Moon for sale. Huh? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KellyC · 04-10-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

From his office in Nevada, entrepreneur Dennis Hope has spawned a multi-million-dollar property business selling plots of lunar real estate at $20 (£10) an acre.

Mr Hope exploited a loophole in the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and he has been claiming ownership of the Earth's Moon - and seven planets and their moons - for more than 20 years.

These are "truly unowned lands", he says. "We're doing exactly what our forefathers did when they came to the New World from the European continent."

Hope says he has so far sold more than 400 million acres (1.6m sq km), leaving a further eight billion acres still up for grabs.

Buyers include Hollywood stars, large corporations - including the Hilton and Marriot hotel chains - and even former US presidents Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter. George W Bush is also said to be a stake holder.

Mr Hope claims to be selling 1,500 lunar properties a day. He allocates land by simply closing his eyes and pointing to a map of the Moon.

Dennis Hope
No government has yet recognised the lunar sales as legally binding

"It's not very scientific but it's kinda fun," he says. It is fun that has already made him $9 million (£4.5 million).

The next race to exploit the Moon was started by President George Bush in January 2004, when he committed the US to returning to the Moon by as early as 2017.

He said the US aimed to establish a long term lunar base by around 2020.

"We're talking about not just going there to stay three days," says Nasa rocket engineer Dr John Connolly. This time, he says, "we're talking about the idea of learning to live there."

Commercial frontier

Other countries are also making plans.

China - which has already successfully launched two manned space missions - has announced a similar timetable.

Russia, for nearly 50 years one of the world's leading space powers, may not be far behind. Europe, Japan and India have also expressed an interest.

A metric ton of helium 3 would supply about one-sixth of the energy needs today of the British Isles
Harrison Schmitt

Behind all this lies a growing belief that, within a matter of decades, the Moon will be much more than a scientific outpost; it could become a vital commercial frontier.

Large private companies and rich entrepreneurs have also seen a new business opportunity.

One of the biggest is US space contractor Lockheed Martin, which is currently developing technologies that will enable future lunar residents to exploit the lunar surface.

In particular it is working on a process which will convert moon dust into oxygen and water. It may even be able to turn it into rocket fuel.

"Just like we use resources here on Earth in order to live off the land - you can do the same thing on the Moon," says Lockheed Martin's Dr Larry Clark.

But this is peanuts compared to what scientists believe is the real prize lying in the moon rocks.

Mining the Moon

Data collected from the Apollo Moon landings have indicated that large deposits of an extremely rare gas called helium 3 are trapped in the lunar soil.

Scientists believe that this helium 3 could be used to create a new source of almost inexhaustible, clean, pollution-free energy on Earth.

Harrison Schmitt
Mr Schmitt was in a "geologist's paradise" walking on the Moon

One of them is Dr Harrison Schmitt, a member of the 1972 Apollo 17 mission and the only trained geologist ever to walk on the Moon.

"A metric ton of helium 3 would supply about one-sixth of the energy needs today of the British Isles," he claims.

Plans are already afoot in the US and Russia to strip-mine lunar helium 3 and transport it the 240,000 miles (385,000km) back to Earth.

The Moon, claims Prof Jerry Kulcinski of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, could become the Persian Gulf of the 21st Century.

"If we had gold bricks stacked up on the surface of the Moon, we couldn't afford to bring them back. This material - at several billion dollars a ton - is what makes it all worthwhile."

Lone voice

Not everybody is happy with the idea of exploiting the Moon.

Edgar Mitchell was a member of the 1971 Apollo 14 lunar mission. He is worried that, in our rush to exploit it, we could also destroy valuable scientific information.

"As far as how the universe works, we're just barely out of the trees. Until we know what the Moon is really all about, the idea of trying to commercialise it is, in my opinion, a misplaced idea," he argues.

Yet he is almost a lone voice.

"The Moon is such a rich scientific destination, I think we need to look at it just the way we do the South Pole," explains Dr Connolly.

"We should go there, find everything there is to find out scientifically. There are a number of resources that we know can be of great benefit."

Horizon: Moon for Sale will be broadcast on BBC Two on Tuesday 10 April at 2100 BST.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6533169.stm

While the notion of colonizing the moon sounds cool, I can't help but be pissed at this whole thing. The idea just screams "rape of the moon" to me. I liken it to land developers destroying a beautiful peace of natural land like a patch of forest, marshland and the likes to build a god damn shopping mall, casino, hotel, business plaza, golf resort, etc. As if the damage is not bad enough on earth, now they're thinking about doing it to the moon too?

The bolded sentence really gets me foaming in the mouth. First, he implies that it's acceptable for Europeans to come to the New World and claim the lands that the Indians already inhabit. And second, just because outer space is unclaimed, that means it's automatically up for grabs?? That's a bit arrogant don't you think? I really don't think he has any right to claim the moon, and those other planets just because he found a loophole in a treaty. It's mind boggling that people actually pay him for supposed land, too.

/end rant

analog · 04-10-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyC

First, he implies that it's acceptable for Europeans to come to the New World and claim the lands that the Indians already inhabit.

Practically every land that's ever been inhabited by any human, anywhere, has been taken by someone else, and pretty much exclusively by force. All animals do the same. Native American Indians also took, by force, each other's lands and resources. No one is any different than anyone else. So blame the europeans all you like, but no culture is innocent of acquiring lands through force, most especially the further back in history you go.

Or if you're going to nitpick, don't forget Hitler, Napolean, every leader/military commander of the Roman Empire (Hannibal, etc), the Roman Catholic Church, probably every Pharaoh of Egypt, Ghengis Khan, Attila the Hun... ... ... ...

Astrocloud · 04-10-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

more than 400 million acres

at $20 an acre -this project is very lucrative.

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-10-2007, 09:08 PM

You have to "own" something before you can "sell' it.

His customers are idiots, and he's not far behind, no matter how much he's making.

Laugh-O-Matic · 04-10-2007, 09:11 PM

I hope we won't be seeing this enterprising Maverick in the Court in a few years from now for conning people into buying something (like ourcrazymodern? said) he doesn't even own.

Astrocloud · 04-10-2007, 09:13 PM

He doesn't own it because I own it. (And I'm charging less)

Willravel · 04-10-2007, 09:17 PM

Only an idiot would buy land on the moon. Mars, on the other hand....

Laugh-O-Matic · 04-10-2007, 09:31 PM

I'm surprised no one's cracked a Uranus joke yet.

KellyC · 04-10-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Practically every land that's ever been inhabited by any human, anywhere, has been taken by someone else, and pretty much exclusively by force. All animals do the same. Native American Indians also took, by force, each other's lands and resources. No one is any different than anyone else. So blame the europeans all you like, but no culture is innocent of acquiring lands through force, most especially the further back in history you go.

Or if you're going to nitpick, don't forget Hitler, Napolean, every leader/military commander of the Roman Empire (Hannibal, etc), the Roman Catholic Church, probably every Pharaoh of Egypt, Ghengis Khan, Attila the Hun... ... ... ...

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not playing the blame game. Maybe it's poor word choice on my part so I'll say it again: the idea of claiming what isn't yours is wrong. He was talking about the Europeans so I was focusing on just that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Only an idiot would buy land on the moon. Mars, on the other hand....

He's got 2 and 1 dead President of the US buying from him....

flat5 · 04-11-2007, 01:58 AM

BadNick · 04-11-2007, 05:16 AM

I don't see anything I should get worried about except perhaps that there are still people dumb enough to even think of this kind of scheme and the even dumber ones who go along with it. To me it's just another version of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale rather than rape of the Moon. About selling stuff you don't own, have you checked out ebay lately?

The_Jazz · 04-11-2007, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern?

His customers are idiots, and he's not far behind, no matter how much he's making.

There's a fine line between clever and stupid.

warrrreagl · 04-11-2007, 05:49 AM

Then call us stupid, because Grancey bought part of a crater that happens to share the same last name as mine and gave it to me for a birthday awhile back.

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-11-2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

There's a fine line between clever and stupid.

A greed. Paper money.

ubertuber · 04-11-2007, 06:09 AM

If he sold 400 million acres for $20/acre and only made $9 million he sucks more at math than I do.

04-10-2007, 09:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	You have to "own" something before you can "sell' it. His customers are idiots, and he's not far behind, no matter how much he's making. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

04-10-2007, 09:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
Laugh-O-Matic Crazy Location: Everywhere :)	I hope we won't be seeing this enterprising Maverick in the Court in a few years from now for conning people into buying something (like ourcrazymodern? said) he doesn't even own. __________________ How you bore me, Florrie, With those eyes of vacant blue; You'll be very sorry, Florrie If I marry you. Though I'm easy-goin', Florrie, This I swear is true, I'll throw you down a quarry, Florrie, If I marry you. - Saki.

04-10-2007, 09:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
Laugh-O-Matic Crazy Location: Everywhere :)	I'm surprised no one's cracked a Uranus joke yet. __________________ How you bore me, Florrie, With those eyes of vacant blue; You'll be very sorry, Florrie If I marry you. Though I'm easy-goin', Florrie, This I swear is true, I'll throw you down a quarry, Florrie, If I marry you. - Saki.

04-11-2007, 01:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	.. Last edited by flat5; 05-03-2008 at 02:20 AM..

04-11-2007, 05:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	Then call us stupid, because Grancey bought part of a crater that happens to share the same last name as mine and gave it to me for a birthday awhile back. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

04-10-2007, 09:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	He doesn't own it because I own it. (And I'm charging less)

04-10-2007, 09:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Only an idiot would buy land on the moon. Mars, on the other hand....

04-11-2007, 05:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	I don't see anything I should get worried about except perhaps that there are still people dumb enough to even think of this kind of scheme and the even dumber ones who go along with it. To me it's just another version of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale rather than rape of the Moon. About selling stuff you don't own, have you checked out ebay lately?

04-11-2007, 06:09 AM	#15 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	If he sold 400 million acres for $20/acre and only made $9 million he sucks more at math than I do. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam