warrrreagl

What's the deal with baby strollers these days? My wife was in the dressing room of a chain clothing store outlet this past weekend when I was nearly run down and maimed while waiting for her in the next aisle. It was a damn baby stroller, but there was no baby in it. This lady had the damn thing packed to the top with shopping bags and watching her manuever it through the tight aisles in the overcrowded store was pretty funny until she came my way.

Like I said, it was packed like the Grinch's sleigh without a baby anywhere in sight. Yet, when I didn't yield the entire aisle to her, she gave me one of those Armed Parent Militia coldcock stares that said, "Can't you see I'm a fucking parent with a fucking BABY STROLLER??!!?? Move it, lardass!" I noticed that other customers moved very quickly out of her way when they glimpsed the baby stroller, so I think I smell a rat.

Again, no baby (unless she'd just bought it at PacSun).

Is this common where you live? Baby stroller shopping with no baby? It's getting to be so much of a nuisance in the South that I've actually seen one store in Gatlinburg place a sign out front that said, "No baby strollers, please."

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Rodney

Plenty of strollers, but all with kids in them. But there are a lot of people around here with money to burn, so you get a lot of these carriages on steroids with four double wheels and cupholders and pounches and equipment racks, and the damn things look like "Baby's First Hummer" or something. They're mainly a problem in restaurants, where they block the aisles.

Frankly, if somebody tried the empty stroller bit around here, they'd get attitude back from some people. This is a college town with a lot of well-educated middle-aged people who stayed childless by choice, and playing the mommy card only takes you so far.

krwlz

I havent seen it happen to often, yet once or twice I've witnessed it. I felt disgusted every time. And I hate those parent militia stares.

I get them when I go on vacation on the beach... I'm just taking a walk, happen to see some little kids playing and being little kids, I smile and laugh while walking by, and then think Im a pedophile...

Sorry to threadjack btw.

guthmund

And god help you if you actually engage them in conversation...

I see quite a few baby humvees around town, but they almost always have kids in them. Of course, I can't really be sure as sometimes I can't always see the kids underneath the 84 different diaper bags filled with everything under the sun hanging from the handles.

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analog

I get that death stare fairly frequently, possibly because i'm not one of those people who jump out of the way of every baby factory who happens along my path, nor do i put up with their "setting up camp" bullshit. You know, when they're somewhere shopping and they plop their cart down in the middle of an aisle while they wander up and down looking for things. That, and there's often at least a kid or two on/around the cart, running around like spastic monkeys. If someone's in the way, I ask nicely (though pointlessly) if I can get by. I usually get answers like, "you can go around" meaning the whole aisle, or "can't you see i'm busy?" Seriously. No, I can't, I'm sorry, all I can see is an inconsiderate bitch with a superiority complex.

I'm not getting out of your way because you gave birth. Get in line with everyone else, breeder. There's a pretty high number of breeders (high number of yuppies, go figure) around here. I was in a Super Target on Saturday and I muttered to a friend who was with me, "I have never seen so many knocked up women in one place at one time" because literally, I counted 9 just in the 2 or 3 aisles we were in at the time. I said it in front of these two women- both pregnant- who were doing the thing where they met on the aisle facing opposite directions and just stopped to talk. After asking if we could pass through (because they blocked the aisle completely), and getting a dirty look and "give us a minute, HUH?" I was throwing down the gauntlet. One had a shopping cart, the other had a stroller that looked like an ATV or something. It was huge. Ridiculous behavior.

warrrreagl

Yep, I get this one, too. Whenever my wife and I walk down the beach and we encounter a family with kids, I make it a point to stare off into the sky or at some imaginary something off into the water, because the adults are always suspiciously watching my eyes just daring me to look a little too long at their kids.

It's kind of sad, too, because I spent 12 years as a classroom elementary teacher and it's natural for me to look at kids. Now, I just don't. I can't unless their parents walk them up to me and introduce them or something like that.

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Average_Joe

Actually, my wife & I have been guilty of this, but not in such an extreme manner. Sometimes we will put our new merchandise in the stroller, but we carry the kids (or let them walk if they can). However, we are always courteous to our fellow shoppers and try not to block aisles, and we will move if politely asked.

filtherton

I've used the stroller for a shopping cart before because it seems really stupid to me to have to push both a stroller and a shopping cart. Also, sometimes babies get fussy and need to be picked up out of the stroller and carried around and then sometimes the baby's spot gets filled in the stroller because the baby most likely won't go back in the stroller for a while without flipping out.


A question for analog: Did a breeder kill your dog or something? I mean, i can understand having a bad experience with a couple gung-ho parents, but you're like a peta member talking about ted nugent when it comes to people with children.

Ample

Back when my kids were younger I used the stroller as a shopping cart. The canopy of the stroller holds shirts and pants perfectly. How else are you going to do it? Carry the clothes when there is a easy place to put them? I have never seen anyone though just push a stroller with no kids and use it as a cart. That would just look plain idiotic.

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The_Jazz

As a parent, I'm usually the one who grabs our son up and whisks him off to somewhere that he won't bother you non-breeders. That leaves his mother with the stroller AND a shopping cart, so she usually ditches the cart and fills up the stroller since experience has told us that if he's fussy enough to be taken out of the stroller, he's going to be too fussy to go back in.

Next time, I'll keep an eye out for you and make sure that he screams his head off while we're standing next to you. I've learned to tune him out when need be, and he's got a good enough voice to carry for aisles and aisles....

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xepherys

I'm going to pitch in a vote in the middle ground. Warrrreagl has a paranoia about children and parents, I've noticed. And yes, there are parents that seem to think they're extra important to everyone because they have kids. However, neither side seems to see us in the middle ground.

We have a "baby hummer", though I consider it a reasonable stroller. Yes, it's got four double-wheels... and they don't fall off or break when you go up a curb. It's got cup holders. You know why? It's fucking hard to push a baby stroller, full of baby, AND hold my mocha. What's wrong with that? Yes, we put out shopping bags in it... mostly in the basket underneath the seat. That's what it's there for. I agree, it's not a shopping cart, but having the baby AND Old Navy bag in the cart, again, makes it much easier to push, especially by one's self.

Okay, part two...

Yes, YOU can go the fuck around. If it's a small clothing aisle, and you have to walk two feet the other way, I'm not all that worried. At the same time, I'm not going to run you down, and I won't ask you to move when I can go the same two feet the other way. Seems fair, right?

Next, there is no "armed parent militia"... those that you speak of are just assholes. They'd still be assholes even if they didn't have a baby, stroller, et cetera. Hell, *I'M* an asshole, and I think those people are assholes. That should say something.

Getting out of the way of a mother with a stroller (at least one filled with baby, not bags) is just polite. It's the same reason you get out of an old person's way or open the door for a woman or anything of that nature. Courtesy, even in the face of those horrible monsters called "mom". Man, where is all of this anti-parent, anti-child hostility coming from here at the TFP? Oh, that's right, it's coming from Warrrreagl...

warrrreagl

Please see above. I was an elementary schoolteacher for 12 years, so there goes the whole anti-child theory. To paraphrase Cynthetique, I have "anti-asshole" hostilities, and I take a particular interest in parents because I've dealt professionally with them for so long. I don't accept that kids can't be raised properly anymore.

Last night, at the ill-fated Mexican restaurant mentioned in another post, Grancey and I were visited at our table by a father and his two little daughters. One had just turned 4 and the other was 6. The father is a friend of ours who was out celebrating his new American citizenship with his family. During the meal, we watched the kids thoroughly enjoy themselves without throwing food, screaming, running around, etc. The parents enjoyed adult conversations with the other adults at their table yet maintained a constant watch on their children throughout the meal and corrected any questionable behavior on the spot. They didn't need to threaten, bluff, bully, or bribe the kids into behaving. The kids knew that responsibility was the only thing that would be tolerated. After we'd eaten, the father brought the girls over to our table and they each extended their hands to shake ours, they said things like, "pleased to meet you," and "thank you," and we each hugged each of them and talked about their ice cream, their missing front teeth, their boyfriends, their pets, etc., and we all had a great time.

Yes, I guess I am the paranoid wacko who still believes that children can be well-behaved, well-mannered, AND happy at the same time.

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TotalMILF

It kind of frightens me that someone who dislikes children just because they misbehave was, at one time, an elementary schoolteacher. I sure wouldn't want you teaching my children if you can't handle them if, and when, they chose to act out. And ALL children will eventually misbehave to some degree, even those normally polite children whose parents have taught them manners. That's what kids do. They're just testing your boundries.

I do, however, have to agree with you about the stroller thing. Parents who use strollers as shopping carts and bowl you over if you get in their way REALLY piss me off, especially if they don't even have a kid in the damn stroller. I completely understand your hostility towards those who think that, just because they have a stroller, they own the aisle. I can't STAND that.

What you have to remember, however, is that for every inconsiderate parent there are dozens more of us who are considerate of other people, and who teach our children to be the same way. Yes, Xepherys and I have the baby humvee, complete with thermometer and clock, simply because it's so much easier than carrying the baby AND a diaper bag AND our coffee AND whatever else we might have with us at the time. I do my best to stay out of other people's way, but sometimes it's really hard. Wouldn't you agree that it's much easier for you to take an extra 2 steps out of our way than it is for us to maneuver a stroller full of baby and latte and diaper bag and shopping bags around you? It's common courtesy.

I'm sorry that a handful of parents taking advantage of their strollers have made you think that all parents are that way, which absolutely isn't true. I'm also sorry that you only seem to notice the parents and children who are rude. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, I guess. I'm just somewhat annoyed that you feel the need to start a new thread every time a parent or child pisses you off. We get it - you don't like rude parents and children. Great. Get over it and move on.

Bill O'Rights

But, if politics has taught us nothing, it has taught us that you have to be one or the other. There can be no middle ground.

Oh....and we have a "baby hummer" as well. Beats the hell out of an "umbrella" stroller. And...it's a damn sight smaller than my old prambulator carriage. (Think the carriage in Rosemary's Baby) That thing was freakin' huge.

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Demeter

Once, in a store I worked at, a woman filled her stroller up with goods (in the part under the baby seat) covered it with a blanket, and tried to leave the store without paying. I ended up being the one that sat with her in the office until the police came.
Her toddler was crying, she was crying. I couldn't believe she'd put her kid through that. She had stolen useless crap like hairbrushes and makeup. I could see if it had been formula & diapers, I'd understand some needing that & not having the money.
Who would take their kid out for a day of shoplifting?
I view strollers in stores suspiciously now...

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warrrreagl

And it frightens me that TFP is in danger of devolving into squeaky cleanliness and knee-jerk reaction/censorship for opposing viewpoints. Those of us here awhile know each others' foibles, fears, phobias, etc., and we've learned to laugh at them and each other. That's what we do here at TFP - we rant. We express dislikes. We express life experiences. We express hopes and fears. And we laugh at each other. And I will absolutely continue to do so, because that's what I do here, too.

Although my hopes and fears are not exactly the same as anyone else's here, they are shared by many others. For those who do not have the same hopes and fears as the rest of us, we've learned how to respond humorously and respectfully to each other without resorting to name-calling and labeling. There is a much more intelligent way of sharing ideas and disagreements and the TFP is known and perhaps feared for that. Those who have not been here quite so long would do well to observe for awhile without giving in to the temptation to overreact.

Since this thread has been hijacked away from the original topic to become a personal attack, then let's discuss my personality. How many viewers of this thread who are posting their certainty of my paranoia also know what type of music I like? What instrument(s) I play? What my current job is? How long I've been in that profession? Pets? Hobbies? Children? Housing situation? Sense of humor? These are all things that have been discussed openly on TFP for the past 4-5 years, and it's been over three years since the latest crash. No one here who knows me (and that has bothered to read more than two of my threads) would ever accuse me of hating parents and children, and no one prior to this summer ever has. In order to maintain the historical brilliance of TFP, I would like to see personal comments and judgments reserved to those who actually KNOW someone's personality.

I shudder to think about the reactions of some newer members to some of the long-past threads we've had around here that discussed some fairly controversial topics in some satirical yet hilarious ways. For their own safety's sake, I hope those threads stay buried, because I see more and more members who would stroke out at the irreverant decisions we've hammered out around here over the years.

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maleficent

back when i worked in retail - we had at least one person arrested per week who used a stroller/baby carriage to carryout shoplifting... during the holiday season is was more like one per day...

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krwlz

Yes, kids misbehave. I was one not to long ago. But you know what? I NEVER acted out in public. I was polite and courteous to all adults, I kept my temper under wraps, and I never threw tantrums.

That's not to say I didn't do those things when at home, but even there... It was not tolerated. Bad behavior is just that... Bad. It should never be tolerated. The day it's tolerated is the day the kid has just moved your boundary.

And I had a happy, wonderful childhood... Even with semi-strict parents (as far as behaviour goes). Imagine that.

And sorry about the threadjack warrrreagl, I think I may have started that.

To address the courtesy of moving out of the way of a pregnant woman.

I dont think analog is saying "I'm walking here bitch, get the fuck out of the way" he is asking you not to take up the whole damn aisle. Many a woman out there will park her stroller right square in the middle... Just pull it off to the side, you don't park your car centered on the double yellow lines do you?
If you're going to stop and talk to someone, move to the side, dont stand right in the center.

I don't know for sure, but I'll bet analog would hold doors open for pregnant woman. He's just asking for respect to be returned... It is after all a two way street. No one gets special treatment just because they think they deserve it. Which I think, was his real issue.
(Analog... If I've misjudged your character, feel free to point it out)

BigTruck1956

yup, yup, and yup.

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xepherys

warrrreagl, I've been here almost as long as you and contributed almost as much. I have threads created in and posts in just about every forum on the TFP. I get that part, but my views of your posts are that they have a hostile undertone. That's fine. I'm not acting ridiculous and calling for your head, but if you can dish out the heat, why can't you take it with the same requirements you've offered us? Instead of making a of it or making light of it, you get defensive... why is that? I don't disagree with you, completely, I just don't care for the tone you present things. That doesn't need to mean anything to you, and I have a right to express my beliefs just like you do... what's wrong with that?

krwlz, I think you got two issues combined. Analog mentions two pregnant women, but the big issue seems to be women (or men) with strollers. If I'm in the grocery store, just me, I'm constantly having to manuever around people who can't properly drive a grocery basket. I think a baby stroller should rank higher on the right of way list than a shopping cart. But back to the initial point, when shopping at the mall, how many stores have two person wide aisles? Most don't, and if they do, it's just a central aisle or ring aisle, as anything more takes up precious retail space. If I'm watching the baby and need to go shopping, me pushing a stroller between racks is not really any different than me WALKING between racks, one of us will have to get out of the way anyway. If I have a stroller, it's a LOT easier for you to move than me.

As for the overall view of the TFP, well, a lot of us have been here for a few years. Over the course of a few years, people can change, mature, grow (or immature, I suppose as well). People have kids, have kids move out, someone who was one guys buddy on the "forever bachelors" train two years ago could be happily married today. What does that mean for a community like this? It means that the tone people have about things will change. It doesn't HAVE to effect you. Feel free to post what you will, and some people will agree with you, and some people won't. It's been my experience that this is how the TFP has always worked, and always will. It's a community of people who want to share and contribute... that doesn't mean everyone is on the same page. Nothing said here (or in the other thread) have been warning worthy or ban worthy... there really hasn't been name-calling or bashing, just disagreeing. Why is that so wrong?

krwlz

I don't disagree in the least. But I've seen both people who make the best effort to stay out of peoples way (ie as far over as you can), and then yea, I don't have a problem walking around.

But then I've seen people who park right in the middle. When the aisles are that narrow, its imperitive that they stay to one side, that at least gives some room, where as right in the middle leaves not enough room on either side.

Kinda see where I'm going with that?

Swirlie

errr... why?

I never quite understood that... we all value children and what they mean to this world, but I don't believe that having children makes ones life any more important that someone who doesn't have children.

Why is my time less important than someone who has children? Why am I expected to move out of the way? Yeah - it's probably easier, and typically, I will make the effort to move - but don't EXPECT me to do so.

To the topic at hand... I agree with a number of posters who say that dragging a stroller AND a shopping cart is too tough... but unless there is a baby strapped to the stroller or mother... get a cart. To the father who takes the baby when it is fussing, but leaves the mother with the cart... good on ya... but why? Why not take the stroller as well, and let mom shop with a cart?

And I won't even start on unsupervised kids in shopping malls, restaraunts, and other public places. You have 'em, YOU deal with them.

filtherton

Have you ever tried to hold a squirmy fussy baby and push a stroller at the same time?

spindles

You have never been shopping with a toddler or baby have you? I don't expect right of way when I shop, but I sure as hell don't want to be there long. Little children have a *very* short attention span, and to make everyone else in the shop's life better, so the shorter the shopping expedition, the better really.

I think, in the end, it comes down to courtesy, whether pushing the stroller or not. No one has a god given right to go first, so why not be a little courteous to those of us trying to get out of the shop quickly?


edit: to the op - there are times we have both been out shopping and the child and stroller have gone separate ways. It is actually an evil plot we parents have initiated to annoy Analog

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doodlebird

nope.
never seen the stroller as shopping cart.
that's moronic.
the store has carts.
use them.
i'm with you on this.

BUT
big ass strollers are HARD TO MANEUVER.
big ass shopping carts are HARD TO MANEUVER
(and since we're here to laugh at each other...)
big ass people are HARD TO MANEUVER.

you do seem to have a bit of chip on your shoulder
in yielding to anything child related.
in my part of the south,
we yield to ladies, regardless of whether they have kids or not.
i'm sure you mean to do the same...
whether she's a bitch or not.

on a related note,
i took my son to target this afternoon
and the carts with the kids seats on the back are HUGE
and f-in HARD TO MANEUVER.
i had to apologize to folks as i tried (unsuccessfully) to get around them.
i ran into a guard rail getting out of a lady's way.
we both laughed.
a smile will get you farther than a scowl.
you know that.

for fun, i suggest that you play a game of chicken
with the next cart or stroller that gets in your way.
please let us know how that turns out.

and if you see the childless cart again,
you should start complimenting her beautiful child.
"awww, your baby is so cute"
"she looks just like you"
kill 'em with kindness.
or sarcasm.
you choose.

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xoxo
doodle

xepherys

doodlebird, you're my hero! I agree with you AND you are right! The last bit is priceless...

The_Jazz

I guess this is directed at me since I'm the one who posted it... When the kid goes nuts, it's usually because he's fed up with being in the stroller or wants to be held or needs to be changed, etc. For anything short of being hungry, I'll usually handle (unless we're buying produce, in which case my wife couldn't pick out a ripe piece of fruit to save her life). That means picking him up and getting him some place where he'll disturb the minimum amount of people possible and trying to sooth him. Carrying a screaming baby, trying to sooth him while walking AND pushing a stroller is virtually impossible (for me at least), so the stroller usually stays with mom. The choices for her are to take all the stuff out of the stroller, collapse it and find a place for the stuff and the stroller in the cart where it won't be mixed up with what we're buying or just load everything into the stroller. Which is easier? That's why we'll continue to shop as a team for at least the next few months until he's old enough to sit up in the cart and be belted in. Right now he's just too small.

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"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

warrrreagl

Bah, think nothing of it. I asked for it. I fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous are never get involved in a land war in Asia and never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! But only slightly less well-known is this: never poke fun at kids and and parenting skills in front of parents. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha... *plop*

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Lady Sage

Now I am going to have to go watch The Princess Bride..... thanks!

The stroller thing is quite annoying but much less annoying than the people who pile things ON their children while they are in said stroller. Years and years ago (I will never forget this) I was in a store and saw a small infant (2 months old tops) with a pile of... stuff... on them. Included in this...stuff... was a large hammer resting on the childs chest and abdomen. The child was crying as much as it could with the weight on its poor little body and the dejected mother just kept piling things on the child to the point I was sure she was going to smother it...

Some people shouldnt breed I tell ya! (Thats all I have to say about that)

splck

Nothing like an anti-kid (breeder ) thread in the morning. I just love how non-parents think they would be the perfect parents

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Bill O'Rights

So...

We have established that;
A.) Store ailses are too narrow due to excesive merchandise.
B.) Baby strollers can be large and cumbersome.
C.) Standard shopping carts can be large and cumbersome.
D.) Some people's asses can be large and cumbersome.
E.) Some people can be self important asswipes.

Can we therefore conclude that some people will be large assed inconsiderate ass wippes, blocking store ailes, regardless of whether they are pushing a shopping cart or a baby stoller?

I think so.

__________________
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It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

warrrreagl

I'm calling my big sister right now.............

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Bill O'Rights

Cool! Tell her Bill says Hi.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Carno

Hell, I can be an inconsiderate asswipe without needing either of those things!

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xepherys

haha, ditto...

Pip

Slightly back to the topic: There was a mother with a boy about 4 years old in one of those sitting strollers thingies (umbrella strollers?) and she had hung lots of heavy bags on the handles - she had obviously been doing a lot of shopping that day - and the boy grew restless and curious and stood up from the stroller, so it tipped back. And the mother starts yelling at the boy for leaving the stroller when she had told him he must stay in it... I helped her set it up straight again to diffuse her tirade, but I feel sorry for the boy. He must have been pushed around in store after store, acting as a counterweight, instead of being allowed to walk around on his own two legs. He's going to grow up into another overweight kid.
It's a sad trend here with stressed parents pushing their kids around in strollers when they're really old enough to walk on their own, just because it's faster.

spindles

This is not necessarily a speed issue. When they are strapped in a stroller it is pretty hard to lose them...

Grocery shopping - I'd rarely take the stroller unless I'm only getting a few things - easier to strap the child in a trolley.

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raeanna74

It's not breeders, or parents, it's people. Some people are jerks. They come in all shapes sizes, races, and all too often they come as parents. You'll never notice the parent who is taking their kid for a walk through the mall while his wife finishes her shopping because he's keeping the kid quiet. You'll never notice the parent who's shopping with one well behaved kid because the kid isn't being annoying.
The people with kids who bother me the most are the ones who are quite common in our area. They're the Hmong, with food stamp cards, and 4 or 5 kids jabbering away in another language and whining cause they want more junk food. They're sitting there trying their best to ignore the kids and pretending that it's someone else's kid crying and they're the best parent in the world. Then when they do get to the checkout they ask the cashier why something was rung up for more than they saw on the ticket because they couldn't read the stupid sign that said they needed their store card. Then they get all pissy cause the cashier can't understand a word they're saying.
But in the end it's that person's problem, not their race, not their breeding habits. They have a lack of courtesy and common sense in their tiny little heads.

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Lady Sage

By all means show me where I said I would be the perfect parent. Personally I do not wish to have children. Two miscarriages are more than enough for me. I do, however, feel that trying to smother your child while shopping for heavy objects is wrong. Pardon me for offending your sensabilities.

Bill O'Rights

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.