn't have been so damn nosey. Over sensitive whiney ppl who don't know enuf about ppl to tell when some1 is joking piss me off. A reasonably intelligent adult can tell when some1 is truely trying to be hurtful and racist, etc. I end my rant here less I go one.

-Azh - Fuck dis PC Shit, BYOTCH!!!!

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To the True Warrior, Death is merely an Ally...

Lebell

What you say in private is private, but it may become so ingrained that you blurt it out in public, usually at an inopportune moment.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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rat

I think the main problem lies not in the fact that any particular subject is "sensitive" but rather in what is generally deemed the "small man's complaint." The smaller someone is (proverbially, not in physical size necessarily) and the more incosequential their position in society is, the more they feel the need and burning desire to be heard, accepted and understood. That's what most people consider "interest groups"--the groups that are very small but have big voices in various areas of national and local policy-making here in the States and in companies.

Yea, I sound like some hyper-conservative against the proper "minority rights" of certain groups. But let me put things in perspective. I grew up with a grandfather on my mother's side that used every foul term there is in the english language and "goddamnit jesus christ" was probably the cleanest phrase to leave his mouth any given day. Profanity and its meaning has been ingrained in me since I was roughly five. On my father's side, I have a grandfather that is one of the most racially and religiously bigotted men that still walks the streets of America. The nicest term for a black person I've ever heard come out of his mouth was "darkie." That's been in my environment since I was old enough to speak and understand the english language.

I have two of the most politically uncorrect men there are as my grandfathers, and they shaped the way I thought as a young child, an adolescent and as the young man I am today. It is because of influences like theirs that have opened my eyes and mind to look beyond the words and look at the meaning behind them. For one grandfather, it was long years of habitual profanity that altered his conception of what was "acceptable" language to make one's point, nothing more. He bore no malice towards my grandmother when he'd say "Christ Mary, pass the goddamn potatoes" However, my other grandfather had had bigotry so ingrained in his mentality from a young age, that even now, at the age of 83, 40 years after the major civil rights movements in America, he still cannot bring himself to consider minorities human beings themselves. And by denying their humanity, he has removed all traces of humanity in himself. One of my grandfathers I still love and respect. The other I have the deepest of shame and disappointment for being of the same bloodline.

Now, the same holds true in my views of racial jokes, religious jokes, and other forms of non-politicially correct jokes. If you're telling the joke for nothing more than the reaction (laughter or groans) received, that's one thing with me. But if you're telling it because you really do think you're superior to the butt of the joke, then the joke is on you. And the problem for most people concerning non-PC behavior is their inability to discern the intent behind someone's words, even with visual and auditory cues and body language on top of everything else. And it is the inability of people to laugh at themselves that causes such great concern about the contents of jokes in the workplace and public. The first lesson I ever learned that separated me from my childhood was the ability to not take myself seriously. Self-derisive and self-deprecating humor are two signs of legitimate self-worth. Because if you're laughing at yourself, then everyone else is actually laughing with you when they say they are, rather than laughing at you while you squirm under their scrutiny. Be the bigger man, tell a joke about yourself before you do about someone else. And the next time you hear a joke, take it at face value, and don't judge the teller by the content of the joke unless the intent is to hurt someone deliberately.

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YourNeverThere

hey i remeber that something awful post, that was great, i love when they make fun of racists

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The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

seretogis

Either your wife is wound a bit too tight, or your "friends" were tormenting her, not just joking around. There is a difference between being cruel and joking, although some may be unable to tell the difference.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

WhoaitsZ

it is never okay to intentionally hurt one's feelings. (unless they are nazis)

that wha most 'jokes' do, all in good or bad taste either way. a lot of people can be touchy about certain things. ie,
I wouldn't take offense at all about a joke concerning walking or disability. however, most 'dead baby' and animal cruely jokes make my rage meter go high. I've lost a nephew to SIDS years ago so most dead baby jokes just don't go well with me.

HOWEVER, i have enough sense to know it is a Joke. so why take offense in a mistake? That is just imature.

the world is an evil and cruel place. if you cannot deal with people who joke or put you down, i feel bad for you cuz its only the begining.

and i loathe your run-of-the-mill racists jokes because most are not meant for a real chuckle; they are intended to actually hurt or make an evil person laugh... that is fucking wrong.

if i am with friends i know aren't racists i can see no reason not to chuckle at racists jokes that are not cruel. thus them being my friends, i know how they are meant to be taken. if i hear such a joke from a stranger I am more likely to get pissed.

how about this: my philosophy on life.. if you can't take a joke you need to be a hermit. if you can only say hateful things you should remove your tongue.

Arock

One thing I failed to mention is that there needs to be a balance. I don't condone picking on someone- making them the butt of the jokes. I don't care what the content is, if you single someone out and break them down that's not funny, that's cruel.
And yes, I agree that sometime these race/sex sensitive discussions or joke can sometimes hurt someone's feelings. I think if it's malicious in context then that's not what we're really talking about. But "harmless" or "no offense, buddy" jokes that are racial or sexual in nature I'm not going to apologize for. Perhaps someone's feelings get a workout over it; I'm not sweating it.

I guess what I'm saying, and this is probably a terrible example, is that I treat this the same way I treat handicapped people. (bear with me here this is a hard thought for me to get out of my brain) Maybe they're in a wheelchair but that doesn't mean I should walk on eggshells around them and pity them. That's just a person who doesn't walk, that's all. Now, I'm not saying I'm going to make jokes at the expense of their legs- I'm saying I'm not going to treat them like a different person. That works the same way for everyone else.

Maybe it is cultural. I don't know if it's just my family or southern families in general. We've always gone through life with jokes and humour. Funerals are always filled with laughter. We are cutting, and mean sometimes but I think it's healthy. When my mom had a stroke we all used this same kind of behavior to get us through. We didn't curb any of our biting remarks because she was in the room, and sometimes we even give it to her. She's never pulled any punches and still doesn't. I guess we're just not very sensitive people.
If someone is offended by what I say most of the time I just don't care. If I'm actually being an asshole then I guess I feel guilty about it. Most of the time I think people are just way too uptight.

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The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat