Not exactly, although this would rank pretty highly in terms of "major inconveniences" (included with having them sit behind me at the movies). No, my vision of hell is exactly what's happening to them right now - outraged Yankees lining up to tell them how wrong they're living.

Yeah, but how much of that is due to the intervention of modern medicine? They did say she had to have two C-sections, and she also had two sets of twins. If it weren't for modern medicine, 1) that woman would be dead by now, and 2) half of her children would have died before the age of 12.

I think this is where the liberals are losing the "war"...the bible-thumpers are out-procreating the liberals 19 to 2 or less...

And that would be applicable if Mom was out working the fields or helping run livestock instead of squeezing out another kid. And even then, I'm all for kids helping out around the home....helping, not shouldering the majority of the burden....helping.

That's my problem....I'm an outraged Yankee...nevermind the fact that I've lived a couple of hundred miles from these folks the vast majority of my life. And gods forbid one should express an opinion on a discussion board. Geez a lou, what were we thinking?

Of course, I pass judgment on these people, we all do to some extent. Aren't we supposed to? Does it not "take a village" anymore?

Those outraged Yankees and outraged Southerners, mind you, see fit to intervene when kids are beat up, mistreated and are generally neglected by those that are supposed to take care of them. Why is okay for Jim Bob and Michelle to keep their kids cloistered in a 7,000 sq ft prison in the middle of bumfuck Arkansas and when their not instructing them, working them--in little uniforms of floor length dresses and polo shirts no less--to maintain their chosen lifestyle? Should we just shuffle this off under the "it's just their way" label and keep our opinions to ourselves?

Well, evolution is all about the # of reproducing offspring, not about how they came into being... so if the couple is "fit" enough (including having access to money/resources) to draw upon modern medicine, then that only proves how biologically successful they are. And yes, even if they don't believe in evolution, they are certainly successful in the transmission of their "spiritual" DNA, if you will... imagine how many children each of those 17 will have, and so on and so on... it's an evangelical's dream.

If you're talking about their village, then yes - it still does take a village. But I hadn't noticed that their village was upset. If you're talking about someone else's village hammering their beliefs and mores from somewhere across the map, then it makes me think more of cultural chauvinism and arrogance.

Why is that okay? Because the Declaration of Independence says its okay (unalienable rights; life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; all the rest of that malarkey), and I'll defer to that anytime.

Sorry I was editing my post upstairs and didn't see this one.

Having a discussion and voicing opinion on those in the village is no more elitist or arrogant than lumping all those that decry the Duggars lifestyle as "outraged Yankees," in my opinion.

The Declaration of Independence...? Really? That would be a great argument if the federal government were actually doing something to prevent Jim Bob and Michelle from creating any more khaki clad clones, but this is just a message board voicing opinion...and then, subsequently, getting roasted for voicing that opinon.

In the general sense, I generally live and let live as long as those involved know what they're getting into. The problem with the Duggars is that these kids don't know any different. They are effectively sequestered from the outside world and, consequently, have no point of reference to make any sort of decision.

If I were interested in quoting a legal document I'd have pulled something from the Constitution. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is not law but is an ideal and it happens to be my ideal.

Anyone who can't fathom someone having 17 kids probably shouldn't have them for themselves, and that's as far as I see someone else's jurisdiction extending. But I'm not reading a lot of people saying "I'd never do that." I'm reading "THEY shouldn't do that."

Some of the responses on this thread irk me to no end.

Here you have some people criticizing another family on how their choose to raise their children, yet said people will bitch and moan when someone-- Usually of a religious faith-- Tries to cut in and criticize them for the way they raise their children. My grandfather has sixteen (I think it's sixteen) children, of which my dad is the oldest. They turned out all right :) Anyway, from what I've seen, all the children are well cared for (Which is more to say than for a lot of other families in the world) and loved and the family seems to be in pretty good financial shape. You don't have to agree with how many children they have-- Hell, even I don't agree with how many children they have-- But to instantly criticize and go on about what they shouldn't be allowed to do would make you no better than those 'religious nuts' you seem to dislike.

/end rant here

On a more serious note, though, I wonder how her vagina hasn't exploded already...

I have no strong emotions on this issue actually (unusual for me I know) but I saw this picture the other day and it sure seems to fit

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ppo/vagina.jpg

I'm curious to know where the 17th child is? Because the article clearly states that they are pictured with 16 of their children, yet they have 17 in total. Did one rebel and leave the family or something?

The newborn is on the mother's lap, and the other 16 are gathered around their parents. So they're all accounted for and together. The only discrepancy is when the article lists the children's names, they list only 16 when there should be 17 names.

That fits perhaps better than you know... that IS the Duggar family in that picture. :)

She's preggie again

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080509/ap_on_re_us/18_kids

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - It's a happy Mother's Day for an Arkansas woman — she's pregnant with her 18th child. Michelle Duggar, 41, is due on New Year's Day, and the latest addition will join seven sisters and 10 brothers. There are two sets of twins.

"We've had three in January, three in December. Those two months are a busy time for us," she said, laughing.

The Duggars' oldest child, Josh, is 20, and the youngest, Jennifer, is nine months old.

The fast-growing family lives in Tontitown in northwest Arkansas in a 7,000-square-foot home. All the children — whose names start with the letter J — are home-schooled.

Duggar has been been pregnant for more than 11 years of her life, and the family is in the process of filming another series for Discovery Health.

The new show looks at life inside the Duggar home, where chores — or "jurisdictions" — are assigned to each child. One episode of the new show involves a "jurisdiction swap," where the boys do chores traditionally assigned to the girls, and vice versa, Duggar said.

"The girls swapped jurisdictions, changing tires, working in the garages, mowing the grass," she said. "The boys got to cook supper from start to finish, clean the bathrooms," among other chores.

Duggar said she's six weeks along and the pregnancy is going well. She and her husband, Jim Bob Duggar, said they'll keep having children as long as God wills it.

"The success in a family is first off, a love for God, and secondly, treating each other like you want to be treated," Jim Bob Duggar said. "Our goal is for each one of our children to be best friends, and everybody working together to serve each other makes that happen."

The other Duggar children, in between Joshua and Jennifer, are Jana, 18; John-David, 18; Jill, 16; Jessa, 15; Jinger, 14; Joseph, 13; Josiah, 11; Joy-Anna, 10; Jeremiah, 9; Jedidiah, 9; Jason, 7; James, 6; Justin, 5; Jackson, 3; and Johannah, 2.

They'd better be rich, have excellent jobs, top-knotch health insurance, and lots of patience.

Dang. I can't even imagine affording all of those mouths to feed. Must be cheap to live in Arkansas.

Am I the only one thinking that Jim Bob must really like screwing caverns? She probably doesn't even have to wake up at this point.....
The doctor doesn't need a stethoscope or doppler to hear the baby's heartbeat, he just puts his ear to her knee and wait for the echo.....

RFLOL! My friend just said she could use a Harley as a vibrator. :lol:

I watched their tv show where they were building a new house/compound. They got a lot of things donated and the house ain't shabby. They remind me of those polygamous families recently in the news-the females look alike and are throwbacks to the 1950's as are the males. Chores are gender-related. Momma needs to stop spitting out kids and get a make-over and cease brainwashing those kids about gender roles. She has them then everyone else gets more responsibilities-that's how it seemed on that show. She did little more than direct them all and home school.

Oh well, it's her body. I feel kinda bad for the kids, being raised ignorant of the world. And there are better places to donate washers, dryers, stoves and a piano, among other things that were handed to them.

They should donate the husband a visectamy (sp?).

I say damn good job to Jim Bob for hitting that at least 14 times.

This family is on TV all the time on TLC or some shit, they have their own show about their life, or at least some sort of mini series/special about how "amazing" their family is

It's really fucking annoying because the entire family is one gigantic douchebag because they are so obsessed with their religion

The older kid has some sort of Oedipus complex - he basically jizzed all over his mom when he was going to college, it was just cringeworthy to watch

They have "family meetings" to talk about Jesus and all sorts of weird shit, it really creeped me out - if you think the website is bad, you should see them on TV

Both my wife and I have enjoyed watching the shows featuring them on TLC/Discovery health for the past few years - the ones starting back when they had the really small house. They are an excellent example of raising children in a fiscally responsible manner (says the poster with waaay too much debt, not nearly enough income, and far less kids)
Being able to offer all of your children their own acre out of your 20 acre plot is an acomplishment in itself.

Yikes. I have a co-worker who has 9 kids...half-freaking-way! Yeesh...

They started building the house on their own, but they couldn't afford to finish it. So TLC paid to finish the house, as well as for a month long vacation. And, yes the kids swung a hammer for 10 minutes for the camera, but how much productive work do you think they actually did in dress slacks and floor length skirts?

JimBob has also had his house declared a "church" so he has tax exempt status, which means he doesn't pay property tax on their 20 acre compound, as well as not paying sales tax for anything purchased for the "church"/house/family. I sure consider that "government assistance" since they are getting a free ride on thousands and thousands of dollars in taxes that every other "regular" family has to pay.

Wow, if there was ever something that should be illegal, there ya go.

My main problem with them is how they espouse the "quiverful" philosophy, but have talked about actively trying to get pregnant, which isn't part of the quiverful teachings. She weans her children early to formula to get her fertility back and they actively track her cycles to conceive again as quickly as possible. She is, quite literally, a baby factory.

I also strongly disagree with some of their parenting philosophies, such as corporal punishment beginning at 6 months with "blanket training" infants. I won't even get into the gender roles and how their girls are prepared for little more than to marry and have kids.

As it was stated, by many more eloquent than I (before this was dredged from the archives), it is their privilege to have as many children as they like and to raise them as they see fit. This is not the way I would personally choose to live my life, but I will not object to anyone else doing so.

It is far too easy to judge others, lazy in fact.

yawn

for all those that think its such a bad thing to have so many kids.. i personally dont think so.

my mother was one of 13..yes 13.

my grandmother was married at a young age in lebanon. she popped put 13 kids, with no multiple births. thats not the amazing part. the amazing thing was that all kids were healthy..all turned out perfectly one normal people with decent jobs and families. all immigrated to australia, and assimilated just fine into the australian backdrop.. so big families dont need to be rubbished just because they are big....the best thing is..none share the same initials.

what i do have a problem with though is the religious brainwashing.
.

dlish-
Thanks for sharing such a great account. 13 kids is a LOT! And to think they all were healthy and happy. Pretty awesome.

thanks GG! its great to have 76 first cousins! although many of them share the same name (first name and surname!)

13 is a lot by todays standards, but apparently it wasnt back then in Lebanon. families of 6-10 kids were the norm in those days. i guess the word 'norm' is the key word though. times change and so do norms, and i guess norms in this day and age dont think much of large families.

large families are equated with a lot of negativity. ie: welfare, poor socio-economic status, lack of education, religious fundamentalism and poor social standing.

i can see where the ideas of some of the posters come from, i just wanted to give my experience in being associated with a large family.

dlish, 13 kids weren't many in most countries two generations ago. I know a LOT of people my parents age who were one of 8-15, and many more my grandparents age that were one of even more. Today, however, there are a lot of socio-economic reasons NOT to have so many kids. Some are micro, such as affording one kid or three, let alone a dozen or more. Some are macro, such as thinking about pollution and food supplies as well as population control and overcrowding. Personally, I only wanted two kids, one to replace me and one to replace my wife. Since I had a child with another woman 13 years ago, it looks like I'll end up with 3. I'm not a fan of that idea, but we're hoping for a daughter (which I don't have) so maybe it'll be okay. I think having more than 3 kids is socially irresponsible. I think having 18, in modern days, is utterly reprehensible.

As for large families, I don't know that I agree with you. Here in the States, at least in Michigan, most people think "large family" and equate it to a large non-primary family. Many cousins, aunts/uncles, et cetera. I don't personally know many people my age who have more than 1 or 2 siblings. but many of them have many cousins and are close to them. In that light, most people seem to think highly of large families. My wife and I want a large family. We'd LIKE a lot of kids. But we both don't think it's actually such a good idea. So, we'll hope for many grandchildren (2-3 per child of ours works great). Maybe if we live long enough to see our great grandchildren, there'll be a lot more of them :p

Five bucks says they do it simply for government money.