warrrreagl

I started a thread a long time ago about my continuing saga vs restaurants and restaurant patrons, but I can't find it anywhere. Maybe it was v.1 or v.2 and my mind is slipping. So here's the sequel.

Tonight, Grancey and I were eating at our favorite local Mexican place. The food isn't spectacular but it's consistent and VERY clean, which is a huge plus in our book. Normally, when the hostess asks "Smoking or non?" Grancey has to elbow me because she knows I'm about to say, "The non-toddler section, please." We just hate going out to dinner and having to sit next to babies and toddlers. We know they have to eat somewhere, but I'd just rather it be somewhere that we don't have to look at them or listen to them.

So tonight, Karma has sandwiched us amongst a pocket of toddler-full tables and we're surrounded. I'm trying to stare directly down at my plate the whole time I'm eating because I know if I look up I'll see some kid staring at me with a mixture of boogers and cheese hanging off his chin. I just can't look. All of a sudden, coming from the table next to me, I hear the father of two toddlers say to the waiter, "Yeah, just 30 seconds is all it takes. 30 seconds. Thanks."

I look up and I see the waiter headed off to the kitchen with a baby formula bottle in his hand!!! WTF??!! This guy's disease-ridden child's baby bottle is about to go into the microwave where my food is prepared? Sure enough, about a minute later the waiter reappears and hands the guy back his baby's bottle.

For those of you in the restaurant-know, is this common? Am I out of line to be put off by this? I am prohibited by Grancey from speaking out to the father or the restaurant in any fashion, but she said I could ask all of you about it.

What do you think?

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

maleficent

OK, so the waiter took the bottle back to the kitchen, spat it in, and let it sit under the big, hairy, tattooed, dishwasher's underarm for it to heat up... While he was washing crusty enchilada drippings from plates...


Ok - Parents are people to - but come on -- if the kid is still on a bottle. leave it home... children do not need to be brought everywhere the parents go... I'm with you- I prefer the toddler free zone...

__________________

pig

I feel your pain, but I think you're probably ok technically in terms of the actual disease issue. At least, I found some articles indicating that properly microwaved food should have fairly good levels of sterilization. Do you have general food cleanliness phobias, or is just kid-related phobias?

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Psycho Dad

Given a choice between a kid sucking on a bottle or its momma's tit and an obnoxious asshole talking on a cell phone or giving the wait staff hell for something... I'll say feed the kid.

Edit: Oh... I'd bet dollars to donuts that there is some rule about the baby bottle in the microwave.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

maleficent

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=7861

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=64308


Don't ever say I never did anything for ya

__________________

snowy

Not that I know of, and I've passed the food handlers' test in several different locales.

It's not unsanitary at all, especially since it's not being sold to a customer, and I'm sure if the formula did get spilled somewhere inside the microwave it would probably be wiped up with sanitizer. Furthermore, any additional cooking in the microwave that evening will kill any remaining germs. And despite what you might think--regular restaurants do not use their microwaves very often, or at least none of the places I've worked has.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Carno

Wow.

......

Wow.

Overreact much?

__________________
http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

doodlebird

if you don't the public as a whole,
don't hang out with them.

if you don't trust other people to handle your food cleanly,
cook it yourself.

as for the baby bottle,
i'm gonna side with those that said
microwaving kills anything that might be harmful to you...
...except your fear of toddlers.

and having worked in restaurants of varying decor,
you have waaay more to worry about than a bottle.
BUT if it makes you feel better,
most of those places never let us bring our own food in.

Grancey did the right thing by reigning you in in public,
and hats off to you for keeping your cool
in the face of something that obviously caused you great distress.

there are restaurants where toddlers do not go,
but alas, you pay dearly for this exclusivity.

__________________
xoxo
doodle

xepherys

Uhm... *confused*

Even BEFORE I had a baby to feed, I can't understand thinking this way... a baby's bottle going into the microwave sets you off? First of all wtf kind of diseases do you think babies/toddlers have? They're FAR less likely to have anything that you might. I'd be more worried about the people that took a bite of their soup, said it was too cold, and that drop or two of saliva in the soup is now in that very microwave.

Having worked in restaurants an ample amount, I can say it's not UNcommon for this to happen, and I also agree that there are many worse things to worry about in regards to cleanliness than a microwaved bottle.

Why do you fear children so?

Psycho Dad

I didn't mean to imply that there would be any good reason for such a rule, just that I expected that there would be one.

And not all those bottles are formula. Some states require child cares to label breast milk as a bio-hazard. Yes... I agree that is asinine as well.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

warrrreagl

*ducking flying pacifiers*

Gee, where are my peeps? Usually, when I complain about cleanliness and kids in restaurants, I get a lot of "amens" from the congregation. But somebody let the Armed Parent Militia sneak in the door.

Oh, wait, I know where my peeps are. They're all dead from catching bizarre baby diseases at slovenly restaurants.

And as long as this can of worms got opened, I can either eat with wild kids or eat at exclusive/expensive restaurants? That's my only choice? No, there is a third option - the one I was raised under. Teach kids to behave in public. They're not too young to start, you know. Don't think of a restaurant as a Hands-On Discovery Science Museum/Playground. Think of it as a place where people like to eat in peace and civility.

Phobia? I have a "concern" for health and cleaniliness, but I wouldn't call it a paranoid, loony, whacko, irrational phobia. However, I DO have a huge phobia of folks who demand that I hold their baby and expect me to love all babies the way they do. I don't do babies. That's my choice.

And there are many of us out there.......waiting.......holding secret meetings.......terrified of being scolded by pissed-off parents.......

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

Bill O'Rights

On this part, you get a huge Amen. But, then again, you and I were raised in, and by, a different generation. If you can't/won't control your offspring...then resign yourself to eating at McDonald's for the next few years. Conversely...don't go into McDonald's expecting well behaved children. Fair's fair after all. Oh...and I have a toddler, by the way. So, I know when he's going to be "good" enough to endure a sit down restaurant, or whether it's going to be Mac tonight.

Still...as long as there were no disruptions to your meal...what does it really hurt if the restaurant heats up a baby's bottle? Small stuff, in comparison...I think.

How's your sister doin'?

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

sapiens

Your initial post sounds like you have a general hostility toward children regardless of their behavior. I dislike misbehaving children. If my child acts up in a public place, we head to the car for a time out, but you don't even want to have to look at children, you know if you look up you'll see boogers and cheese, disease ridden bottles, etc. ... That may be where the phobia comments come from.

We never go to McDonald's, but if my daughter behaved in a fast food restaurant the way that I see many kids behave, she would be in a time out in the car.

lurkette

I'm with you on the screaming toddler front, but the baby bottle doesn't bother me, either. Particularly if the bottle keeps said toddler from turning into the screaming kind. I don't even mind watching them get all goopy. Frankly there are some adults whose table manners challenge those of a two-year-old. As long as they're not flinging food at me, or shrieking, they're kinda cute.

You wanna piss me off, talk about screaming kids at movies that are CLEARLY inappropriate for them, and parents who don't do anything about it but sit there slack-jawed and watch the movie. I had Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon ruined, RUINED I say, by an idiot couple with a screaming NEWBORN. They just sat there and watched the movie while it screamed. Many people complained to them directly but nobody wanted to get up and miss the movie to complain to management. Get a fucking babysitter! And don't bring your toddler to watch X-Men!!! Or Silence of the Lambs (I kid you not!)! Or Jurassic Park! Not only is it bad for the rest of us when they kick the backs of our seats and start crying during the woud scawy pawts, it's bad for the kid who will now have nightmares about all those dinosaur toys you bought for them. Or serial killers who are going to put their heads in a jar. Sheesh.

Okay, feel better warrrrrreagl?

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

frogza

The other day I went to a restaurant and a coworker happened to be there, sitting on the other side of the place. Once he noticed me he began shouting across the room asking how I was and started asking about a project I've been working on. I was embarassed beyond description. Once I realized that the dirty looks from the other patrons weren't giving him the clue he needed I got up, walked over to him said things at work were going fine but I didn't think the other people in the restaurant wanted to hear about it.

Where do loud misbehaved children come from?
a. swamp slime
b. teletubbies fan clubs
c. monsters in dark closets
d. loud misbehaved parents

Seaver

So please, explain to me what a parent who's taking an interest in the feeding of his child have to do with that?

No where in your rant did you mension the kid being obnoxious. No where did you state the kid thew food at you, or was making excessive noise.

The kid was hungry, his dad took the time to bring his own formula which simply needed to be warmed up. He was looking after his child, a good sign that his kid WILL grow up well mannered.

As for your right to a child-free environment? If you go to McDonalds or a chain like Olive Garden dont expect to not see kids. Your options are expensive restaurants or cooking at home. Either way since you are the picky one you should adapt, not expect every parent out there to.

Ample

When my children were in their bad asses stages, I would not take them to restaurants that often, and when we did it was always went to a "family friendly" joint. I would hate for my little ones to ruin everyone elses dining experience.

As for the bottle thing. That is wrong. Wrong of the waiter to do it, and more wrong of the parent to ask. Trust me it is very easy to bring hot water in the little kid's bag and mix it with cold water to get the right temp for formula.

warrrreagl I think you are justified in feeling the way that you do.

__________________

Her juju beads are so nice
She kissed my third cousin twice
Im the king of pomona

maleficent

[QUOTE=warrrreaglAnd there are many of us out there.......waiting.......holding secret meetings.......terrified of being scolded by pissed-off parents.......[/QUOTE]
You'll never convince a parent that their beloved offspring aren't welcome everywhere that they are... I know, I've tried... unsuccessfully... with my sister and her demon spawn... who have gotten banned from more than one establishment in more than one state...

__________________

guthmund

Last weekend at Superman Returns 'Mom' and 'Dad' sat two seats down from me with an obviously disinterested toddler. To his credit, the kid watched it for a while, but it didn't last. About 20 minutes in, he started screaming, jumping around, fiddling with the aisle's running lights and such. Meanwhile 'Mom' and 'Dad' just sat there staring stupidly up at the screen mumbling the occasional 'Daddy said no.' I had to slap the seat next to 'Dad' to get his attention and ask him if I was going to have to get someone before they got him under control.

I understand that kids are going to act like kids because they're....kids. There's a big difference between 'kids will be kids' and 'screaming hellions running amok.'

As for the OP, well, I've seen a lot worse. Thank the restaurant gods that he just wanted a bottle warmed up and wasn't changing a diaper, changing the kid's clothes or wiping dog shit off his kid's shoe with the cloth napkin. (Been there, seen that.)

__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.

warrrreagl

BTW, when the heated bottle came back from the kitchen, the mother slid it down into the diaper bag, paid the bill, gathered up the two kids, and the whole family strolled out. The newly heated bottle was never seen again. Since I am so clearly anti-human offspring, I don't know what THAT signifies. Maybe it was a secret signal to all the other Armed Parent Militia members to lock and load.

And as for making the lightspeed jump from baby bottle to toddler behavior in my discussion, somebody else brought that up, not me. But since they did, I should add that the toddler at the table in question spent the meal practicing for the Tortilla Discus Championship. I had no idea a 2-year old could get that much torque on a simple tortilla wrist-flick. And he had plenty of practice throughout the meal.

Plus, is it just me, or is anybody else creeped out when you look up from your plate and see the toddler in the adjacent booth hanging over the back of your seat staring (just......staring) at you with food and shit hanging off his face? And this always goes on for 15-20 minutes at least. Grancey always makes nasty faces at them to make them cry and turn around.


*sniff sniff* And thanks, lurkette. Yes I do.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

maleficent

i was on a flight last year, where this idiot mother, changed her kids nasty diaper and dropped it on the beverage cart for the flight attendent to toss out - I swear by all that is holy, the flight attendent was going to evict this woman at 35000 feet.

it was bad enough she changed the diaper while the kid (who was old enough to be potty trained) was standing on the seat (didn't even go to the rest room( she didn't even put the dirty stinky diaper into the air sick bag..

__________________

sapiens

Whether or not they have food on their faces, it's rude. The parents should not allow their child to do that in a restaurant.

Average_Joe

Not to thread jack or anything, but every baby book I have read says NEVER heat up a baby bottle in the microwave. Apparently the contents of the bottle don't heat up evenly, and if the bottle is improperly shaken, the baby could be seriously burned.

I did this once due to being lazy, and my wife ripped me a new one.

Just my little public service announcement.

Frosstbyte

If I were one of those flight attendants, I definitely would've evicted her without a thought. I cannot imagine the thought process (or lack thereof) required to decide to change a baby sitting at your seat and then just drop the diaper on the cart. What a horrible thought.

At my office the other day one of my bosses was talking about how one of her kids was screaming on an airplane one time and some woman kept turning around whenever the kid would scream and give my boss a dirty look. My boss eventually said, "What do you want me to do? If I could stop the screaming I would" and the woman stopped. My boss seemed very offended that someone would hold her responsible for having a screaming kid on the plane. I, needless to say, kept my mouth shut.

Screaming kids are some of the most annoying things on the planet (for a good reason, from an evolutionary standpoint). I don't envy parents who have them and are trying to deal with them, but man are they a pain in the ass, particularly when you have parents like those in the examples given in this thread who clearly missed the memo about having respect for people around them.

Carno

Um, you clearly are.

First you post about the waiter heating up a bottle, then when some people disagree with you, you change tack and start ranting about misbehaving kids.

I am only 21 years old, and I thought I hated kids, but man, you have serious issues.

Why, exactly, is it "wrong"?

By what code do you base your judgments on?

__________________
http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

sapiens

I imagine that it his hard to to calm a child once they start screaming on a plane. My daughter has been on 10+ flights and she's 3yo. She has never screamed on a flight. She has been cranky, but manageable. My wife and I prepare for flights with our daughter by packing snacks, juice, new coloring books, small quiet toys, a small dvd player, small games, etc. It seems to help.
I imagine that there are many good parents and well behaved children that have respect for people around them. We tend to notice the annoying ones. They stand out.

xepherys

Ah, so we do have some common ground. I agree that children should behave when out in public. I agree that parents are resposible for teaching their children manners. That doesn't necessarily preclude bottle in microwaves and snot/cheese covered chins.

I partly agree with you. We've taken our baby (7 months old) to see three movies now, Pirates of the Carribean II, and two others I can't recall off the top of my head. If he even starts to talk (gabber) during the movie, my wife takes him to the door aisle and walks him around and he's quiet. If he FUSSED, he'd go to the lobby with one of us. For the most part he loves the movies. We haven't had any inconsiderate issues arise the three times we've gone. As for content, that's debatable. I was raised by a mother addicted to horror flicks and saw many at an age "younger" than one would consider politically correct these days. It didn't scar me though (or scare me), if anything, it made me LESS scared than your typical little kid. *shrug*

I'm also not sure why people assume that expensive restaurants are child-free. Surely they're less tolerant of poorly behaved children, but I don't think many have a strict no kid policy. Where do you think rich people take their families to eat? Olive Garden of McD's? I don't think so...

Why is this? Can you find me a single state or local health code that this violates? Can you give me any actual data or logical reason behind this being "wrong"? It's not unsanitary, first of all. Bottles are usually used once, then washed then used then washed. Even if the bottle HAD been unwashed since the last feeding, the slobber is generally on the nipple, which doesn't TOUCH the microwave, and the microwave is going to kill most germs. Also, as I noted before, there are for more disgusting things at even most GOOD restaurants than a bottle in a microwave... things that you actually SHOULD be worried about. *boggle*

Please note that this describes a deficiency with the adult, not the child...

Again, adult deficiency, not child. How's the kid supposed to know better if the mom is a dumbass?

This is true, but more of a CYA than a real issue. Becuase of the fats in the milk, it CAN heat up unevenly, but by the time it leaves the microwave and gets to the kid (unless the kid is IN the microwave with the bottle), it's going to redistribute. You shouldn't put it in for more than 15s or so regardless. *shrug*

Seaver

Actually what'll happen is the water can get superheated (above boiling point) if it does not have a defect in the bottle in which to form the bubbles around. If this happens any form of pressure or any agitation can cause explosive boiling in which one bubble allows the form of multiples and the superheated liquid will explode in superheated steam.

The same thing happens if you put a flawless glass filled with water into the microwave.

Gatorade Frost

I hate kids, don't like them in public, ignore them when I'm getting dinner, and don't think they should be allowed in movies.

But

Seeing as they are allowed at places that serve food I think you're overreacting. Think for a minute why the milk would have gone into a bag...

Maybe letting it cool?

A baby's bottle isn't that terribly gross and I'd be suprised if it carried more germs on it than the plate you're eating off of or the food you're eating. Plus anything being microwaved is going to be pretty well radiated and killed I would think.

I think your dislike for kids is causing you to overreact to every little thing.

For that, I'd like to prescribe you a chill pill to be taken every evening before you go out in public on the off chance you see a kid.

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

magictoy

I'm with ya... sort of. I have two kids. Pretty much grown. My wife and I are amused by kids looking at us like you described, as long as he's not throwing shit, or screaming, or otherwise being a pain in the ass. My wife thinks it's "cute," and that's all it takes to start her down memory lane regarding "when ours were that age."

That said, the whole issue boils down to whether or not the parents maintain proper behavior of their little precious.

OTOH, for those people who just want to go to a place where they don't have to put up with kids, I can sympathize. However, I imagine it's against the law to specify an age limit in a restaurant, as opposed to a bar. The law needs to be changed.

When I see a disgusting snot-nose around, I just tell myself that a human needs to be exposed to pathogens to keep the immune system working properly.

I THINK that might be true. In any case, it's my story and I'm sticking to it, because it makes me feel better.

FallenAvatar

Basically, the bottle is fine to stick in the microwave. You really don't need to worry about catching something from it, when you consider how hot the inside of the microwave is.

Secondly, microwaves although important for home use are used very little it the business. You use it to make things like bacon, and warm up side dishes that may have become cold but other then that you really don't use them a lot.

With this being said I understand children can be a pain while out. I'm in the business, we own our own restaurant and we see a lot and I do mean A LOT of children. Most of the time they behave pretty well.. it's the job of the parents to monitor their own children; honestly speaking however, if they can't control the child then they shouldn't take their kids out to eat. So I think your a little out of line with the bottle thing, but I can understand screaming or obnoxious kids.

kutulu

How about growing up and realizing that everyone has needs and annoyances, not just you?

I'll give you an allowance if you were at a 5 star dining establishment but chances are, you weren't. You obviously know little about age-appropriate behavior for kids. If it bothers you so much you can always request a different table or move to a different seat at your table so you can't see them.

warrrreagl

*sigh*

...just longing for the good old days on TFP when you could poke fun at things without people bursting a blood vessel over it.

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

Carno

Dude, you weren't poking fun, you were whining about it irrationally.

__________________
http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

maleficent

you say whining irrationally like it's a bad thing.. is whining rationally preferred?

__________________

Gatorade Frost

Well, it's only bad when you're whining irrationally about people not whining irrationally with your own irrational whining.

__________________
I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

SirLance

As to the OP, you're overreacting. If the kid was throwing chips, then Mom & Dad should have stopped him. All of the bad behavior examples presented here are all coming from adults not taking responsibility.

__________________
DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

Marvelous Marv

Good luck with that.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher