Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community (https://thetfp.com/tfp/)
-   General Discussion (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/)
-   -   Esquire Article: I Think You're Fat (https://thetfp.com/tfp/general-discussion/124626-esquire-article-i-think-youre-fat.html)

QuasiMondo 09-25-2007 10:02 AM

Esquire Article: I Think You're Fat
 
http://www.esquire.com/print-this/honesty0707?x

The writer and the man he interviews, psychotherapist Brad Blanton, call it Radical Honesty. It's a rehash of just telling people the truth, however brutal it may be. While it may seem like a refreshing idea to be bluntly honest with everybody you come across in all situations, is it really the right way to do things? One can see how easily Radical Honesty can be misconstrued as being an asshole, or worse assholes hiding behind Radical Honesty.

Being direct in the advice you give? Sure, be straightforward. Just blurting your mind even at the risk of offending others around you? Not always the appropriate thing to do, methinks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esquire
I Think You're Fat   click to show 


Plan9 09-25-2007 10:18 AM

Awesome. "Fuck You" IS positive communication... if you're an asshole.

Infinite_Loser 09-25-2007 10:18 AM

Good in concept, horrible in practice.

The_Jazz 09-25-2007 10:21 AM

Great, so now there's another excuse to be rude.

Plan9 09-25-2007 10:22 AM

Hahaha... excuses? I think society is looking for excuses to be polite.

Me-me-me strikes again.

mixedmedia 09-25-2007 10:29 AM

How about being radically honest and admit that there's nothing to gain but smug self-gratification in calling someone fat or any other rude comment that only serves to make you feel better than someone else.

SecretMethod70 09-25-2007 10:34 AM

Man, I was gonna post this a few weeks ago but never got around to it.

I think it's actually pretty interesting, though moreso as an exercise than a way of life. Being radically honest for a period of time can open the doorway into realizing it's ok to say what you're thinking more often than you think.
Quote:

Great, so now there's another excuse to be rude.
Having read the full article, this doesn't actually seem to be true. It can be mistaken that way - and was by the author - but the guy who is promoting this "radical honesty" basically says that you need to be absurd when you say things, this way it also disarms the people you're addressing. Honestly, it made me think of Patrick Bateman (American Psycho). Waitress comes over, "How's your coffee sir?" Man responds, smiling, "Actually, it's fucking terrible and I'd like a new cup." The smile, of course, is key ;)

If you haven't actually read the article before responding, please do so. Because, as misguided as this concept may or may not be, it is not about simply being rude, and that is explicitly pointed out later in the article.

sky_driver 09-25-2007 10:50 AM

Be honest, but be sincere and not just mean.

Willravel 09-25-2007 11:06 AM

Honestly?

I'm pissed off because my $60 wireless mouse has a shitton of lag and it's wasting my precious time. I leave it alone for like 10 minutes and I have to either wait 3 minutes for it to work again or I have to unplug it and then plug it in and lose it's ability to use side scrolling and special buttons. It's bad enough my fucking Apple mighty mouse was junk, now Logitech sucks too? Who's dick do I have to suck to get a decent mouse?

I don't see rudeness there. It's honest. Yes, I curse without my filters on. And I complain. It's a part of being human. But it's not rude. It's often rude to lie, in fact. When in the article the author tells little 5 year old Allison that the bug is dead, he was being honest with her about something that children should be aware of, in my opinion (and my opinion is often right). The fact that she ran off to complain just shows that her parents don't really know what they're doing. If you're old enough to understand the concept of life you should understand death. Even if you're a theist, which I suspect her parents are. Yep, I'm condescending without my filter, too, but rude?

Banton, on the other hand, is just a prick. He's laughing at the times when he says "shit" like he's the 8 year old son of a drunk. He's inconsistent with his own bullshit, and it's apparent that this whole thing is about being allowed to be rude. He needs to take a seminar on how he's an idiot and he's screwing up a good idea. And how he's an alcoholic, and I'm sure very few people he meets respect him at all. I know I don't and I've only read an account of him.

I would have approached this thing completely from a different standpoint. What use is there in Radical Honesty? REAL FUCKING CHANGE. That's right, you're honest so you can self examine better and learn where you need honest improvement. If you find you curse too much, maybe it's time to admit that cursing not only makes you sound stupid, but it serves no purpose. Time to stop cursing not only to everyone else, but to yourself. If you find that when you're being radically honest you treat women like shit, well then it's time for you to fix that. You know that women don't deserve to be treated like shit, obviously, so you teach yourself to be honestly respectful. That's the bottom line. This is a tool for self examination and self betterment.

Cynthetiq 09-25-2007 11:15 AM

I remember turning 21 and coming to NYC and sitting with my ball busting friends. They are brutally honest as all the ball busting isn't any good if we're just making things up, it has to be truthful. It taught me to be moreso.

I used to be just a nice guy, not so much any longer. I tend to say things how I see them.

Quote:

That's one thing I've noticed: When I am radically honest, people become radically honest themselves.
Nothing summed it up more than that for me. It is exactly my experience. It is how Skogafoss and I communicate. I tell her things that are on my mind as they are. There isn't much to just yelling and stomping feet, but to state why you are yelling and stomping feet, letting that communication sink in as the emotions pass over you becomes the bonding communication.

Shauk 09-25-2007 11:57 AM

as for telling people they're fat, it needs to be done. Obesity is higher than ever due to a number of reasons and i can't help but feel that the "political correctness" movement and all the daytime tv specials on "fat people have feelings too" have tried to make us tiptoe around the issue.

sorry, I don't believe in catering to the ego of other people if they are my friends or not. I wish more people would call me out for being fat or other people in thier lives for it. (it means I would have been more inclined to think about what I put in my body if someone had called me fat recently) its a variable that people have control over, and if you let them know that they are slacking, then they might feel the need to do something about it. It's their body! their health! they need to take care of it, not have people lie and me like "oooh noo you aren't fat at all! you look good!" its bullshit and I've always hated people who are "polite" and slather the conversations in fake smiles.

and people who call other people fat have entitlement to feeling better about themselves because they just told the truth instead of being "polite" which is another social convention of "acceptable lying"

maybe its just that my pet peeve is dishonesty. I really can't handle people who lie.

this is a funny article to me because I've always been kicking this concept around in my head as "the way to be" and yes, it saves so much time to cut the shit.

analog 09-25-2007 12:26 PM

There's a difference between honesty and just pointing out uncomfortable things just to be an asshole... but if it's the truth, where's the beef?

Just because people don't want to own up to things and live a psychologically protected life devoid of confrontation doesn't make the observations less true.

So the question becomes: Is it rude to be honest? Only if the person with whom you're speaking isn't comfortable with honesty. Etiquette, as we know it, is based on lies and deception. I'm not sure why that doesn't bother more people.

Now, I will keep things to myself if they don't need to be said- but if I feel like saying something, I'm going to say it. Like if someone is wearing something really stupid, I won't say anything- unless I feel like their outfit embarrasses me by association. Like once, a friend of a friend (who I didn't know) showed up dressed like Neo when we met up with him downtown.

I said, "hey Neo, can you take off the Matrix jacket," (calling it a "jacket" pissed him off, which wasn't intentional) "because no one is going to be firing any slow-motion bullets at you tonight." (PS this was a few months ago, not like back when the movie was out and popular or anything)

It was embarrassing. He looked ludicrous. I've gone through a mild goth phase (more just the clothing, never the piercings or blood play or makeup), and when I dressed that way, I was going to a club of that style. If I went to a trendy club dressed goth, I'd have looked stupid, and vice-versa.

I didn't say it just to jab him, I said it because there were implications for his mode of dress. And while my friends and I aren't hanging out downtown "to look cool", there's still a certain level of, "could you please learn to dress yourself so you don't look like you just wandered out of a cosplay convention?"

Why should anyone hold their tongue for the sake of someone's feelings when they themselves have to suffer?

flat5 09-25-2007 12:34 PM

..

Cynthetiq 09-25-2007 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog
So the question becomes: Is it rude to be honest? Only if the person with whom you're speaking isn't comfortable with honesty. Etiquette, as we know it, is based on lies and deception. I'm not sure why that doesn't bother more people.

It is? How is cultural structure based on lies and deception? Sending thank you notes and putting a napkin on your lap is deceiving someone that you are actually a neanderthal that doesn't wipe their mouths unless it's on their tattered sleeve?
Quote:

Originally Posted by analog
Now, I will keep things to myself if they don't need to be said- but if I feel like saying something, I'm going to say it. Like if someone is wearing something really stupid, I won't say anything- unless I feel like their outfit embarrasses me by association. Like once, a friend of a friend (who I didn't know) showed up dressed like Neo when we met up with him downtown.

I said, "hey Neo, can you take off the Matrix jacket," (calling it a "jacket" pissed him off, which wasn't intentional) "because no one is going to be firing any slow-motion bullets at you tonight." (PS this was a few months ago, not like back when the movie was out and popular or anything)

It was embarrassing. He looked ludicrous. I've gone through a mild goth phase (more just the clothing, never the piercings or blood play or makeup), and when I dressed that way, I was going to a club of that style. If I went to a trendy club dressed goth, I'd have looked stupid, and vice-versa.

I didn't say it just to jab him, I said it because there were implications for his mode of dress. And while my friends and I aren't hanging out downtown "to look cool", there's still a certain level of, "could you please learn to dress yourself so you don't look like you just wandered out of a cosplay convention?"

Why should anyone hold their tongue for the sake of someone's feelings when they themselves have to suffer?

sounds a little more like not accepting your friend for what your friend is as noted by the sarcastic remark. the remark itself isn't the honesty. I think you didn't read the article because being honest would have been you explaining why YOU were feeling the way you were feeling. As far as I can tell from your description, the only implication of his dress was lack of conformity, again, nothing to do with you being honest with him.

Willravel 09-25-2007 12:41 PM

You know it was funny. As I was writing my above post, I kept thinking to myself that unfiltered, I'm not dissimilar to Analog or Ustwo, only with a hard liberal twist. I wonder if we would all end up fitting into that archetype if we turned off our filters, and I also wonder if, even though both of them take a lot of shit for being so harsh, maybe they're on to something. Now it occurs to me that if I were to adopt a comparative style to analog, I'd probably be banned (which raises other questions).

Analog, what do you think about your own personal philosophy when it comes to harsh truths verses being polite and respectful? I mean I'm not a moderator, and I'm not trying to pass judgment, but I'm sure you must be aware that there is the occasional line walking by many members, even on occasion me. Is it bad because it's close to breaking the rules, or is it good because you're being honest?

QuasiMondo 09-25-2007 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog
There's a difference between honesty and just pointing out uncomfortable things just to be an asshole... but if it's the truth, where's the beef?...
Why should anyone hold their tongue for the sake of someone's feelings when they themselves have to suffer?

The problem is that what many people will pass off as "truth" really isn't. It's just their own biased opinions. Brute honesty then becomes an opportunity to sprout these "truths" without shame, even if you're a bigoted supremaicst, male chauvanist, nationalistic xenophobe or whatever. How helpful is it then?

Cynthetiq 09-25-2007 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel
You know it was funny. As I was writing my above post, I kept thinking to myself that unfiltered, I'm not dissimilar to Analog or Ustwo, only with a hard liberal twist. I wonder if we would all end up fitting into that archetype if we turned off our filters, and I also wonder if, even though both of them take a lot of shit for being so harsh, maybe they're on to something. Now it occurs to me that if I were to adopt a comparative style to analog, I'd probably be banned (which raises other questions).

Analog, what do you think about your own personal philosophy when it comes to harsh truths verses being polite and respectful? I mean I'm not a moderator, and I'm not trying to pass judgment, but I'm sure you must be aware that there is the occasional line walking by many members, even on occasion me. Is it bad because it's close to breaking the rules, or is it good because you're being honest?

Is name calling a position of honesty? Or is it posturing?

Being honest is telling things as they are, but not necessarily the name calling bits, which I get exactly from that article. Yes, the name calling has it's place because the person again was posturing, Boss is a dick, Editor is a dick. How is that expressing honest communication?

I'd also add that the "I may be banned because I say this..." is similar posturing.

QuasiMondo 09-25-2007 12:56 PM

When it comes to etiquette, there's what folks in the military call tact. Going by the dictionary, it's defined as, "a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense; skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations." More basically, it's the art of getting your point across to somebody who has more stripes than you without losing your own stripes. Radical honest lacks tact and to me, seems designed to piss people off just for the sake of it. How productive can that really be?

Willravel 09-25-2007 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
Is name calling a position of honesty? Or is it posturing?

It depends on the name. If I call you a shithead, it's probably posturing. If I call someone an idiot, I could be being totally honest.

snowy 09-25-2007 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog
There's a difference between honesty and just pointing out uncomfortable things just to be an asshole... but if it's the truth, where's the beef?

Agreed.

Plus, one thing I was glad that the author of the article carried away from Blanton's ideas was the idea to be honest to children. Telling white lies to kids is terrible. I always inform the parents I sit for that if a child asks me a question, I will not lie. I may tell the child to ask their mom or dad for an answer instead of me, but if a child asks me about death, or where farts come from, or why people don't like President Bush, I'm not going to insult their intelligence by lying to them.

That philosophy actually works in my favor as a childcare worker, and makes me popular with parents and children alike. My nickname from my former family was "Smart Lindsay" because the kids knew if they asked me a question, I had a straight (and usually thoughtful) answer for them.

Cynthetiq 09-25-2007 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel
It depends on the name. If I call you a shithead, it's probably posturing. If I call someone an idiot, I could be being totally honest.

true to both statements but how is that benefitting the point of honesty which is to bridge communication. The point of the brutal honesty isn't to just say something and feel better about yourself, but to realize that your honesty is getting to the other ideas that need to be attended to instead of spending energy posturing. So again, the statement "you're and idiot" serves little in the honesty communication. Just like the "I think you're a prick for making me do this." Because truly the communication is "I'm resentful with you for making me do this."

analog 09-25-2007 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
It is? How is cultural structure based on lies and deception? Sending thank you notes and putting a napkin on your lap is deceiving someone that you are actually a neanderthal that doesn't wipe their mouths unless it's on their tattered sleeve?

I was only referring to the interpersonal etiquette of withholding opinions of things to spare feelings... not all etiquette of all kinds. I'm not sure why you'd think I meant all etiquette... but that's my fault for not being more clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel
...I kept thinking to myself that unfiltered, I'm not dissimilar to Analog or Ustwo, only with a hard liberal twist.

I'm a conservative? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel
I wonder if we would all end up fitting into that archetype if we turned off our filters, and I also wonder if, even though both of them take a lot of shit for being so harsh, maybe they're on to something. Now it occurs to me that if I were to adopt a comparative style to analog, I'd probably be banned (which raises other questions).

No, you wouldn't be banned... because if the way I posted was ban-worthy, it wouldn't matter if I was a member of staff or not. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel
Analog, what do you think about your own personal philosophy when it comes to harsh truths verses being polite and respectful? I mean I'm not a moderator, and I'm not trying to pass judgment, but I'm sure you must be aware that there is the occasional line walking by many members, even on occasion me. Is it bad because it's close to breaking the rules, or is it good because you're being honest?

I'm not a moderator either- haven't been for almost a month now. :)

But I can tell you that when I was, my "style" was not always preferred. Lots of people walk the line... the difference is not whether or not you believe you're always on the "right" side of the line, but how others perceive where you are in relation to that line. That's the way it must be, though... we need others to show us where the line really is, because... be it ego, or being "too close"... we can't always see what we're doing by ourselves.

I don't think of my posting as disrespectful- just because a person doesn't want to hear the truth, doesn't automatically make it disrespectful. Also, "respect" is not always a black and white issue. Take a person who makes many threads to complain about something terrible, and takes no one's advice, ever, and continues to wonder why they're in a bad situation. At some point, someone has to step in and give some tough love- brutal honesty that's most likely not respectful, but definitely much-needed. It might be disrespectful out of context, but there always comes a time when pleasantries need to be tossed to the wind.

Many people see a "grace period" between when the person starts complaining and when it's finally ok to tell someone to knock it the hell off, quit doing what they're doing, and move on- in very definitive, not-so-rosey terms. I, however, go for "tough love" (brutal honesty) as soon as I feel that person is not getting the message. If I swoop in to give someone my REAL $0.02, and others haven't yet given up making the point in a nicer way, then it's perceived as harsh.

I am not harsh on purpose. I just tell "the truth"- as I see it- and that's it. When people don't want to hear the truth, it's perceived as harsh. I accept that it's possible to be seen as harsh, but I know that i'm doing right for myself by remaining truthful. I've had some people tell me that I don't have a monopoly on "the truth", but here's the thing: everyone owns the truth. For every person, the truth is theirs. Just like with opinions, everyone has their version of reality. If you don't agree with my take on something, I welcome a conversation about it- but "the truth" will always be true to me, as your version of "the truth" will always be true to you.

:)

MSD 09-25-2007 09:16 PM

To be honest, he lost me when he said that Vanilla Coke was a bad idea.

highthief 09-26-2007 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia
How about being radically honest and admit that there's nothing to gain but smug self-gratification in calling someone fat or any other rude comment that only serves to make you feel better than someone else.

Quoted for veracity.

Nisses 09-26-2007 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia
How about being radically honest and admit that there's nothing to gain but smug self-gratification in calling someone fat or any other rude comment that only serves to make you feel better than someone else.


can't be quoted enough imho.

There are some good sides to this way of living, but the bad outweigh it by a LOT.

Baraka_Guru 09-26-2007 03:54 AM

Yes, well said, mixedmedia. Honesty in and of itself isn't of much value. What you say should have a purpose, and one should always realize the power of words.

MSD 09-26-2007 07:08 AM

If friends told me I looked fat instead of just hearing it from the bullies in middle and high school, I probably would have thought about it more seriously than if people always told me "no, you're not fat, you carry your weight well," and estimated my weight at 50 pounds under what it is. I'm 70 pounds overweight now and have to work hard to lose weight soon because my blood sugar is tending to get too high and i don't want to end up diabetic.

Ustwo 09-26-2007 07:14 AM

I fully endorse this product and or service.

Really.

While I've never been into 'radical honesty', I'm far more likely to tell the truth than most people. This of course makes me an asshole at times, but I've learned to not care all that much.

The only person I'm truly radically honest with is my wife which is why we have perhaps the strongest marriage I know of. It started the first month we met and has continued since.

That first month had one of the hallmark holidays in it and I knew she was expecting something from her new boyfriend for this made up holiday. Well I got her some candy and when I gave it to her I told her something like 'I got this because I knew you were expecting something for this made up holiday but its the last time.'

I kept that promise and never have done anything for any of the Hallmark holidays, nor has she for me. Likewise when she did the first 'does this make me look fat?' question, I told her yes because it did. She did the expected stereotypical girlfriend thing but when I explained that, unlike her friends, I was the only one who was going to be honest about it, she came to her senses and now when she askes me how this or that looks she knows when I say it looks good it does.

Then years later when she WAS getting fat, I told her that too. I know this is the horror of horrors to some women out there, but fuck it, if you are fat you are fat. I've know at least one marriage that was bjorked because the husband couldn't tell his wife he was no longer attracted to her phyically and I'll be damned if I can't tell the truth to my wife.

Now the wife has become a gym rat, and while my telling her she got fat had little to do with it, real exercise motivation comes from within, shes comfortable with my assessments. Just so you don't think this is a one way mean Mr. Ustwo, she does the same for me, and when my love handles get to big, she lets me know.

Personally I'd love a day where everyone were forced to be radically honest, some people really need it. If you don't know you have a problem, and no one has the guts to tell you, how do you know to change?

sapiens 09-26-2007 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo
Personally I'd love a day where everyone were forced to be radically honest, some people really need it. If you don't know you have a problem, and no one has the guts to tell you, how do you know to change?

I can see the possible benefits to radical honesty among close friends, significant others, etc. However, I don't think that radical honesty works on a larger scale. Deception (or tact) is useful in a variety of social contexts.

Challah 09-26-2007 08:05 AM

Maybe this was in the article and I missed it, but is it appropriate to tell the truth without being prompted by another to do so? What I mean is, according to Mr Blanton, should you tell your wife she's fat, even if she doesn't ask? There are a few examples in the article where this is done, but where do you draw the line? Should you delve into lengthy rants about people you're speaking with? If I were absolutely honest and brought forward everything I think about people every time I speak with them, I wouldn't have time for anything else.

Plan9 09-26-2007 08:07 AM

Golden Rule - GO!

sapiens 09-26-2007 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Challah
Maybe this was in the article and I missed it, but is it appropriate to tell the truth without being prompted by another to do so? What I mean is, according to Mr Blanton, should you tell your wife she's fat, even if she doesn't ask? There are a few examples in the article where this is done, but where do you draw the line? Should you delve into lengthy rants about people you're speaking with? If I were absolutely honest and brought forward everything I think about people every time I speak with them, I wouldn't have time for anything else.

Yes, it seems appropriate for some types of social interactions and not for others. What is the function of being radically honest to a stranger, a "friend of a friend", or a casual acquaintance. Will my honesty help them? How are they to distinguish it from me just being an asshole? How does radical honesty help me in such contexts?

Plan9 09-26-2007 08:12 AM

I'd assume the sledgehammer-to-the-face conversation approach works well with perfect strangers.

Maybe not so much for people who provide you with a paycheck or sexual benefits.

Best friends? Might work for a while, but sometimes we want to be lied to for the comfort factor.

Ustwo 09-26-2007 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapiens
I can see the possible benefits to radical honesty among close friends, significant others, etc. However, I don't think that radical honesty works on a larger scale. Deception (or tact) is useful in a variety of social contexts.

It only doesn't work because we are conditioned for it not to work. When you expect pleasant lies you don't react well to the truth. We tip toe around problems, be it social, governmental, or otherwise. I agree that its useful to lie or not tell the whole truth, but only because we expect our egos to be so sheltered and take great offense when anyone dares say something negative. I think a lot more good could come out of people saying what they are really thinking or feeling. Do I think this will ever happen? No, of course not, but personally I would rather have an honest assessment, even if I don't agree with it, then someone blowing sunshine up my ass.

Plan9 09-26-2007 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo
...sunshine up my ass.

Not sunshine, but bullshit.

And perhaps bullshit is the necessary lubricant in our pussy-feelings-Dr.-Phil society.

Bullshit makes money. And we all know that money replaced god a long time ago.

...

I could almost go out on a branch and say that said bullshit aura prevents fat / ugly / awkward people from committing suicide... but I'll just drop that.

...

Darwinian Diatribe: The Guide to Smashing the Candy Coating of Feelings in Others

sapiens 09-26-2007 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo
It only doesn't work because we are conditioned for it not to work. When you expect pleasant lies you don't react well to the truth. We tip toe around problems, be it social, governmental, or otherwise. I agree that its useful to lie or not tell the whole truth, but only because we expect our egos to be so sheltered and take great offense when anyone dares say something negative. I think a lot more good could come out of people saying what they are really thinking or feeling. Do I think this will ever happen? No, of course not, but personally I would rather have an honest assessment, even if I don't agree with it, then someone blowing sunshine up my ass.


1. I don't want sunshine blown up my ass, but I also couldn't care less what the guy changing the oil in my car thinks of my appearance. I don't respect his opinion of my appearance and it isn't relevant to the social interaction. His honest assessment of the state of the oil in my car is relevant. I appreciate honest assessments from individuals, but only those domains that are relevant to the social interaction.

2. I don't think that we are conditioned to be deceptive. I also don't think that deception arises out of a desire to shelter our egos (as though all people want to be deceived). I do think that people are often unable to distinguish between honesty and deception.

guthmund 09-26-2007 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia
How about being radically honest and admit that there's nothing to gain but smug self-gratification in calling someone fat or any other rude comment that only serves to make you feel better than someone else.

Quoted, yet again, for truth.

There are certainly situations and relationships where you should be comfortable with being radically honest, but I can't imagine those situations include me opening my coffee order with a "dear god, aren't you a fat one" directed at the overweight barrista behind the counter or relationships...like say...with my boss, where "radical honesty" would probably be met with "radical reconsideration of my job status."

I was brought up to believe that social politeness and such were the grease that kept the gears of society churning away. To be socially superficial is an idea I'm perfectly happy with as it saves me a phenomenal amount of "work" without making me out to be a complete and total asshole.

Orange 09-26-2007 09:13 AM

If ya don't like being called fat, lose some weight. I'm tired of being nice to society. Yeah sure I'll keep saying you are just big boned while you suffer from heart disease.

Jinn 09-26-2007 09:51 AM

The problem with radical honesty is that it doesn't do shit for the person.

You're ugly.
You're fat.
You're XY.

What's it do for them? Nothing, except feel worse about something they probably feel bad about already.

"Brutal honesty" should only happen when you're offering constructive criticism - where you're actually giving them a suggestion on how to CHANGE said offensive condition. Otherwise, you're just being a smug asshole calling people names.

analog 09-26-2007 10:24 AM

I like that a lot of people are boiling down this whole idea into calling people fat, when the guy's intention is constructive and his whole mission is creating communication.

Nowhere in the article, or in the posts that support it, has anyone said they simply want to tell people they're fat.

A lot of you are trying to condense this whole idea down into a sound bite, "you're fat", which does not at all represent what the guy in the article was preaching. The whole point of Blanton's idea is that constant, unrestrained honesty opens communication.

No one in support of "brutal honesty" has said they just blurt out whatever random thing enters their mind, simply for the sake of saying it. I think some of you are getting carried away with your torch-and-pitch-fork-mob anger.

There's a big difference between...

"you're dressed like an idiot"
vs.
"The way you've dressed yourself is ludicrous and I'm embarrassed to be here with you."

The first is what many of you seem to be stuck on as an idea- the second is what this thread is actually discussing. The second opens communication. You're expressing your discomfort and its source, in order to be open and to share, rather than bottle up, that which bothers you.

And then there's everyone's favorite:

"You're fat"
vs.
"I resent how fat you are, because it makes me uncomfortable."

Again, many of you are boiling down statement 2, which is the whole idea of the "brutal honesty", into statement 1, which IS just being an asshole when out of context. The only time it would be IN context is if someone says, "am I fat?" and you simply answer yes, "you're fat"- and then that's not being an asshole, or unleashing your opinion on another just feel better about yourself, they asked and you responded honestly and without deception.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360