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Old 02-17-2007, 11:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Culture of Fear: 0, Science: 1 - Drug rape myth exposed

<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=436592&in_page_id=1770">
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Drug rape myth exposed as study reveals binge drinking is to blame   click to show 

[The study] showed 65 per cent of women had 160mg of alcohol in their blood - twice the 80mg drink/drive limit - and a quarter were three times over the limit. Although all the patients denied taking drugs such as cocaine and amphetamine, one fifth tested positive.

But tests for drugs such as Rohypnol, GHB and ketamine found nothing, says the study published in the Emergency Medicine Journal.
I found this really interesting. Let me be clear from the beginning of this post that I don't think these findings absolve men who take advantage of women at bars in any way whatsoever. However, I found the story interesting because of all the Oprah episodes, after school specials, and nightly news stories there have been about Rohypnol and GHB. So, it turns out that men slipping drugs into drinks at bars isn't all that common, and the women were simply irresponsible with their drinking. The article sums it up quite nicely: "be careful - not just about having your drink spiked - but how much alcohol you have." Do you think these findings will actually have any effect on our culture of fear? What about increasing awareness and responsibility when people are out drinking? Or do you think these findings will be manipulated for more malicious purposes, such as trying to place more blame on rape victims?
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Date rape drug = not a big risk. It kinda figures that people would blame the boogey man for their irresponsible behavior.
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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But tests for drugs such as Rohypnol, GHB and ketamine found nothing, says the study published in the Emergency Medicine Journal.
I was under the impression that Rohypnol went through the system so quickly that it couldn't be detected. Wouldn't this explain why they couldn't find any traces of it?

-Tamerlain
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tamerlain
I was under the impression that Rohypnol went through the system so quickly that it couldn't be detected. Wouldn't this explain why they couldn't find any traces of it?

-Tamerlain
That is very true.
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlain
I was under the impression that Rohypnol went through the system so quickly that it couldn't be detected. Wouldn't this explain why they couldn't find any traces of it?

-Tamerlain
Rohypnol is a benzodiazepine, like valium or xanax, which remains in the system for 2 - 3 days (or up to 10 if taken regularly, though that wouldn't factor in this situation).

GHB remains in the system for 1 - 2 days.

Ketamine (slang: "K", "Special K", "Vitamin K") remains in the system for 2 - 4 days.

The specific amount of time for each of these to leave your body is different, and since benzodiazepines are water-solluble (a biology term, not meaning they dissolve in water as a pill), they are excreted in the urine after being used. The quicker the researchers get a urine sample, the higher the success rate of finding the drug in the system. For a woman, especially one with lower body weight, it can take more than enough time for the drug to leave the system and the hospital to catch it- keep in mind that the women studied will either have gone right to the hospital after the rape, or the next morning. Either way, there should be more than sufficient evidence to detect its presence.

Last edited by analog; 02-17-2007 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 02-19-2007, 07:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Wow, that is really interesting stuff. If it's not a drug, then the person drinking heavily is to blame?? Only partially I guess.
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Old 02-19-2007, 07:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I can attest to the blackout issue. I am one of those people who completely lose large portions of a night after to much alcohol and reading this is not surprising to me. Once I lose the night, I lose the night. i remember nothing and can only piece together it slightly from little clues I find (and my camera). This just proves that as a female, you need not put yourself in this situation or if you might let it happen, its absolutely necessary to surround yourself with those you trust and hope they will ensure your safety (but even thats still risky).
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hair tests are a way of determining if drugs were used in this type of situation, and those results will come up for a much longer period of time.

Not only, but if they decided to cut their hair, on their entire body, every square inch.

They can shave off a layer of fingernail and test that and it'll come upw ith the results as well.
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serlindsipity
I can attest to the blackout issue. I am one of those people who completely lose large portions of a night after to much alcohol and reading this is not surprising to me. Once I lose the night, I lose the night. i remember nothing and can only piece together it slightly from little clues I find (and my camera). This just proves that as a female, you need not put yourself in this situation or if you might let it happen, its absolutely necessary to surround yourself with those you trust and hope they will ensure your safety (but even thats still risky).
Of course you could just drink less...

I love that you have your camera to document that which you have forgotten. There is a great concept piece in there somewhere: Fragments of a forgotten Binge -- or something like that.

Most likely would be really boring but I bet you could come up with a really cool angle for it.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I love that you have your camera to document that which you have forgotten.
Memento anyone?
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by willravel
Date rape drug = not a big risk. It kinda figures that people would blame the boogey man for their irresponsible behavior.
Not all of us do.
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I guess the appellate courts will be loaded up with cases now.
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Old 02-20-2007, 09:08 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Charlie - Have improved considerably, just wanted you to know =) Ask WK, Im trying to keep that shit in line.
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Old 02-20-2007, 09:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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alcohol == date rape drug.

If a girl is drunk as hell it is still rape.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincentt
alcohol == date rape drug.

If a girl is drunk as hell it is still rape.
Interesting... would have been good to have your input on the "Sex: It's a commitment" thread awhile back...
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Indeed, no one here (or in the study) is arguing that taking advantage of someone who is not in a position to make level-headed decisions is rape. However, how much alcohol is consumed is something one can control, whereas being literally drugged is not.

Recognizing that there are things someone can do to lessen their chances of becoming a victim is not minimizing the tragedy of being a victim, it's simply recognizing that nothing is truly ever 100% out of our control.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think what the point is -is that rape is not only under-reported it is also overreported. What that means is that women who are raped -often do not report it to the authorities. Ironically women who are not raped -often falsely report being raped for a number of reasons.
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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This doesn't surprise me at all. Everyone wants to blame anyone or anything but themselves for their actions. The one time I blacked out I was told that I drank about half a bottle of Absinth during the part I don't remember. I could easily have said that I've had more than that to drink and still remembered it (which is the truth) and the vodka or beer I had was spiked in order to avoid admitting that I drank more than half of the people there combined, but I shrugged and decided not to do it again.

I'm a big advocate of personal responsibility, and bullshit like crying "my drink was spiked" after I saw you pour enough to get me (6'8"/315lbs) drunk into your 115 pound self is not going to get you any sympathy. I drink with my friends enough to know if one of them is acting differently than normal; I've known enough druggies to recognize what most drugs will do to a sober or drunk person and can respond accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlain
I was under the impression that Rohypnol went through the system so quickly that it couldn't be detected. Wouldn't this explain why they couldn't find any traces of it?
You have 72 hours to test for flunitrazepam before tests are too unreliable to detect it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrocloud
I think what the point is -is that rape is not only under-reported it is also overreported. What that means is that women who are raped -often do not report it to the authorities. Ironically women who are not raped -often falsely report being raped for a number of reasons.
There are many cases where our society's idiotic stigma regarding casual sex leads people to feel guilty when they shouldn't. Unfortunately, it's often easier to claim to have been raped than to admit you just wish you remembered it. It would make life a lot easier for those who are actually sexually assaulted.
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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My message was more of a warning.
Many frat guys think getting a girl drunk is 'fine.'
However, I'm sure date-rape cases have ruined many lives.
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