Manorfire

You may already know this, but currently, somewhere out there, scientists are growing real meat in a laboratory - that's meat grown independently of any animal. It isn't hatched or born and it'll never graze, walk or breathe, yet it is still alive and growing in a room where somebody called it into existence with a pipette and syringe.

They call it "cultured meat" and it is supposed to save us from the execrable pollution and guilt of factory farms while still allowing people to stuff their gullets with bacon butties whenever they want to. It already exists in ground or chipped form, but now Dutch scientists are working on a product that will cost a few dollars per pound instead of a few thousand. They say it could be as little as five years away.

The concept is so simple that even I can basically explain it: you take some stem cells, or myoblasts, which are the precursors to muscle cells, and lay them on a lubricated scaffold that they can attach to. Put them in a "growth medium" - some kind of fluid supplying the nutrients that blood would ordinarily provide - and "exercise" them regularly by administering electric currents and mechanically stretching the sheets of cells. Then wait, harvest and eat....oops, I guess you cook it first?

Regarding human health, artery-clogging fat could be swapped, in vitro, in favour of salmon fat. Regarding human tastebuds, they just need to make it more palatable. Add it all up, and some people find cultured meat a splendid idea. Of course, there's the 'yuck' factor and the tampering with nature angle. However, I would say cultured meat is not inherently more unnatural and icky than producing meat from animals raised intensively in their own feaces and fed on antibiotics, but perhaps this is just me? Would you buy this lab-grown meat?

The_Jazz

Other than the muscle cells didn't come from a living animal, what's the problem? It's healthier (at least in theory) and much likely going to be tastier since the muscle cells won't have to work very hard, which is what makes beef tough.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

CSflim

I'd buy it for sure if it tasted good and was deemed healthy. It seems that "proper" meat (like steak or whatever) is still quite some time away, but replacements for processed meats could be available reasonably soon.

from http://www.new-harvest.org/faq.htm
For those who cannot get over the "yuck" factor, I would say with Manorfire, that meat grown in a lab is significantly less "yucky" than the, usually inhumanely cruel, process we currently use of killing animals.

__________________

JustJess

I have to agree completely with CSflim - if it tastes good, and isn't any worse/maybe even better for you, how can this be a bad thing? It might take some getting used to... but I can totally see us going the way of Star Trek, looking back at our former selves with horror at our barbarity! Once they get the overall costs down... I'm seeing solutions to world hunger issues arising. That is only positive.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

ironman

I say bring it on!!!

__________________
If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

Terminal Frost

I've never eaten a peice of meat in my life and I never intend to. The mere thought of it is absolutely disgusting to me. That being said, if I had to eat meat (or die) I'd rather kill a wild animal and eat it than buy some factory-grown tissue.

The reality is, however, that none of us do have to eat meat, so I'll continue being a vegetarian 'till the day I die.

BadNick

I didn't think this was about canabilism, at least not the traditional form of canabilism

I was just recently reading about and thinking if I'd even eat meat from a cloned animal and I am thinking "no" on that. But this sounds more palatable to me except it is starting to remind me of Soylent Green

Miss Mango

Id eat clones or vat-grown foods, either one.

Were going to need this tech if we plan on living on this earth for much longer. The amount of energy wasted in food production will have to come down. Its a mathmatical truism; any squeamishness we feel on the subject is irrelevant.

We WILL be eating stuff like this in our lifetimes, barring plague, war or asteroid-strike...

snowy

I already eat mycoprotein grown in a vat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn

My boyfriend is a vegetarian, so we tried these Quorn things. They actually have the consistency and texture of meat, unlike soy substitutes. Their chicken nuggets actually taste and feel like chicken nuggets. Delicious. If you see them at your supermarket, please, grab a box and give them a try

As for meat grown in vats or labs--if it puts an end to the environmental damage that our current methods of meat production cause, then I'm all for it.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

dlish

as long as its tested and proven ok for human consumption then i'd buy it. hell.. most things you buy off the shelf have so many chemicals and preservatives in them that you're eating engineered foods anyways!

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

The_Jazz

I for one welcome the day when the cow farts stop tearing apart our atmosphere.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Lady Sage

Darn those flatulant bovine! I am doing my part by eating as many of them as possible but I am only one person!!!!

I will give it a try but if the fake steak doesnt taste like the real thing...

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

StanT

Hell, if it looks like cow and tastes like cow, I'd eat it.

As for the "yuck" factor, who ever decided that lobsters were edible? or that you could improve grape juce by letting it rot?

The_Jazz

Mmmm, surf and turf with a nice big cabernet..... It's only 8 am, but I'm hungry now. I wonder what time Gibson's opens for lunch?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

little_tippler

I'd be willing to try it if it had been thoroughly tested beforehand over a long period of time, by this I mean years. To prove that it doesn't have an ill effect in the long-term, like causing cancer or altering anything negatively in human bodies. But yes, if it saves suffering, tastes great or better than the "living" one, why not? Freaky but it sounds like a good idea.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

JustJess

Coming back to this... I think I'd mostly be concerned about the taste/texture. As it is, most of us grew up eating animals bred for consumption. Meaning... eating a game bird or wild venison or something tastes so much "gamier" than what we're used to... often to the negative, I find. I don't like game because it doesn't taste "right" to me. Doesn't it seem like we will only go further down that road with "grown meat"? Won't even the steak we love now taste weird and "gamey" once we eat mainly grown meat?

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

little_tippler

That's an interesting point, as I have plenty of friends who don't like red meat because of the taste. I like my beef rare, so I don't have that issue. But I'm guessing the point of creating this meat is to stop slaughtering animals for food...but that brings up another interesting issue - what happens to them then? Will we keep cows and sheep, without a profit, just for fun? Will we let them roam wild? Sounds impossible, where can they do that really, nowadays? And do they just reproduce as much as they want and start becoming a massive population? Shall we keep turkeys as pets? Overall, it would be hard to stop consuming "real" meat. There are A LOT of cows and sheep etc. out there. If we stop, there will be a major hitch in "balance" in terms of natural selection. Sure, it's not natural now, there are so many humans to so little of everything else. But it's a balance of sorts. Humans are probably not going to stop increasing in population any time soon. Is there room for that many more animals, if we stop preying on them? I know this is a sensitive issue but I think you'll agree that there are some interesting issues at stake here.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

JustJess

I think it might even itself out - after all, the reason there are so many animals is because we keep forcefully breeding more.

However, that brings up another point - same issue as with the auto industry, actually - what about the economics of no longer needing this part of agriculture? What about all those jobs, especially in the poorer countries?

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

Brewmaniac

Hey if it will solve the world hunger problem, I'm behind it all the way! I can see a day when beef, pork and other live stock will be for the well off and lab grown meat will be for the poor.

__________________
"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son"

Charlatan

Let's get some and taste it.

Hell, it can't be much worse than the hormone and antibiotic laden stuff in our current food supply.

Even if it tasted a bit different and had a different texture, I could get used to it if I knew it was safe and reduced the environmental damage the feed lots create.

Bring. It. On.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Manic_Skafe

Surely it'd be less cruel and it may even taste better but why is it that we're so willing to build monuments to tomorrow's technology instead of dealing with the very real and tangible reality we live in today. Perhaps I'm too realistic but I don't see why our every technological advance must be spawned from worsening conditions as the result of our actions and our endless obsession with convenience.

Simply put, lab-grown mystery meat isn't the solution to world hunger nor are fuel alternatives the solution to the adverse effect the auto industry has on our planet - it all stems from the fact that none of these band-aids we create are solutions to the original problem that we as a species are the biggest chink in the chain and that until we reexamine our role on this planet we'll only take significant steps towards the earths paralysis and our eventual extinction.

All of this technology and we still have yet to prove causality beyond the state of being a theory.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Jimellow

Would humans be susceptible to the same illnesses/sicknesses associated with eating raw meat from real animals?

__________________
Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

CandleInTheDark

I prefer real animals thank you very much. I like science, but some things just totally removes us from our nature, and that is disconcerting.

__________________
Where there is doubt there is freedom.

DaElf

I don't see how you could get sick from it unless it was handled wrong.

What will happen to pigs once they have perfect bacon and sausage?
I guess they would have to find a good way to make pickled pigs feet.

__________________
I'm sitting at my desk right now waiting for you to reply to the above message.

The_Jazz

And you know this how?

And you know this how?

And you know this how?

"Artificial" meat has nothing to do with causality. At all. And never will. You're comparing apples and the number i.

Look, I don't mean this as a flame, but you have no way of knowing if any of your statements will prove true. They may be true RIGHT NOW, but what about a year from now? Discoveries build off one another, and there's no predicting what this will lead to. It could be everyone on the planet's immediate and gruesome death, but we don't have any way of proving that either.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Miss Mango

I dont think that its as simple as just cloning muscle tissue in a test tube or vat, though.

What makes meat taste like meat? A leg of a chicken or a rib of a cow has fat, nerves, veins, bone marrow, blood and all kinds of microscopic things that make it taste like what it does. Without all of those components, would it taste the same? It\'s not just muscle fibers that would need to be cloned to simulate a full-grown animal part.

healer

Miss Mango makes a good point - what about the bones? Is my T-Bone steak now going to be bonelss? Will 'rump' and 'sirloin' taste the same? Will the saying 'sucking the marrow out of life' become a distant memory?

At first glance it looks like a good idea but I'm worried about the economic impact of it all. If you can produce a whole cow's worth of meat faster and cheaper than my buddy who has a farm and a coupla dozen employees...well, sucks to be them. On the flipside we have the world hunger issue and it's possible benefits there.

I'll hold off on the fake meat until its been thoroughly tested and all of that. Who knows, maybe real cow will become some kind of a delicacy in the next 10-15 years.

__________________

CSflim

Well, for the foreseeable future, nobody is talking about creating artificial steak, or other regular cuts of meat. Rather the cultured meat is aimed at offering an alternative to stuff like sausages and chicken nuggets.

See the link I posted above.

__________________

snowy

Seriously--if you have it where you live, go try Quorn. It sounds a bit odd to eat something that was grown in a vat, but it's delicious. And it will make you feel a lot better about the future of actual meat grown in vats.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

opus123

I have heard that cliche of "5 years away" for thousands of products. Not sure, but it seems like 1 percent of products actually reach finality and acceptance.

But then taste and texture are important selling points and since resaurants don't have to detail what they are selling, they might get a toe hold into the meat market that way.

Jonathan

__________________
"We are sure to be losers when we quarrel with
ourselves. It is a civil war, and in all such
contentions, triumphs are defeats." Mr Colton
==================================

Manic_Skafe

Because they're nothing more than temporary solutions to a problem that's much deeper than the obsession with being everywhere as soon as possible or the millions that starve to death each year.

But if you'd like to take my words in their most literal sense, how much do you think this mystery meat will cost by the time it gets to the shelves of every supermarket in America? When you consider the materials, scientists and technicians, the rigorous testing...there isn't a way to produce this meat cheaply and safely and there certainly isn't a way it'll be any cheaper than normal - from an animal meat. Despite the original post, five years is highly unlikely as is the claim that it'll only be a few dollars per pound.

Now tell why the entire auto industry isn't converted over to zero emissions cars or you tell me why me why so many go starving - give me one reason that doesn't boil down to money/politics or a great inconvenience and I'll be more than willing enough to tell you that there's nothing wrong with the way we (as a species) value human existence and our role on this planet.

Actually no - I made the correlation obvious enough in my last post and you're either trying not to understand or are unfit for conversation due to a lack of reading comprehension skills.

You can believe me to be the biggest kook in the world but when I opened my front door this morning I did so to a sixty-five degree early January day in New York City. Couple today with Katrina and the reports of the possibly tragic storm-filled summer to come and that's proof enough to me.

However, I can't remember ever declaring that I had anything more than opinions to offer.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

debaser

Somehow I think this stuff will fall a bit short of the grass fed galloway I'm used to...

__________________

snowy

QUORN.

What else do I have to say? The answer to this thread is QUORN.

If you haven't tried it in response TO YOUR meat response, I suggest you do so. IT TASTES JUST LIKE CHICKEN NUGGETS.

I'm NOT KIDDING.

If you want meat grown in a vat, THE FUTURE IS HERE: IT IS QUORN.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Willy

Very interesting. ANd sure I would eat the stuff, assuming it tastes better than current "fake meat".

Val_1

Seems to me that the biggest advantage of cultured meat is disease prevention. Food born illnesses such as E Coli are introduced into meat by the often dirty and dangerous meat processing. Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow) and other diseased meat is kept, processed, and sold because of difficulty weeding out the diseased animals. Not to mention, farms used to raise meat have excessive waste run off that can pollute the ground water. If cultured meat becomes viable, I'll give it a try. The potential pay offs are worth it.

__________________

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

-Frank Sinatra

stevie667

There will always be a market for real meat, because people will always pay for 'authentic' stuff.

Could be good though, i'm looking forward to a rump steak 5" thick the size of a plate

__________________
Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

Ourcrazymodern?

If eating meat did not involve the death of creatures, I'd have fewer qualms about it. Even so, what is life without steak?(tongue in cheek)?

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Charlatan

You know what? No one here has mentioned anything about Quorn. Did you know it is a protein that is already created in vats?

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Ourcrazymodern?

Is quorn an acronym or what? #29& had it in it.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

snowy

Quorn Logo:



Quorn Nuggets:



Quorn Cutlet:




Quorn Roast:

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau