Boulder CO, talk about zero tolerance - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dksuddeth · 10-07-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

A 17-year-old Boulder High senior faces a $250 fine — stiffer than a ticket for speeding through a school zone — for playing Hacky Sac.

His offense: "releasing projectiles" on the Pearl Street Mall.

"I had no idea Hacky Sac is a crime," Kallen Ford said.

He knows now.

A Boulder police officer clued him in just after 6 p.m. Tuesday.

Ford said he and a buddy were lobbing a Hacky Sac back and forth in the fountain area outside the Boulder County Courthouse when Officer Colin Stephens approached.

"I turned around and saw him, and I didn't think anything of it," Ford said. "I thought he was going to ask us to do it away from kids or something."

Instead, Stephens asked for the footbag and requested the pair come sit by him, Ford said. The teens did as they were told, but asked if the officer had the authority to take their sack, according to Ford.

"He said it's evidence in a crime," Ford said. "He said you can't Hacky Sac on the mall."

Stephens, who couldn't be reached for comment Wednesday, escorted Ford to the Pearl Street police annex and issued him a $250 ticket for "releasing projectiles on the mall," according to Ford. He explained that the footbag is a projectile because it flies through the air.

Signs posted along the mall warn, "Do not throw Frisbees or other projectiles."

Police spokeswoman Julie Brooks said Wednesday that she couldn't comment about Ford's ticket because she hasn't seen it. The citation and Stephens' notes on why he issued the summons have been sent to Boulder Municipal Court, where Ford is due to appear Tuesday.

"Our job is to enforce the law and protect the safety of the community. Even if it was a basic violation of playing Hacky Sac," Brooks said.

Brooks' department didn't release the minor's identity; Ford volunteered the information.

The teen said he has spent many days and nights on the mall lobbing the beanbag, and he never noticed signs that he thought restricted a game of Hacky Sac.

That was the argument Ford gave Stephens, before requesting a warning as a first-time offender.

"I guess you can't throw a football in a park in Boulder without getting a ticket," Ford said.

When the teen returned home and handed the yellow citation to his mother, Margaret Pilcher, she said she was upset and wanted to talk to the police.

"We've been told we've got to clean up the mall," is what Pilcher said she was told.

Stephen Barnes, 16, has been hacking along Denver's 16th Street Mall for years and said he's never been in trouble for it.

"It's an awesome spectator sport," he said. "And we've never gotten in trouble, not remotely."

Ford said he doesn't want to get fined again, and he would prefer to stay out of trouble.

"But I want to be able to do it still, because it's fun," he said. "I'll move off the mall if I have to. But I want to figure out a way so it's not against the law."

Now, I wonder if that means that high school sports are illegal?
Or is this just 'selective prosecution?

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/count...4119%2C00.html

The_Jazz · 10-07-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

Now, I wonder if that means that high school sports are illegal?

If they're playing in the mall, then yes. The mall had signs posted not to do exactly what the kids were doing. Is it silly to write a ticket? Absolutely. Should they have been kicked out of the mall with no ticket written? Absolutely. As a guy that writes a lot of liability insurance for a lot of malls, I can tell you that posting a sign and then not doing anything to enforce that rule is a direct path to a lawsuit, should anything happen. The hackey sac could hit someone's cup, knock it over and cause someone to slip and fall, and guess who's going to pay for that injury. That's right, the mall (or more accurately, their insurance company).

This is silly, but there was clearly a sign with the rule posted. It's exactly the same as someone running at the pool, only the danger extends beyond the runner.

If there wasn't a sign, by the way, I would agree wholeheartedly with you.

flstf · 10-07-2006, 09:18 AM

Five Man Electrical Band - Signs, 1970

Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

The_Jazz · 10-07-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

Five Man Electrical Band - Signs, 1970

Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

Good point, but it doesn't change the facts. I don't like it, but those who own the property get to make the rules.

Gilda · 10-07-2006, 11:28 AM

The rules were clearly posted, and they chose to break the rules. The penalty was a bit harsh. I think asking them to leave the mall and play elsewhere would have been more reasonable, but the rule itself I have no problem with.

When you're in someone else's home, you follow their rules or you leave.

Gilda

Gatorade Frost · 10-07-2006, 11:33 AM

Apparently it's not just mall policy if they had a 250 dollar ticket written over it. Sounds like that's city law mixed in.

dksuddeth · 10-07-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorade Frost

Apparently it's not just mall policy if they had a 250 dollar ticket written over it. Sounds like that's city law mixed in.

and THIS was my thinking in my OP. A city cop wrote a ticket for THAT particular issue. Not trespassing or loitering or anything else that you'd normally get cited for on private property.

flstf · 10-07-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

When you're in someone else's home, you follow their rules or you leave.Gilda

Yep, and in this case give them $250 on your way out.

Cynthetiq · 10-07-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

Five Man Electrical Band - Signs, 1970

Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

nope apparently they could't and didn't.

JumpinJesus · 10-07-2006, 01:44 PM

I may have read the article wrong, but isn't this "mall" a park-type mall and not a shopping mall?

I understand people's arguments about following the rules of the owner of the property and such, but the sign "Do not throw frisbees or other projectiles" leaves the rule vague and hard to define. If they were playing Hacky Sac, then they weren't throwing anything. This whole deal seems a bit stupid to me. But then, I know there are always two sides to every story, and stupid usually wins.

analog · 10-07-2006, 02:11 PM

Can you say "power trip", boys and girls? I knew you could.

mirevolver · 10-07-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

I may have read the article wrong, but isn't this "mall" a park-type mall and not a shopping mall?

Yes, it was at the Pearl St. Mall, which is a pedestrian only zone of Pearl St. in Boulder. It's not a shopping mall.
This is the place they're talking about:

Welcome to Boulder, CO. The cops are really good at finding things to give you fines for, but don't ask them to solve a murder case.

10-07-2006, 11:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	The rules were clearly posted, and they chose to break the rules. The penalty was a bit harsh. I think asking them to leave the mall and play elsewhere would have been more reasonable, but the rule itself I have no problem with. When you're in someone else's home, you follow their rules or you leave. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

10-07-2006, 11:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	Apparently it's not just mall policy if they had a 250 dollar ticket written over it. Sounds like that's city law mixed in. __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

10-07-2006, 01:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I may have read the article wrong, but isn't this "mall" a park-type mall and not a shopping mall? I understand people's arguments about following the rules of the owner of the property and such, but the sign "Do not throw frisbees or other projectiles" leaves the rule vague and hard to define. If they were playing Hacky Sac, then they weren't throwing anything. This whole deal seems a bit stupid to me. But then, I know there are always two sides to every story, and stupid usually wins. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

10-07-2006, 09:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	Five Man Electrical Band - Signs, 1970 Sign Sign everywhere a sign Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

10-07-2006, 02:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
analog Banned	Can you say "power trip", boys and girls? I knew you could.