Virginia Tech Tragedy (this thread is NOT for the debate of "gun control")

[dksuddeth]

My God!!! 32 people dead.

At least 32 dead in Virginia shooting rampage

I'm in total shock

[Cynthetiq]

At least 32 dead in Virginia shooting rampage
Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:38 PM ET

By Brendan Bush

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (Reuters) - At least 32 people were killed and more than two dozen wounded at Virginia Tech university on Monday in the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history, media said.

Fox News, CNN and the student-run university newspaper gave the death toll as 32. Officials earlier said at least 22 people were killed.

The rampage by what police believed was a lone gunman took place in two separate areas, first at a dormitory as students had begun criss-crossing the sprawling campus for morning classes, and then about two hours later at an engineering and science hall a half-mile away.

The attacks sparked panic and chaos.

Witnesses told CNN that some students were hurt jumping out the windows of the classroom building to escape the gunfire.

"This is a tragedy of monumental proportions," Virginia Tech president Charles Steger told reporters.

Virginia Tech campus police chief Wendell Finchum said the suspected gunman was dead and that police were trying to determine whether he killed himself or was shot by officers.

"At this time we believe it's only one gunman," said Finchum. Officials did not have a motive for the attack and did not immediately know if the gunman was a student.

Students told CNN there were multiple bomb threats to the campus in the last few weeks. Two of the threats were aimed at the university's science and engineering school.

A U.S. Department of Homeland Security spokesman said there was no indication of terrorism but that it would be part of the investigation.

President George W. Bush was "horrified" by the shooting, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

"He was horrified and his immediate reaction was one of deep concern for the families of the victims, the victims themselves, the students, the professors and all of the people of Virginia who have dealt with this shocking incident," she said.

A student journalist's video of the chaos was replayed repeatedly on U.S. television networks, showing people scurrying around the campus and volleys of shots ringing out.

The death toll was worse than a massacre at the University of Texas in Austin on August 1, 1966, when Charles Whitman, a 25-year-old student, killed 13 people and wounded 31 in a 90-minute spree. Whitman had killed his mother and wife the night before.

TWO HOURS BETWEEN ATTACKS

The first shooting at Virginia Tech, a state university, was reported to campus police at about 7:15 a.m. (1115 GMT) in West Ambler Johnston Hall, a dormitory housing some 900 students.

It was followed by more shooting at Norris Hall, site of the science and engineering school that has given the university much of its fame as a leading technical institute in the United States.

During the two hours after the first shooting some students had ventured out again. University police were investigating the first shooting at the dormitory when they got word of gunfire at the classroom building.

Student Justin Merrifield told Reuters he was outside West Ambler dormitory at 9 a.m. when he saw police and a crying student but did not realize the magnitude of the crisis until he arrived at his 10 a.m. class.

Merrifield said students were alerted by campus loudspeakers.

"There was a voice that just kept repeating, 'Gunman on campus, stay indoors, get away from windows,' over and over, basically," said Merrifield.

One student criticized how university officials reacted after the first shooting.

"I'm pretty outraged that someone died in a shooting in a dorm at 7 O'clock in the morning and the first e-mail about it had no mention of locking down the campus, no mention of canceling classes," Jason Piatt told CNN.

"They just mentioned that they were investigating a shooting," he said.

"That's pretty ridiculous. Meanwhile, while they sent out that e-mail, 21 people got killed."

The shooting was bound to revive debate in the United States about gun violence.

"We live in a society where guns are pretty well accepted," said Jim Sollo, of Virginians Against Handgun Violence. "There are 200 million guns in this society and obviously some in the wrong hands."

Virginia Tech, with 26,000 students, is located in the town of Blacksburg and set in lush rolling hills in the southwest corner of the state, about 240 miles from Washington.

Classes were canceled for Monday and Tuesday and counselors were being brought in to talk to the students.

U.S. News & World Report, which produces well-regarded annual ratings of U.S. universities, ranked Virginia Tech's College of Engineering 17th for an engineering school in the United States.

a shame...

I can only say that I heard about this as I trawled news sites, but I had no way of picking up any broadcasts in my office at the moment. A shame because I had gotten so used to just turning the TV on during the day. I actually found the local 1010wins news station and streamed it.

[World's King]

Oh Jesus...



I have a whole slew of comments that could be deemed as insensitive so I'm gonna keep my fuckin' mouth shut. For now.

[Ballzor]

I know a lot of people that go to VT. here's what I've heard from them.

All are ok
1 of my friends knows 1 guy shot 3 times in the arms and legs.
another friend knows 4 people shot, 1 girl in the stomach, another twice in the arm after he tried to keep the gunman out of the classroom. one of them, an RA, died.

one of my friends lived in the dorm where the first shooting happened, and another of my friends was outside of the building when it happened, said people just came running out with gunshot wounds.

good friend of mine was supposed to be in the engineering building at 9:00 but they stopped the buses and he couldn't get there.

the cousin of my friends ex-girlfriend was killed.

what a fucking tragedy
(n i only share that information because its so insane to me that this could have easily been my friends killed.)

[alkaloid]

This is truly tragic. I can't help but think how we might have prevented or even just mitigated such disaster from happening. My condolences to the victims.

[flstf]

I'm still waiting for the details but my initial thought was how could someone shoot over 60 people in close quarters without someone shooting him back.

[LoganSnake]

Only hours after the incident, Jack Thompson, one of the presiding douches of the United States is on Fox News talking about how video games trained the killer. Not even a tragedy like this will stop him from focusing on his own agenda.

This is just sad.

RIP.

[The_Jazz]

Originally Posted by flstf

I'm still waiting for the details but my initial thought was how could someone shoot over 60 people in close quarters without someone shooting him back.

There's another compliment thread here in General Discussion specifically for "gun control" talk on this subject, I'd invite you all to join that conversation as we keep the two debates separated. - analog.

To directly answer the question, I was always more concerned with how hung over or sore from a workout I was going to be in class than going there armed. I can't imagine that there are really any college students that carry on campus, when it is legal, especially a campus in a small town like VT.

[oFia]

It's at 33 now according to CNN. And now the 2 separate shootings may or may not be connected. The 33 includes the or a shooter.

(2 in a dorm, 31 shot at an academic building)

I have to agree there's all kinds of horrible comments that can made. Mostly I'd like to make horrible comments about the media.

edit: And now I'm listening to an anchor person on cnn basically slam the officers involved in this investigation.

double edit:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

There's another compliment thread here in General Discussion specifically for "gun control" talk on this subject, I'd invite you all to join that conversation as we keep the two debates separated. - analog.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...05#post2230105

[Borgs]

My sister was in the building next door. I woke up with a text from her saying, "Me and my friends are safe, I love you all." This was before I read the news. Thank god, because I would have been in panic mode if I hadn't received it. I called her and she's shook up. Tears all around about what could have happened. My cousin also goes to school there but he's o.k. too, thank god.

I was just listening to NPR and a student was talking about being in the building with the shooter. Apparently he was laughing after every shot. Let's hope there is a special place in hell for this sicko.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims.

[Infinite_Loser]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see why is this front page news. Most people are just trying to further their own agenda, anyway...

[Borgs]

You fail to see how the deadliest campus shooting in American history is front page news? How is putting this on the front page furthering anyones agenda? Perhaps the funeral homes in the region have a hidden agenda. It's just a shame that this took the place of more news on Anna Nicole Smith.

Sorry for the heated tone, but my sister was very close to death. This is one story that hits close to home for me.

[hunnychile]

Sorry, but how does this differ from a bad day in Iraq????

[Borgs]

Most notably because the campus of Virginia Tech isn't a war zone, although this doesn't make the deaths any more or less tragic.

[Elphaba]

It is human nature to seek out blame when something this horrific occurs. I've been listening to a radio program that has set that aside in favor of discussing means of prevention. Gun policy was, of course, a part of the discussion, as were increased security measures to prevent an individual of this kind of getting on campus. I could go into detail about the suggestions considered, but the bottom line was that there are no practical solutions.

In truth, the last college campus incident of this kind was in 1966. This would suggest that our colleges are remarkable safe and I think it's important to keep this in mind when contemplating what happened today.

To be clear, I am not of the same opinion concerning our K-12 schools.

[analog]

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see why is this front page news. Most people are just trying to further their own agenda, anyway...

I think it is just you, and I'm thankful.

What agenda could you possibly be talking about? Is this normal drive-by-criticism gibberish or do you have something to say- some kind of point you were trying to make?

[World's King]

Originally Posted by hunnychile

Sorry, but how does this differ from a bad day in Iraq????

Exactly.


And the difference is... rich people died today. In Iraq, poor white people, minorities, and weird terrorists die. No one cares about them.

[ShaniFaye]

that is such a bullshit statement, what the heck makes you think nobody cares about the people in iraq huh? JUST because a person professes outrage and compassion for the victims DOES NOT MEAN WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE.

Pardon me for seeing the difference in people sitting unprotected in a classroom than people that volunteered to put their lives on the line by being in the military. Military people CHOOSE to join <insert branch here> knowing full well what they are getting themselves into. College students dont apply to college to be sitting fucking ducks.

Im sure any student with god knows how many years of student loan payments in their future will appreciate being called "rich"

[Infinite_Loser]

Originally Posted by analog

I think it is just you, and I'm thankful.

Oh well, then... People are shot and killed every day, yet most of those stories never see the light of day because they're not 'high profile'. Somehow, I fail to see how one shooting incident is somehow more 'tragic' than another.

What agenda could you possibly be talking about? Is this normal drive-by-criticism gibberish or do you have something to say- some kind of point you were trying to make?

Apparently you haven't been watching much TV today...

[Borgs]

edit: adding what i am responding to:

Originally Posted by World's King

Exactly.


And the difference is... rich people died today. In Iraq, poor white people, minorities, and weird terrorists die. No one cares about them.

I fail to see how this has anything to do with Iraq. Tying two events together because there is death involved in both makes no sense. How does this differ from Iraq? Well, there is a WAR going on in Iraq, for one. I could continue but do I have to? I hope that we can all differentiate Iraq and Virginia Tech.

As for the comment that no one cares about Iraqis, I assume that you are basing that on your own feelings on the issue? I grieve every time I read an article about a bombing in Iraq. It saddens me that they have become so commonplace that the media has stopped reporting them.

[analog]

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Oh well, then... People are shot and killed every day, yet most of those stories never see the light of day because they're not 'high profile'. Somehow, I fail to see how one shooting incident is somehow more 'tragic' than another.

Someone gets shot, a few people get shot- one thing.

A guy cornering 30+ people in a room and then picking them off in what's quite literally an execution-style homicide spree, is something else entirely.

[Brewmaniac]

WTF! It really sad when a thread about a tragedy get tromped on because we aren't minimizing it compared to a larger one or bringing up social economic issues! Death of young students is awful!

[pig]

yeah, this is like saying i can't be upset because my dog got run over because sheep get slaughtered every day in africa.

i think its horrible to hear that this happened, and i wish all involved peace and recovery where possible.

[Borgs]

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Oh well, then... People are shot and killed every day, yet most of those stories never see the light of day because they're not 'high profile'. Somehow, I fail to see how one shooting incident is somehow more 'tragic' than another.

I actually starting typing a reply but noticed how you put the word tragic in quotation marks. Are you that vain? Go speak with a family member of one of the victims and tell me that this wasn't tragic. Based on the logic if this post either we grieve for everyone at once or no one at all. Surely you can see the hypocrisy in such a statement.

[The_Jazz]

Hmmm, I think I see an interesting divide here between those who seem to feel that they're overexposed to "tragedy" by the media and those that aren't. Those of you that are don't see this as anything all that notable while those that aren't put it in the Pantheon of Horror.

No one's right; no one's wrong. Bad things happen all day every day. Some are more horrible than other and bear noting. The most horrific thing to happen to anyone I know barely made headlines outside of Chicago or Raleigh, NC.

Tragedy, I think, is measured by the proximety of the victim to the observer. If, God forbid, Ballzor (a TFP member who's a VTU student) had been one of the victims, I think this thread would have a very different feel.

[uncle phil]

does anyone know exactly what happened yet? or are we all speculating on what we've been fed by the talking heads?

[World's King]

Originally Posted by Borgs

I fail to see how this has anything to do with Iraq. Tying two events together because there is death involved in both makes no sense. How does this differ from Iraq? Well, there is a WAR going on in Iraq, for one. I could continue but do I have to? I hope that we can all differentiate Iraq and Virginia Tech.

As for the comment that no one cares about Iraqis, I assume that you are basing that on your own feelings on the issue? I grieve every time I read an article about a bombing in Iraq. It saddens me that they have become so commonplace that the media has stopped reporting them.

Death is common place. It happened way before you were born and it will continue to happen long after you die. Does that mean a single death is less sad? No. It just means it's something that the more you dwell on the harder it is to get past.


I was actually pointing out that people die in large groups around the world each day. And for the most part Americans only give a flying blue fuck it involves a fellow American. Selfish assholes.

[Elphaba]

Unc, what we don't know is quite a bit. The shooter didn't carry ID and didn't make any claim as to his purpose or reason. I wish the talking heads didn't feel so compelled to fill air time with suppositions.

[Borgs]

Edit: Added quote. I need to start quoting, I'm not used to these fast moving boards.

Originally Posted by World's King

Death is common place. It happened way before you were born and it will continue to happen long after you die. Does that mean a single death is less sad? No. It just means it's something that the more you dwell on the harder it is to get past.


I was actually pointing out that people die in large groups around the world each day. And for the most part Americans only give a flying blue fuck it involves a fellow American. Selfish assholes.

Again, I don't understand on what you are basing these generalizations of Americans. I care, does that mean that I'm not an American? Furthermore, how many Russians (random example) are grieving for the victims here? It's hard to "give a fuck" about something that is happening thousands of miles away. The_Jazz nailed it on the head in his post when speaking of proximity.

[Frosstbyte]

Originally Posted by hunnychile

Sorry, but how does this differ from a bad day in Iraq????

This was my response almost verbatim when Columbine happened. I was also in high school at the time and in Colorado. You may or may not remember that Columbine happened while we were bombing the ever-living-shit out of Kosovo. I don't think I'd say it today.

On the one hand, there is truth to it. Either we value human life, or we don't. And if we do, all human life should have the same value so it only goes to show our ethnocentrism, class consciousness and racism when we make a big deal out of something closer to home.

On the other hand, we live our lives based on our experiences and, lacking our own experience, vicariously through those with whom we can best share experiences. Most Americans, myself included, have a very hard time imagining what life in Iraq is like, and, fortunately, for good reason. Many Americans have a very easy time imagining what it is or was like to be a college student and, for that reason, they're upset and scared when 31 college students get mowed down by a crazy person.

For better or for worse, there is a war going on in Iraq and, last time I checked, much of this country was against it and wants it to stop. Short of full scale revolt against our government, we're doing what we can do to make that happen. People are upset with the fact that people are dying there, but it's been going on for four years and, for purposes of information filtering, we can't report on it like we can a shooting at a college. We EXPECT casualties in a war zone, even if we don't like them. We don't expect casualties when we send ourselves, our siblings, our children to college in suburban Virginia.

I don't see what good holding that empathy over people's heads does other than give you the opportunity to have a holier-than-thou moment.

[spectre]

I was wondering why there were so many campus security people all over today. There was a protest, but it was a small one to have an Asian Studies class added to the curriculum. I've never seen a protest here have a squad car right next to the quad. From what I read on one news site, they were having security everywhere at every campus across the country in case of a copy cat. It's pretty scary to think that this could happen on campus.

[mixedmedia]

Originally Posted by pigglet

i think its horrible to hear that this happened, and i wish all involved peace and recovery where possible.

my thoughts exactly...

Yes, deaths in Iraq are tragic and senseless. Just like these are.

[Glory's Sun]

Even though I know it will be seen as insensitive, I'm going to try and repeat some of what was in the shoutbox earlier. When I heard the news, my reaction was "big deal". Sure I know it's a terrible thing that happened but it doesn't really affect me.

Then, we get into how it's unreasonable to think that someone could do this to students, but it's reasonable to go in and kill people of a foreign country. Before you start back on the proximity argument and the two different instances argument, it all boils down to the same thing. It's death. Ask the troops over there what they think about it.. they'd probably consider it to be one and the same thing.

Who knows how many people die everyday in the ghettos across America. Does it make the paper? No we'd rather wonder who fathered a baby of a pill-popping money hungry slut. Then oh no! We have students that died because some fuck decided he should kill people because his girlfriend didn't give him a blowjob this morning. I find it horribly insensitive to the rest of the people who die without so much of a decent funeral much less a front story of the paper.

If you're on the sympathetic bandwagon, then perhaps more should be mentioned about the people who die every fucking day instead of just the ones that die at some school.

[ShaniFaye]

Actually I have talked to some soldiers today, several I know came home right before easter...Marines...their words? "I expect that over there, I dont expect that in the country I serve and our hearts should go out to their families"

Also there have been people that attend VT that had friends that are still IN Iraq call them to pass on their prayers and see how they were.

[pig]

gucci, king, etc.

if you're just bitching about the media coverage, then i can understand that a bit. they broke in on jeopardy to do a press conference, and then said some jazz about "we'll be back live tomorrow morning live from the vt campus" and i think there a special night line for it, and all i thought was 'fucking great. i'm sure that's exactly what these people need right now. more fucking cameras.' but that's the way the media works. this has massive concentration of simultaneous death in an american city involving college students. i wouldn't seek learning about this incident, particularly, but if i hear about i'm going to say 'damn, that sucks. i feel awful for them' and if i hear about a bombing in iraq, i think the same thing. i just don't understand the theory of tragedy dillution due to overexposure being a useful reason to negate someone else's response to it.

[Infinite_Loser]

Originally Posted by Borgs

I actually starting typing a reply but noticed how you put the word tragic in quotation marks. Are you that vain? Go speak with a family member of one of the victims and tell me that this wasn't tragic. Based on the logic if this post either we grieve for everyone at once or no one at all. Surely you can see the hypocrisy in such a statement.

I didn't put the word tragic in quotation marks to be vain, but rather to show that the VT shooting was no more 'tragic' than any other shooting which occurs nearly every day.

I HATE the fact that people act as if this is some sort of big deal which almost NEVER happens.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by spectre

It's pretty scary to think that this could happen on campus.

We think of schools as safety zones, as sanctuaries, yet things like this happen, and there is no denying the horror of it. There is no denying the horror of death, regardless of where it happens or to who, and so there is no point in pointing fingers, because as long as there is still horror in people taking human lives, it is all the same--but that it would happen in a place that we would feel safe--that is what bothers us most of all, I think. I also think we are bothered by the fact that a lot of us either went to college or are college students--and the thought that this could happen to us, at our school--my school is a LOT like VT--that worries me. That worries me a lot. If it can happen at VT...it can happen anywhere. Of course, I thought that after the Kip Kinkel shooting...if it can happen in Springfield, Oregon, it can happen anywhere--and no school is safe anymore.

[ShaniFaye]

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

I didn't put the word tragic in quotation marks to be vain, but rather to show that the VT shooting was no more 'tragic' than any other shooting which occurs nearly every day.

I HATE the fact that people act as if this is some sort of big deal which almost NEVER happens.

so....would it be more tragic to you if it happened...say at a Monastery or a Nunnery? or would still be an "oh well some one else died" just because they were shot?

[point]

I learned about this when my professor talked about it in class earlier. He had heard that the first shooting (a guy and a girl at around 7am) at the VT dorms was due to a break up.

Whatever caused him to do it, it's sad that he couldn't talk to anyone.

[shakran]

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Oh well, then... People are shot and killed every day, yet most of those stories never see the light of day because they're not 'high profile'. Somehow, I fail to see how one shooting incident is somehow more 'tragic' than another.

OK, I see your point. I don't think anyone's saying one death is less tragic than another, however. But the sad reality is that so many people are killed every day that if we the media reported on EVERY death, that's all we'd ever talk about, and then you'd complain about that.

No matter what the medium, there is only so much space or time to fit all the day's news in. Even the newspaper can't just go off and print up a 300 page edition on a whim. That means there must be a filtration process. Part of that filtration process is looking for either something out of the ordinary (a common mantra is "dog bits man, no story, man bites dog, there's a story.") or something which effects a large portion of your viewers/readers. One guy getting killed in Philly will be reported on its local news, but it's not going to effect someone in LA, so it probably won't make it out there unless there's an unusual element to it - - and sadly there's nothing unusual anymore about one person getting murdered.

Clearly what happened today is tragic - no more or less tragic on a family-by-family basis than any other murder, although I would argue it is far more tragic to the VT community as a whole than a single murder would have been. Clearly as well what happened today is highly unusual - - in fact, a shooting on this scale has never before happened in this country, and that alone makes it news.

I mean no offense, but I reject your premise - - -it's very unusual for a murder to not get a mention in the media local to the area the murder happened in.