Intense1

Thank you, dlishsguy, for your welcome. I hope to comport myself as gracious in response of your post.

The story I wrote of is indeed true, and also aweful. I also understand that there is indeed a propaganda war in play in Indonesia, and that it is a battle for the hearts of Muslims and Christians (and Buddhists, as Bali is in Indonesia) alike. I am straining with all my might to keep my mind open, to believe that the Prophet Muhammad did not command his faithful to kill infidels where they find them, but that is all we have heard from the Koran. (pardon, please, my spelling)

You have written that the Ambon attackers are the "furthest from the fold of Islam". How then can they quote the Prophet's words and make it seem as if He would be behind such an attack? Since Islam doesn't condone this kind of acts of violence, how can it continue with the support of Islamic leaders, who are in very much control of countries such as Indonesia?

I would like to learn more about the first martyr of Islam.... can you give me reference where I can learn? I would like to do so, as she deserves to have others know of her, besides Muslims. And I suspect, she was probably killed by those who claimed to be Christians. Such were the times of the crusades - they thought they were carrying out "God's will", yet they were not. Jesus would not have done such a thing, ever.

Yes, political tensions are strong, but I am interested in what you think about this: are the times, in countries such as Indonesia, dictated by political leaders who are dealing with Muslim elements, or Muslim leaders dealing with political elements?

Yes moderates seem to have a very small voice. Aahh, what can we do?

I am sorry that young Muslim boys cannot go out and play paintball without stupid reporters saying that they are terrorists in training. Yes, it is a very difficult day for well balanced Muslims, my friend. I am indeed sorry. I hope the young men can be encouraged that they're being targeted in this way not because of who they are, but because there are those who do not truly understand Islam, and we cannot tell the difference. So they must rise up and show the world what the Prophet truly says, so that the world can see the difference.

And the "kafuffle" thing? This Jesus Camp is for me this. There is no real taste to what they are doing - just emotion. And that's not what Jesus would do. No indeed.

Salaam Alechem (forgive the spelling)

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snowy

I saw this movie last night. If you haven't seen it, it's out on video now, so go rent it and watch it.

What you see in the movie is nothing short of brainwashing. I agree that parents have the right to raise their children in whatever way they wish, but it's hard to stomach the absolute control these parents and pastors wield over these children. These children live in a world that is more or less a giant bubble, where they are protected from outside information and disinformed by the people inside the bubble. These evangelicals talk about their love of freedom, yet they give their children none.

Even their youth pastor agrees that what they are doing in this movie is extreme indoctrination, and she sees nothing wrong with it as it is what Muslims are doing to their children. To me, this just seems to be sinking to their level, and I want no part of it.

It's quite scary to me to think that a not-insignificant portion of the United States would restrict their children so and indoctrinate them with this kind of intellectual poison. I say this as a mainline Protestant. Children should have the choice in what they believe, and adults should respect their roles as educators, not abuse them, as they did in the film.

It's also very disturbing to see all the sheeple.

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Ourcrazymodern?

As long as believers disrespect those who don't they shouldn't be surprized that their children experience disrespect from those contrary. These are all foolishly arbitrary distinctions, my fellow human beings.

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jorgelito

Would you apply those same standards to Muslims or Jews, or is it just Christians?

Ourcrazymodern?

SIR! If I lumped all the believers into the same group, would that be a foolishly arbitrary distinction?

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jorgelito

Well, I guess I am asking for clarification because it seems like you are only talking about Christians.

analog

I think the overall message here is what's important, not so much exactly who he may or may not have been addressing:

If you show disrespect to people, you shouldn't be surprised that you're disrespected back.

I think this is a poignant statement that works on many more subjects than just religion, let alone any specific religions.

EDIT: Side-note... I watched this movie a week or so ago, and it's scary shit. Brainwashing of the highest (yet, really, the lowest) order.

Halx

Damn it. Now I have nothing to post.

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Infinite_Loser

I'm going to use a phrase commonly tossed around here: "Focus on your own damn family!" So long as they're not advocating violence, then you shouldn't care what a parent decides to teach their children, right? I mean... I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard the following argument.

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Willravel

What about advocating hate? I'm sure many people on TFP have felt the sting of racism, sexism, etc. While I can't stop a parent from teaching their kid the racist idea that black people are less human than white people, teaching them to hate them is going a step too far.

noodle

I saw this movie about 8 months ago. I still have nightmares from time to time.
Even our Chaplain where I work was "horrified," in her own words, that children would cry and work themselves into hysterics over things that they have done that are part of growing up and learning to be a part of society. The guilt that these kids were influenced to feel was just a shame.
And the red tape over their mouths? Just try to touch my kid. What six year old truly grasps what abortion is?
From kurty[B].... the sad part is, most of those are the homeschooled ones. I didn't see one that was in public school. Maybe I missed a kiddo.

But the little girl with the big blue eyes... I swear they were giving her something. I've worked with kids for 14 years and seen a lot of spiritual moments and enthusiastic children. But that poor child was on something. IMO.

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Ourcrazymodern?

(lumping all the believers into the same group)

If brain-washing the children was possible, parenting would be easier.

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connyosis

I saw this movie a few days ago on TV, and it scared the hell out of me. Those poor kids are being brainwashed, and their parents just let that happen.

Also, the "If muslims train their kids to be terrorists, so should we" statement blew my mind. It's so wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start...

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If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

MSD

I've watched the movie. It's an appropriate comparison. Screaming "Godwin" every time someone mentions Hitler is old hat.

Ourcrazymodern?

Pavlov was not very kind. (Well, considering validity.)

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