Advertising in the new millenia - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

xepherys · 07-24-2006, 07:32 AM

So, I've had a few discussions with people lately about the effectiveness of advertising. My standpoint is usually to the effect of... Why does McDonald's need to advertise? Everyone, basically, in the world knows who they are, what a Big Mac is and where the nearest McD's is to them. I either want it or I don't, a commercial with some kid eating Chicken Nuggets, or some crazy clown (or king as the case may be) does NOT make me hungry. In fact, the trend is growing that people don't watch commercials, more and more. This link talks about "audience engagement" guarantees from the broadcast networks and the plan to provide data. The assupmtion is

Quote:

Originally Posted by From the Article

"For NBC, engagement will be measured by IAG Research, which will poll audience members to find out how well they can recall certain plot points and other information. The idea is that viewers who are engaged in the show will also be paying more attention to the commercials. Advertisers seem to like the new set up, and in fact have been the ones pushing for it."

I don't agree at all. In fact, I can discuss plotlines for shows I watched a few weeks ago (I only usually watch shows I want to to beign with) but I cna't usually tell you about the commercials by the time the next set of commercials start. Often, if I do remember a clever commercial, I don't recall who it's for becuase the commercial was entertaining, but the service was useless to me. Is that really worth advertising dollars? Think of what a company, again McDonald's, could do if they spent a single year NOT adveritising, but making their food tastier, healthier and better, and then advertising THAT the next year.

That said, I can understand advertising a new product, or a sale... but just general advertising, especially if the same commercial gets played every ten minutes, is just annoying most of the time. I'd rather have a 30-minutes slot filled with a 28-minute long program that had advertising built in. Don't make a fake label for the Coke can... sell the fact the people are watching that show and will see their favorite character drinking Coke. It's recurring, it valuable and it's more gauranteed that any other method... which is one of the reasons why video game advertising is on the rise. If I'm playing Grand Theft Auto 8: Kill Them All, I'd rather see a Coca-Cola billboard or a McDonald's billboard in the game than one for "Jimmy Joe Bob's Fake Stuff Emporium". If nothing else, it adds to the emersion. The same could be applied for TV spots. First, I'm more engaged by the program, and wait until commercials to go to the bathroom, get food, get a drink, check my email, et cetera. With the ever-shrinking attention span of most Americans, commercials CANNOT really compete for our time. If the product placement was IN the show I was watching, I'd probably barely even notice, but the message would still BE there. How is that NOT the best way to go... viewers get MORE of their favorite shows per hour, which brings a larger viewing audience... and still get the ad revenue, maybe even MORE ad revenue because now the companies don't need to spend as much filming TV commercials, they can pass some of that $$$ to the networks. Win win, much?

So... what are your thoughts? Anyone in the broadcast industry? Anyone working for NBC? I'm happy to take a nice juicy paycheck for the best advertising scheme ever!

edit: As a sidenote, anyone who looks at the last link will see a brief mention of it as TV spots as well as movie/video game spots. However, it's still MUCH much more rare. How many reality shows have the pop can fuzzed out or the logo on someone's shirt or anything else of the sort. Turn that blur into dollars, yo!

Jinn · 07-24-2006, 07:43 AM

Two days ago, a buddy of mine bought a CD entirely because there was woman on the cover wearing nothing other than very skimpy white tank top and panties.

Yesterday, I bought FANTA because I wanted something sweet without caffiene. I skipped about 10 before I got to fanta, and bought it entirely because I had a crush on the fanta girls when I was younger.

Advertising works, even if you can't consciously remember it. And if they start giving dark elves and high elves in EQ2 name brand clothing.. so-help-me-god.

ScottKuma · 07-24-2006, 07:45 AM

I'm part of the problem, and I revel in it.

When I watch TV, it's usually via my TiVo, and I don't WANT to waste my time watching the commercials. I blow through them at 30x speed, and usually catch about 2 seconds of the last one.

I recognize the need for commercials to pay for the programming I watch - I just don't want to spend my time watching completely non-targeted ads.

Advertisers must hate me - but they also know that because of people like me, theirs is an art that MUST change...and is!

We're seeing more embedded advertisements - soda cans, real products being used, etc. We're also seeing more "pop-up" advertisements - anyone who watches Bravo, Sci-Fi or some of the other "second-tier" cable channels will know what I mean by that. I'm all good with those - as long as they're not too intrusive into the show I'm watching (back to your point of immersion). However, what I'm afraid will happen is that someone will get the idea to write the ad into the plot.

"You know, George, this Coke sure is tasty!"

"Yeah, send one over here....you know, Coke....is it!"

"Yup, and it's on sale this week at Meijer!"

Something's gotta change. However, the methods of change being proposed by the networks - i.e., disallowing commercial skipping for PVRs - would be totally unacceptable to me, and would mark the final day that I would use that brand of PVR.

I've heard tell of commercials written especially for the PVR user - that would allow us to get more content than other viewers. I LOVE this idea! Already there was one commercial that gave a website link if you slowed it down frame by frame - I'm waiting for the ad agency that makes an eye-catching logo that you can see while fast-forwarding. I'm more likely to go back and look at that commercial than others.

Alternatively, targeting ads to my household's taste would be a good thing - as long as they don't get completely repetitive or annoying.

xepherys · 07-24-2006, 07:49 AM

JinnKai, I'm usually not actively anti-culture, but apparently with regards to advertising I have a subconscious button that gets pushed. Things like that drive me away more than anything. A hot half-nekkid chick on a CD cover? Great! I'm not paying $15 for a picture. If the disc is sweet, then I'll pick it up.. otherwise fuggit! I've never had a crush on the polar bears, or Santa... but I buy Coke becuase I like the taste better than other colas. I tend to prefer Dove chocolate, though Nestle and Hershey do just as much advertising. Why? Because I think the flavor is better. Why wouldn't people buy something they WANTED or liked more rather than something that they saw and purchased for the hell of it. No wonder impulse buying is at an all time high. I guess I just don't get it.

I don't like Burger King at all... even for fast food I think it's greasy and tasteless. I'd almost NEVER go to one to begin with, but putting that freaky, pansy-ass king in some retarded commercials, and you've just about permanently lost me as a customer. Am I really the only one that feels this way?

Scott, I agree with you to an extent, but what's so wrong with plots that include advertising? I like to listen to radio morning shows. About 5-6 years ago, it became MUCH more popular for the DJs to read an ad then go to a commercial. I'm a fan of this. Taking 5 seconds out to read an ad, that may be funny (since I usually like morning shows with personalities that entertain me) rather than breaking to a 30 second commercial that probably WON'T be funny.

If I'm watching ER, and the vending machine guy is filling the Coke Machine with tasty red cans... who cares? That's a 3-second scene that's MUCH more powerful than a commercial I probably didn't watch so I could use the john or grab some doritos.

pornclerk · 07-24-2006, 08:01 AM

You stated that you know that McDonalds is there and if you feel like eating it you will and you don't need to see an advertisment. Well, it looks like McDonalds has you right where they want you. The point of advertising is so that businesses can make people familiar with their products. When making choices, believe it or not, we have a tendency to chose the things we are most familiar with.
Big companies like McDonalds, Pepsi, Coca Cola, and so on, want every person to see their products as something familiar. If we see it all the time on commercials and bill boards then we are more likely to make that choice when purchasing that product.
Advertising has more of an effect on people than you might think.

xepherys · 07-24-2006, 08:09 AM

Their commercials don't make me familiar... the giant golden arches that I see every three blocks makes me familiar with them. Also, they don't need to advertise the Big Mac. Does anyone here not KNOW what a Big Mac is? I'm sure most of us have had at least one in our lives, but I bet even the staunchest vegan has SEEN one. And, again, I disagree. I like small, Indie Rock stations, because it's not the same canned crap all the time. I like trying new restaurants and new types of food, because you never know what you might be missing. I like things that aren't mass produced copies of the exact same thing over and over again. But, I guess I'm alone...

If I never saw a McD's commercial again, I'd still crave their chicken nuggets now and then. Why? Not because of TV, but because I've eaten them now and then, from the time I could eat a nugget. Hell, I didn't even WATCH TV back then... I just liked the damned food.

Ample · 07-24-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

So, I've had a few discussions with people lately about the effectiveness of advertising. My standpoint is usually to the effect of... Why does McDonald's need to advertise? Everyone, basically, in the world knows who they are, what a Big Mac is and where the nearest McD's is to them. I either want it or I don't, a commercial with some kid eating Chicken Nuggets, or some crazy clown (or king as the case may be) does NOT make me hungry. In fact, the trend is growing that people don't watch commercials, more and more. This link talks about "audience engagement" guarantees from the broadcast networks and the plan to provide data. The assumption is

We all seen the "I'm Lovin' it" ads a bajillion times. Who does McD's really aiming for though? KIDS. There attention span is not as long as ours. So they pound it and pound it into there little impressionable minds. Doing two things. 1) When mommy asked the little one's where they want to eat, that pounding and pounding comes into play and Mc'Ds is the first thing that they think of. 2) They are making them life long patrons at an early age.

pornclerk · 07-24-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

Their commercials don't make me familiar... the giant golden arches that I see every three blocks makes me familiar with them. Also, they don't need to advertise the Big Mac. Does anyone here not KNOW what a Big Mac is? I'm sure most of us have had at least one in our lives, but I bet even the staunchest vegan has SEEN one. And, again, I disagree. I like small, Indie Rock stations, because it's not the same canned crap all the time. I like trying new restaurants and new types of food, because you never know what you might be missing. I like things that aren't mass produced copies of the exact same thing over and over again. But, I guess I'm alone...

If I never saw a McD's commercial again, I'd still crave their chicken nuggets now and then. Why? Not because of TV, but because I've eaten them now and then, from the time I could eat a nugget. Hell, I didn't even WATCH TV back then... I just liked the damned food.

I say the reason why you would crave it is because you are familiar with it.

Cynthetiq · 07-24-2006, 07:28 PM

actually it's been proven by both Coca Cola and Pepsi that they have increased sales when advertising, otherwise people would drink water. It's also why they got into the water business, because they figured out they wanted to be whatever you were drinking and make some coin on that.

xepherys · 07-24-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornclerk

I say the reason why you would crave it is because you are familiar with it.

Uhhh, but that doesn't require advertising. Sometimes I crave toast... I've never seen an Ad Council commercial about toast. Or the US Bread Farmers Association commercial about tasty toasted PB&Js. Why does familiarity = advertising? Frankly, I think they've gotten to you all!

Marvelous Marv · 07-24-2006, 08:52 PM

I know you're not supposed to post without expressing your opinion, but I'm having a really tough time coming up with a comment to do this justice.

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article...8&in_page_id=2

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Attack of the talking urinal
Tuesday, July 4, 2006

It's probably the last thing you need after a couple of drinks – as you walk into an empty gents, the urinal starts talking to you...

But rather than say, 'Are you pointing at me?' or 'Would you mind standing a bit closer, sir?', it could offer a much more serious message about drink-driving.

Sensors built into the machine detect when someone is approaching and a series of images flash up on a waterproof 9cm screen at the base of the loo, while the recorded message plays overhead.

Described as a 'one-of-a-kind, functional interactive device which can talk, sing, or flash a string of lights,' the American Wizmark Interactive Urinal Communicator was originally developed as a way of advertising to a captive audience. But now traffic safety officials have started using the device to hammer home the anti-drink driving message.

The 15-second message says: 'Hey You! Yeah, you. Having a few drinks? Then listen up! Had one too many? Then it's time to either call a cab or a sober friend for a ride home. It sure is safer and a hell of a lot cheaper than a fine. Make the smart choice – don't drink and drive!'

Police in Nassau County, New York, launched the programme which saw 100 specially-programmed Wizmarks distributed to bars across the county.

Officer Chris Mistron said: 'It's still early days but the reaction we're getting from people, after they get over the shock, is “hey, this is great”.

'They are coming out saying “you'll never guess what just happened to me” – it gets them talking.'

ngdawg · 07-24-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

I don't like Burger King at all... even for fast food I think it's greasy and tasteless. I'd almost NEVER go to one to begin with, but putting that freaky, pansy-ass king in some retarded commercials, and you've just about permanently lost me as a customer. Am I really the only one that feels this way?

Lord, no. That thing is like a nightmare!!! And I dislike BK as well unless it's the ONLY choice for miles and then never those gawdawful fries.
Another nightmare-those Subway commercials with John Lovitz. Really, people, fire that agency.
This is discussed at length in the Mass Media thread, but the bottom line is placing the seed in the subconscious by the advertizing media so that you 'instinctively' react, even to the worse ads-everyone remembers the Quiznos rat, as bad as those spots were and now they know Quiznos. And guess what, we just HAD to check out Quiznos when the rat started making his rounds, much as we hated him(and some actually liked him, as well as that talking baby, Bob).
Coke and Pepsi and their related restaurants had this deal a few years back-discourage the choice of water. Then they went into the water business and now you see their water products listed with their sodas on menus.
Crave toast? Name some bread brands...they gotcha....

xepherys · 07-25-2006, 09:12 AM

Another example of this is Starbucks. Starbucks has exactly $0 budgeted for advertising. If you've ever seen an ad, it's not put out by Sbux themselves. The bottline companies have put out ads for thebottled frapuccinos, but Starbucks themselves DO NOT ADVERTISE. Yet they are by and large the most well known and most money making coffee shop in the world. Crazy, huh? Are you familiar with them? It's NOT because of TV ads...

Cynthetiq · 07-25-2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

Another example of this is Starbucks. Starbucks has exactly $0 budgeted for advertising. If you've ever seen an ad, it's not put out by Sbux themselves. The bottline companies have put out ads for thebottled frapuccinos, but Starbucks themselves DO NOT ADVERTISE. Yet they are by and large the most well known and most money making coffee shop in the world. Crazy, huh? Are you familiar with them? It's NOT because of TV ads...

hmmmm...

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Starbucks is running great retro-looking TV and print ads this season - all of them matching in-store merchandising for their seasonal “Red Cup” promotion.

And, wisely, all ads lead to TheRedCup.com. Check out the site. I think they do a really good job with this site. I can’t quite put my finger on why I like it so much, but I really enjoy it.

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One of the most notable elements of Starbucks (Nasdaq: SBUX) over the years is its ability to fire up heated growth without the benefit of ubiquitous television ad spots or other more pedestrian forms of marketing. This year, Starbucks is apparently embarking on some interesting methods in getting customers' attention during the holiday season.

According to The Wall Street Journal, Starbucks has taken its marketing to the streets. Most innovative, to my way of thinking, is its Good Samaritan campaign, where magnetized cups are affixed to the tops of cars that are driven by folks on the Starbucks payroll. When passersby point out the coffee's precarious predicament, the drivers give the good Samaritans a $5 Starbucks gift card. This campaign has been going on in Seattle, Chicago, New York, and San Francisco.

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Starbucks also went to the movies in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, buying all the seats in several movie theaters so that customers who entered were told their movies were free, thanks to the company.

However, Starbucks has always been a company where marketing leaned more heavily toward word of mouth and a certain grassroots appeal than anything else. The idea that the company spread the word by spreading cheer this year seems in keeping with the culture that is Starbucks. It's good to know that Starbucks is staying true to its roots.

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Starbucks: -0- *T WHAT: Starbucks will host its first-ever Starbucks Coffee Break, inviting customers across the country to enjoy a complimentary cup of freshly brewed coffee. In stores and on street corners, from insulated brewing equipment and giant coffee backpacks, partners (employees) will pour tall (12-ounce) cups of coffee to surprise customers and delight commuters. WHEN: March 15, 2006, from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m. WHERE: More than 7,500 Starbucks U.S. Company-operated and licensed locations -- Please join us at the 6th and Union Starbucks for a special brewing demonstration. Store address: Starbucks City Center location 1420 Fifth Avenue Seattle, WA WHY: Starbucks believes in the high quality and exceptional taste of its brewed coffee, and wants to introduce this flavor to new customers. The Company also wants to thank loyal brewed-coffee customers with a surprising, complimentary cup of coffee. In addition, Starbucks Coffee Masters, certified coffee experts who have taken extra coffee classes and facilitated many coffee tastings, will be available to introduce customers to the world of coffee and offer customer tips on how to brew great coffee at home. (Media interviews and photo opportunities available.) *T

They still spend money on marketing, just not in the traditional methods of advertising.

xepherys · 07-25-2006, 09:24 AM

The rat? You mean the Sponge Monkeys? See, I still don't get it though. I don't like Quizno's, though I do like their commercials. I prefer Subway or Blimpie's. Of course, we've all seen the annoying Subway commercials with the formally-fat dude, but I'm never seen a Blimpie's commercial, yet I like them just as much. In fact, when eating out, I prefer to go to a thai restaurant. Never seen a commercial for one. How does advertising really effect this?

What about bread/toast? I haven't seen even a Wonder Bread commercial in ages. I usually get the local bakery brand because they are heartier. Soup? again, usually the stuff made at the store (Whole Foods, mostly) if I don't make it myself. In fact, I can't think of the last thing I bought that DID have an ad for it.

Let's see... I bought some QT pop last night. Yes, there are QT radio commercials now and then, but I like the variety and the flavor of their fountains far exceeds that of my local Circle K (mmm, filtered water FTW). I bought some strange chip things because they looked good... no ad in sight. I bought gas where it was cheapest, I bought groceries that were on sale (didn't look at the weekly ad, but rather the price tags in the aisles, which is, arguably, a form of advertising, but I think counterpoint to this discussion). I went to the local oriental market to buy some foods for Stir Fry and Tom Kha Gai that they don't stock at Whole Foods or Safeway. The latter of which I usually shop at due to their proximity rather than advertising. In fact, the highest ad rate for grocers locally is Albertson's (which I've NEVER been to) or Fry's, which I go to if I'm passing one and need to pick something up.

Yes, sometimes I crazy McDonald's... how does this have to do with advertising? I don't buy because of the TV. I buy because I'm hungry, have little time and see the golden arches down the block. You know what? If it was some OTHER place right there, that's probably where I'd go. It seems to me that you can make an argument for successful advertising for ANYTHING, just because it's been bought. I bought my baby a Fisher-Price toy... must be because Fisher-Price advertises (though mostly in magazines I don't read). No, not really...

Does anyone have a more definitive concept for advertising working? Not statistics (which like anyhow). Something logical and real?

Glory's Sun · 07-25-2006, 09:25 AM

Ya know it's funny, anyone who claims they hate a place, yet can quote their advertisements.. I guess it worked then didn't it? Advertisements are *not* about making money. Ok so there is some process of it that the company hopes that by advertising they will make some money in the future. Advertisement, as said earlier, is mostly about being familiar in people's minds. The more familiar you are with a company, the more you'll talk about it and there's an increased chance of someone buying the service because you just gave them free advert. Sooner or later, the companies know that if they bombard ads across the nation at $.01 per viewer and there are 100 million of you watching CSI, then at least a small percentage of those people will patronize their establishment. Why? Did it make you crave something? Nope, it's just that the next time you wanted something you were <i>familiar</i> with that name and bought their product. Pretty simple really.

xepherys · 07-25-2006, 09:27 AM

Cyn, fair enough... but non-traditional methods of marketing is what I'm going for. The standard print or TV ad has lost a great deal of effectiveness in modern America, and there are better ways to get the public's (positive) attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Ya know it's funny, anyone who claims they hate a place, yet can quote their advertisements.. I guess it worked then didn't it? Advertisements are *not* about making money. Ok so there is some process of it that the company hopes that by advertising they will make some money in the future. Advertisement, as said earlier, is mostly about being familiar in people's minds. The more familiar you are with a company, the more you'll talk about it and there's an increased chance of someone buying the service because you just gave them free advert. Sooner or later, the companies know that if they bombard ads across the nation at $.01 per viewer and there are 100 million of you watching CSI, then at least a small percentage of those people will patronize their establishment. Why? Did it make you crave something? Nope, it's just that the next time you wanted something you were <i>familiar</i> with that name and bought their product. Pretty simple really.

Eh, I don't agree. This is like the concept of "there's no such thing as bad press". Is that really true? First, yes, advertising is 100% about making money, even if not directly. If spending millions of dollars a year on ads didn't generate (or have the appearance of generating, as I believe) more revenue, companies wouldn't advertise. Look at Google. To the best of my knowledge, they do not advertise, but are one of the quickest growing companies there are... and they are 100% service related (services and products are what you need to advertise for, right?). Unless you consider offering search bars on other sites as advertising... but then putting your company or product name on anything is advertising, which is, again, counterpoint to my argument here. I'm not saying marketing is useless, I just think things need to change to capture a broader audience in today's marketspace.

Glory's Sun · 07-25-2006, 09:33 AM

I dunno xepherys, I love commericals. I find alot of them quite brilliant actually. The way a video is laid out with a perfect backtrack, or the subtle hints inside the video really make them a work of art sometimes.

Ample · 07-25-2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

Cyn, fair enough... but non-traditional methods of marketing is what I'm going for. The standard print or TV ad has lost a great deal of effectiveness in modern America, and there are better ways to get the public's (positive) attention.

What we all have seen is a shift on webpages from advertising pictures to videos. Im sure as more computers get faster we will see less and less of picture advertising and more and more video.

Is that kinda what you are shooting for, xepheyrs?

Cynthetiq · 07-25-2006, 09:47 AM

here's something non traditionaly using traditional marketing techniques

That Girl Emily

all for Court TV

Quote:

“Hi Steven,” it began, cheerily enough. “Do I have your attention now? I know all about her, you dirty, sneaky, immoral, unfaithful, poorly endowed slimeball. Everything’s caught on tape. Your (soon-to-be-ex) Wife, Emily.”

The billboard created interest, and not just from an unfaithful Steven. A booking agent from “Good Morning America” sent an e-mail to Emily inviting her on the show. British Glamour wanted to make her the subject of a feature article.

But when pictures of the billboard proliferated on Gawker, Defamer and other blogs, readers quickly dug in. One fact soon emerged, thanks to camera phone pictures: the billboard was identical to others in Brooklyn, Los Angeles and Chicago. Someone else discovered that Emily was keeping a blog, thatgirlemily.blogspot.com, detailing Steven’s infidelities. More digging showed that one Emily blog entry was oddly similar to a synopsis for an episode of “Parco P.I.," a reality show on Court TV.

Jinn · 07-25-2006, 09:53 AM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes commercials, gucci. I wanted to say it but was afraid I'd get yelled at. My girlfriend, my father.. just about everyone I know hates commercials and gets angry if I don't immediately hit the mute button.

They say their problem is that commercials are "insulting" and "make them feel stupid" but I've never felt that, no matter how inane the commercial. I'm not sure what causes the difference. At any rate, commercials ARE effective, especially if you can remember them at all. And as I attested to above, I bought things directly because of their advertisement.

Despite your protestations that they don't affect you xepherys, they clearly work or companies wouldnt spend millions upon millions of dollars to produce and display them. If you earnestly believe that they don't effect you, then you're an exception to the rule, not the rule itself.

xepherys · 07-25-2006, 10:21 AM

I like GOOD commercials, but sadly there aren't many clever, fresh commercials these days. I love Super Bowl commercials because they're USUALLY pretty good. But otherwise, most commercials are bland, and since the same commercial often gets played 2 or 3 times an hour, it gets old (just like listening to Clear Channel radio stations... a good song played 12 times a day gets annoying quickly).

Gatorade Frost · 07-25-2006, 10:35 AM

Those geico commercials are hysterical, though...

caver · 07-25-2006, 04:59 PM

I actively pay attention to commercials sometimes. I enjoy a lot of them,
some, not so much. There is one playing lately for ford, featuring the old one,
from American Idol. (Don't know his name, don't care)
Cant stand the singing "style" the jingle, or the presentation/choreography.
Where is Simon Cowell when we need him. hmmm drifting OT

Of those products I need, I try to first select the product which most closely
matches my need. All things being equal, I will buy a product with a particularly
amusing/interesting marketing approach sometimes.
There are advertisers whose marketing I enjoy,(geico) or advertising, or
which actually (almost) makes me forget I dislike a place.
These are places with great marketing, which I would prefer never to buy from.

07-24-2006, 07:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	Two days ago, a buddy of mine bought a CD entirely because there was woman on the cover wearing nothing other than very skimpy white tank top and panties. Yesterday, I bought FANTA because I wanted something sweet without caffiene. I skipped about 10 before I got to fanta, and bought it entirely because I had a crush on the fanta girls when I was younger. Advertising works, even if you can't consciously remember it. And if they start giving dark elves and high elves in EQ2 name brand clothing.. so-help-me-god. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

07-24-2006, 07:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
ScottKuma Insane Location: Maineville, OH	TiVo generation... I'm part of the problem, and I revel in it. When I watch TV, it's usually via my TiVo, and I don't WANT to waste my time watching the commercials. I blow through them at 30x speed, and usually catch about 2 seconds of the last one. I recognize the need for commercials to pay for the programming I watch - I just don't want to spend my time watching completely non-targeted ads. Advertisers must hate me - but they also know that because of people like me, theirs is an art that MUST change...and is! We're seeing more embedded advertisements - soda cans, real products being used, etc. We're also seeing more "pop-up" advertisements - anyone who watches Bravo, Sci-Fi or some of the other "second-tier" cable channels will know what I mean by that. I'm all good with those - as long as they're not too intrusive into the show I'm watching (back to your point of immersion). However, what I'm afraid will happen is that someone will get the idea to write the ad into the plot. "You know, George, this Coke sure is tasty!" "Yeah, send one over here....you know, Coke....is it!" "Yup, and it's on sale this week at Meijer!" Something's gotta change. However, the methods of change being proposed by the networks - i.e., disallowing commercial skipping for PVRs - would be totally unacceptable to me, and would mark the final day that I would use that brand of PVR. I've heard tell of commercials written especially for the PVR user - that would allow us to get more content than other viewers. I LOVE this idea! Already there was one commercial that gave a website link if you slowed it down frame by frame - I'm waiting for the ad agency that makes an eye-catching logo that you can see while fast-forwarding. I'm more likely to go back and look at that commercial than others. Alternatively, targeting ads to my household's taste would be a good thing - as long as they don't get completely repetitive or annoying. __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have. -Gerald R. Ford GoogleMap Me

07-24-2006, 07:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	JinnKai, I'm usually not actively anti-culture, but apparently with regards to advertising I have a subconscious button that gets pushed. Things like that drive me away more than anything. A hot half-nekkid chick on a CD cover? Great! I'm not paying $15 for a picture. If the disc is sweet, then I'll pick it up.. otherwise fuggit! I've never had a crush on the polar bears, or Santa... but I buy Coke becuase I like the taste better than other colas. I tend to prefer Dove chocolate, though Nestle and Hershey do just as much advertising. Why? Because I think the flavor is better. Why wouldn't people buy something they WANTED or liked more rather than something that they saw and purchased for the hell of it. No wonder impulse buying is at an all time high. I guess I just don't get it. I don't like Burger King at all... even for fast food I think it's greasy and tasteless. I'd almost NEVER go to one to begin with, but putting that freaky, pansy-ass king in some retarded commercials, and you've just about permanently lost me as a customer. Am I really the only one that feels this way? Scott, I agree with you to an extent, but what's so wrong with plots that include advertising? I like to listen to radio morning shows. About 5-6 years ago, it became MUCH more popular for the DJs to read an ad then go to a commercial. I'm a fan of this. Taking 5 seconds out to read an ad, that may be funny (since I usually like morning shows with personalities that entertain me) rather than breaking to a 30 second commercial that probably WON'T be funny. If I'm watching ER, and the vending machine guy is filling the Coke Machine with tasty red cans... who cares? That's a 3-second scene that's MUCH more powerful than a commercial I probably didn't watch so I could use the john or grab some doritos. Last edited by xepherys; 07-24-2006 at 07:53 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

07-24-2006, 08:01 AM	#5 (permalink)
pornclerk Insane Location: Ontario, Canada	You stated that you know that McDonalds is there and if you feel like eating it you will and you don't need to see an advertisment. Well, it looks like McDonalds has you right where they want you. The point of advertising is so that businesses can make people familiar with their products. When making choices, believe it or not, we have a tendency to chose the things we are most familiar with. Big companies like McDonalds, Pepsi, Coca Cola, and so on, want every person to see their products as something familiar. If we see it all the time on commercials and bill boards then we are more likely to make that choice when purchasing that product. Advertising has more of an effect on people than you might think. __________________ Who wants a twig when you can have the whole tree?

07-24-2006, 07:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	actually it's been proven by both Coca Cola and Pepsi that they have increased sales when advertising, otherwise people would drink water. It's also why they got into the water business, because they figured out they wanted to be whatever you were drinking and make some coin on that. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-24-2006, 08:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	Their commercials don't make me familiar... the giant golden arches that I see every three blocks makes me familiar with them. Also, they don't need to advertise the Big Mac. Does anyone here not KNOW what a Big Mac is? I'm sure most of us have had at least one in our lives, but I bet even the staunchest vegan has SEEN one. And, again, I disagree. I like small, Indie Rock stations, because it's not the same canned crap all the time. I like trying new restaurants and new types of food, because you never know what you might be missing. I like things that aren't mass produced copies of the exact same thing over and over again. But, I guess I'm alone... If I never saw a McD's commercial again, I'd still crave their chicken nuggets now and then. Why? Not because of TV, but because I've eaten them now and then, from the time I could eat a nugget. Hell, I didn't even WATCH TV back then... I just liked the damned food.

07-25-2006, 09:12 AM	#13 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	Another example of this is Starbucks. Starbucks has exactly $0 budgeted for advertising. If you've ever seen an ad, it's not put out by Sbux themselves. The bottline companies have put out ads for thebottled frapuccinos, but Starbucks themselves DO NOT ADVERTISE. Yet they are by and large the most well known and most money making coffee shop in the world. Crazy, huh? Are you familiar with them? It's NOT because of TV ads...

07-25-2006, 09:24 AM	#15 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	The rat? You mean the Sponge Monkeys? See, I still don't get it though. I don't like Quizno's, though I do like their commercials. I prefer Subway or Blimpie's. Of course, we've all seen the annoying Subway commercials with the formally-fat dude, but I'm never seen a Blimpie's commercial, yet I like them just as much. In fact, when eating out, I prefer to go to a thai restaurant. Never seen a commercial for one. How does advertising really effect this? What about bread/toast? I haven't seen even a Wonder Bread commercial in ages. I usually get the local bakery brand because they are heartier. Soup? again, usually the stuff made at the store (Whole Foods, mostly) if I don't make it myself. In fact, I can't think of the last thing I bought that DID have an ad for it. Let's see... I bought some QT pop last night. Yes, there are QT radio commercials now and then, but I like the variety and the flavor of their fountains far exceeds that of my local Circle K (mmm, filtered water FTW). I bought some strange chip things because they looked good... no ad in sight. I bought gas where it was cheapest, I bought groceries that were on sale (didn't look at the weekly ad, but rather the price tags in the aisles, which is, arguably, a form of advertising, but I think counterpoint to this discussion). I went to the local oriental market to buy some foods for Stir Fry and Tom Kha Gai that they don't stock at Whole Foods or Safeway. The latter of which I usually shop at due to their proximity rather than advertising. In fact, the highest ad rate for grocers locally is Albertson's (which I've NEVER been to) or Fry's, which I go to if I'm passing one and need to pick something up. Yes, sometimes I crazy McDonald's... how does this have to do with advertising? I don't buy because of the TV. I buy because I'm hungry, have little time and see the golden arches down the block. You know what? If it was some OTHER place right there, that's probably where I'd go. It seems to me that you can make an argument for successful advertising for ANYTHING, just because it's been bought. I bought my baby a Fisher-Price toy... must be because Fisher-Price advertises (though mostly in magazines I don't read). No, not really... Does anyone have a more definitive concept for advertising working? Not statistics (which like anyhow). Something logical and real?

07-25-2006, 09:25 AM	#16 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Ya know it's funny, anyone who claims they hate a place, yet can quote their advertisements.. I guess it worked then didn't it? Advertisements are not about making money. Ok so there is some process of it that the company hopes that by advertising they will make some money in the future. Advertisement, as said earlier, is mostly about being familiar in people's minds. The more familiar you are with a company, the more you'll talk about it and there's an increased chance of someone buying the service because you just gave them free advert. Sooner or later, the companies know that if they bombard ads across the nation at $.01 per viewer and there are 100 million of you watching CSI, then at least a small percentage of those people will patronize their establishment. Why? Did it make you crave something? Nope, it's just that the next time you wanted something you were <i>familiar</i> with that name and bought their product. Pretty simple really.

07-25-2006, 09:33 AM	#18 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	I dunno xepherys, I love commericals. I find alot of them quite brilliant actually. The way a video is laid out with a perfect backtrack, or the subtle hints inside the video really make them a work of art sometimes.

07-25-2006, 09:53 AM	#21 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes commercials, gucci. I wanted to say it but was afraid I'd get yelled at. My girlfriend, my father.. just about everyone I know hates commercials and gets angry if I don't immediately hit the mute button. They say their problem is that commercials are "insulting" and "make them feel stupid" but I've never felt that, no matter how inane the commercial. I'm not sure what causes the difference. At any rate, commercials ARE effective, especially if you can remember them at all. And as I attested to above, I bought things directly because of their advertisement. Despite your protestations that they don't affect you xepherys, they clearly work or companies wouldnt spend millions upon millions of dollars to produce and display them. If you earnestly believe that they don't effect you, then you're an exception to the rule, not the rule itself. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

07-25-2006, 10:21 AM	#22 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	I like GOOD commercials, but sadly there aren't many clever, fresh commercials these days. I love Super Bowl commercials because they're USUALLY pretty good. But otherwise, most commercials are bland, and since the same commercial often gets played 2 or 3 times an hour, it gets old (just like listening to Clear Channel radio stations... a good song played 12 times a day gets annoying quickly).

07-25-2006, 10:35 AM	#23 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	Those geico commercials are hysterical, though... __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

07-25-2006, 04:59 PM	#24 (permalink)
caver Tilted Location: Texas, Lbk	I actively pay attention to commercials sometimes. I enjoy a lot of them, some, not so much. There is one playing lately for ford, featuring the old one, from American Idol. (Don't know his name, don't care) Cant stand the singing "style" the jingle, or the presentation/choreography. Where is Simon Cowell when we need him. hmmm drifting OT Of those products I need, I try to first select the product which most closely matches my need. All things being equal, I will buy a product with a particularly amusing/interesting marketing approach sometimes. There are advertisers whose marketing I enjoy,(geico) or advertising, or which actually (almost) makes me forget I dislike a place. These are places with great marketing, which I would prefer never to buy from.