aberkok

Perhaps this will clarify:

"Aversion to arbitrarily dispensed authority,"

is not the same thing as

"Arbitrary aversion to authority,"

just because they contain the same word.

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ubertuber

Perhaps not, but neither is the same thing as "vehement aversion to rules", which is both still more strongly worded and the original thread title. Arbitrary didn't show up until around the time of post #30. At this point, this part of the thread is sort of missing the forest for the trees.

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rainheart

The assumption is that it will never change, whatever it is. Did you ever actually apply a fairly thorough process to try and determine if things will change or not? Beyond that, can you make any examples in which complacency to unfair authority brought a change of circumstances into fair ones? At first glance and by definition it seems unlikely to be even possible.

First off, you took JinnKai's use of the word "arbitrary" out of context, there is a difference between arbitrarily dispensed authority and arbitrarily resisting authority.

If you take a look at my posts I have been not been condoning the "automatic gainsay of rules" at all. I have been condoning thoroughly evaluated and justified opposition to authority. It is in fact, you, who has been neglecting (or [hopefully unintendedly] redefining) what I've been trying to communicate.

Then perhaps the problem is really one of miscommunication. So let's take a look at the definition of the word "Vehement":
1. Showing strong feeling; forceful or intense.
2. Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion or conviction; fervid: a vehement denial.
3. Marked by or full of vigor or energy; strong: a vehement storm.

The definition of arbitrary is unlike the definition of vehement. Arbitrary denotes a sense of whim or impulse- sometimes without reason or principle, whereas vehement denotes a sense of strong conviction.

You may have a strong conviction about a point of view and it may be understandable because you are capable of explaining in depth and with reason why it is a valid point of view to have. Just because you display fervor or passion for what you do, it does not necessarily mean that you haven't thought about it, and it does not necessarily mean that you are acting on impulse.

Gilda

I was a middle school teacher for several years, so I know the knee-jerk aversion to authority well. It tended to manifest a little more commonly in boys than in girls, but there were at least a few or each each year, and at that age there seemed to be a few commonalities.

1. Presenting behavior. Some were showing off, or thought that being defiant was cool or showed how tough they were, or were showing off for the opposite sex students.

2. Argument from ignorance. If I don't know why something is against the rules, or don't understand the reasoning, then the rule is unreasonable.

3. Personal inconvenience. This seemed to be by far the most common reason for defiance. I want to be able to do A, so the rule against A is unreasonable.

4. Personal exception: I understand the rule against A, and reasoning behind it, and it's a good rule for the most part, but I should be the exception because I can do activity A in such a way as to not cause the problems the rule seeks to prevent.

5. Unique exception: This is a one-time thing and it's very important to me, therefore the rule should not apply to me. The problem here is that, though there may be rare exceptions, everyone has a different level for what is important enough to qualify for the exception, most people have an elevated sense of importance for their own stuff, and the moment one exception is made, everyone feels entitled to the same exception.

These attitudes seem to have faded a bit by the time they reach college age, though it continues to be more common among the boys than the girls, and seems to resurface a bit in the older students, especially those in their 50's or older.

Gilda