Supreme Court allows church's hallucinogenic tea - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Astrocloud · 02-21-2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Court allows church's hallucinogenic tea

GINA HOLLAND
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Tuesday that a small congregation in New Mexico may use hallucinogenic tea as part of a four-hour ritual intended to connect with God.
Justices, in their first religious freedom decision under Chief Justice John Roberts, moved decisively to keep the government out of a church's religious practice. Federal drug agents should have been barred from confiscating the hoasca tea of the Brazil-based church, Roberts wrote in the decision.
The tea, which contains an illegal drug known as DMT, is considered sacred to members of O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal, which has a blend of Christian beliefs and South American traditions. Members believe they can understand God only by drinking the tea, which is consumed twice a month at four-hour ceremonies.
New Justice Samuel Alito did not take part in the case, which was argued last fall before Justice Sandra Day O'Connor before her retirement. Alito was on the bench for the first time on Tuesday.
Roberts said that the Bush administration had not met its burden under a federal religious freedom law to show that it could ban "the sect's sincere religious practice."
The chief justice had also been skeptical of the government's position in the case last fall, suggesting that the administration was demanding too much, a "zero tolerance approach."
The Bush administration had argued that the drug in the tea not only violates a federal narcotics law, but a treaty in which the United States promised to block the importation of drugs including dimethyltryptamine, also known as DMT.
"The government did not even submit evidence addressing the international consequences of granting an exemption for the (church)," Roberts wrote.
The justices sent the case back to a federal appeals court, which could consider more evidence.
Roberts, writing his second opinion since joining the court, said that religious freedom cases can be difficult "but Congress has determined that courts should strike sensible balances."
The case is Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal, 04-1084.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/13924884.htm

My prediction is that this 'small church' is going to become very large.

BigBen · 02-21-2006, 09:29 AM

Repeat after me:

I Want To Be A Rastafarian.

"Get up, stand up... Stand up for your rights."
"Pass the dutchie to the left hand side..."

Dudes, ganja is part of the religion. I think someone may have opened a tiny loophole here, no?

Flyman is my preacher. He doesn't say much, but is ass is something to behold.

Poppinjay · 02-21-2006, 09:44 AM

I'm ready to spread the gospel. I hope they'll let me do it in English.

flat5 · 02-21-2006, 10:23 AM

PR aside, as I read it:

The High Court sent it back to the lower court to tighten the case.
They thought the gov. work was sloppy.

Coppertop · 02-21-2006, 10:32 AM

This is, like, totally cool, man.

TexanAvenger · 02-21-2006, 10:47 AM

This is how seperation of church and state was originally intended to be. Not so much 'keep your church out of my state,' (Though I think there should be more of that) but 'keep your state out of my church.'

I'd be curious to see where this goes in the coming weeks and months.

SirLance · 02-21-2006, 12:44 PM

Hey, Ben, where do I join your church!

BigBen · 02-21-2006, 12:52 PM

It's not my church...

It is Flyman's. Ask him. You have to ride a goat as part of the initiation, though.

And take the red pill.

And ride the snake.

(cue The Doors: The End)

Ace_O_Spades · 02-21-2006, 02:28 PM

And everywhere all over the world, society collapses because people on the whole might have to accept the fact that mind altering substances have positive applications.

Of course I'm joking, but I don't even see why this is an issue. Zero tolerance = zero thinking... let these people have their religious ceremony.

And while they're at it, let me have my goddamn marijuana already!

SirLance · 02-21-2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen

It's not my church...

It is Flyman's. Ask him. You have to ride a goat as part of the initiation, though.

And take the red pill.

And ride the snake.

Hey Flyman... how about it!

Can I eat the goat after I ride it?

Red pill, no problem.

Can I eat the snake after I ride it?

skier · 02-21-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirLance

Can I eat the snake after I ride it?

sorry man but that's hilarious

CSflim · 02-21-2006, 03:25 PM

Shessh! The govenment, eh guys? Don't they realise that 'religious freedom' means the rules don't apply to religions?

moot1337 · 02-21-2006, 10:30 PM

PRAISE FLYMAN!!!!!!

.... and there was much rejoicing.

JumpinJesus · 02-21-2006, 10:50 PM

I'm wondering if this decision will be considered precedence for other religions claiming religious freedom in the use of narcotics as part of their beliefs or ceremonies and if this will further open the door to the decriminalization of certain substances in the eventual future.

I'll be curious to follow this story.

asaris · 02-22-2006, 10:02 AM

I just wanted to point out that SCOTUS didn't say that the state simply can't do anything about religious groups that use hallucinogens. It said the state can only butt in on that use if it has a compelling interest in doing so, and that the state hadn't shown this in this case.

Nimetic · 02-22-2006, 02:54 PM

Seems odd to me that if you belong to a church that has a belief system that includes drugs, then drugs are legit.

On the other hand, if you have a belief system that includes drugs - but do not believe in one or more gods, then the same substances are not legal.

vermin · 02-22-2006, 02:57 PM

I guess it sucks to be an atheist.

flamingdog · 02-22-2006, 03:02 PM

Fly · 02-22-2006, 07:25 PM

people are gonna trip on whatever gathers thier fancy.....be it pot,booze........you know the deal.

myself........i don't use pot or beer for religious reasons....i enjoy them.....i know my limits and,if i wanna smoke one.....or have a wobbly pop,well then..........fuck me.......i'll have one.

i do have more to say but........am a little on the sauce right now so,i'll get back to this thread.

Fly · 02-22-2006, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen

It's not my church...

It is Flyman's. Ask him. You have to ride a goat as part of the initiation, though.

please............i don't like the idea of any religions.......all they do is cause conflict amongst other religions.

Fuck that.

i do though,appreciate what you're sayin' man.

but you know...........i am diggin' this goat idea...........

"are you my daaaaaaaaaaaad".........

Fly · 02-22-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirLance

Hey Flyman... how about it!

Can I eat the goat after I ride it?

we'll throw the bastard on my spit and eat him after you ride him.

you can even have the first bite man........

do you like potatoes?

Fly · 02-22-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moot1337

PRAISE FLYMAN!!!!!!

no need for this man........i'm just a regular guy that works hard for what he has......and enjoys to smoke pot.

no big deal really.......the laws are fucked but.........i don't fuck with people so,i figure i ain't gonna get fucked with either.

*lights up*

too many things in life yet to expierience............

*drops acid*

*plays air guitar*

..........wow man.....this is some good sid man.

fuck

no,no,no.........keep them shrooms away from me man........bad trip i am sooooooo not into tonight.

mom...........is that you?

i love you mommie...........

yup........life is rough eh?

BigBen · 02-22-2006, 08:13 PM

Show us your fucking hairy ass, oh Worshipful One!

msh58 · 02-22-2006, 08:14 PM

often wondered if drugs were kept only for religious reasons if there would have been less of a problem. christians with the wine, native americans with tobacco or others, and things sure went to hell when the christians got tobacco and the native americans wine with no perspective other than to take as much as possible. Or giving up religion altogether and left with just the drug like today for a lot of people in many ways.

as i finish a twelve pack yet again.

yet i don't think a drug pulls a person closer to god. just my opinion though, i don't have problems with religious people taking them, i just think they are on the wrong track.

and i'm really on the wrong track.

02-21-2006, 09:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Repeat after me: I Want To Be A Rastafarian. "Get up, stand up... Stand up for your rights." "Pass the dutchie to the left hand side..." Dudes, ganja is part of the religion. I think someone may have opened a tiny loophole here, no? Flyman is my preacher. He doesn't say much, but is ass is something to behold. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

02-21-2006, 09:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	I'm ready to spread the gospel. I hope they'll let me do it in English. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

02-21-2006, 12:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	Hey, Ben, where do I join your church! __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

02-21-2006, 12:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	It's not my church... It is Flyman's. Ask him. You have to ride a goat as part of the initiation, though. And take the red pill. And ride the snake. (cue The Doors: The End) __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

02-21-2006, 02:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	And everywhere all over the world, society collapses because people on the whole might have to accept the fact that mind altering substances have positive applications. Of course I'm joking, but I don't even see why this is an issue. Zero tolerance = zero thinking... let these people have their religious ceremony. And while they're at it, let me have my goddamn marijuana already! __________________ Feh.

02-21-2006, 10:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	PR aside, as I read it: The High Court sent it back to the lower court to tighten the case. They thought the gov. work was sloppy.

02-21-2006, 10:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	This is, like, totally cool, man.

02-21-2006, 10:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
TexanAvenger Born-Again New Guy Location: Unfound.	This is how seperation of church and state was originally intended to be. Not so much 'keep your church out of my state,' (Though I think there should be more of that) but 'keep your state out of my church.' I'd be curious to see where this goes in the coming weeks and months.

02-21-2006, 03:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Shessh! The govenment, eh guys? Don't they realise that 'religious freedom' means the rules don't apply to religions? __________________

02-21-2006, 10:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
moot1337 Insane Location: Learning to Fly...	PRAISE FLYMAN!!!!!! .... and there was much rejoicing. __________________ And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes. Oh, certainly, sir.

02-21-2006, 10:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I'm wondering if this decision will be considered precedence for other religions claiming religious freedom in the use of narcotics as part of their beliefs or ceremonies and if this will further open the door to the decriminalization of certain substances in the eventual future. I'll be curious to follow this story. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

02-22-2006, 10:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	I just wanted to point out that SCOTUS didn't say that the state simply can't do anything about religious groups that use hallucinogens. It said the state can only butt in on that use if it has a compelling interest in doing so, and that the state hadn't shown this in this case. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

02-22-2006, 02:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	Seems odd to me that if you belong to a church that has a belief system that includes drugs, then drugs are legit. On the other hand, if you have a belief system that includes drugs - but do not believe in one or more gods, then the same substances are not legal.

02-22-2006, 02:57 PM	#17 (permalink)
vermin Indifferent to anti-matter Location: Tucson, AZ	I guess it sucks to be an atheist. __________________ If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.

02-22-2006, 03:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
flamingdog Still fighting it.

02-22-2006, 07:25 PM	#19 (permalink)
Fly see the links to my music? Location: Beautiful British Columbia	people are gonna trip on whatever gathers thier fancy.....be it pot,booze........you know the deal. myself........i don't use pot or beer for religious reasons....i enjoy them.....i know my limits and,if i wanna smoke one.....or have a wobbly pop,well then..........fuck me.......i'll have one. i do have more to say but........am a little on the sauce right now so,i'll get back to this thread. __________________ BASTARD SterlingStudios

02-22-2006, 08:13 PM	#23 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Show us your fucking hairy ass, oh Worshipful One! __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

02-22-2006, 08:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
msh58 Crazy	often wondered if drugs were kept only for religious reasons if there would have been less of a problem. christians with the wine, native americans with tobacco or others, and things sure went to hell when the christians got tobacco and the native americans wine with no perspective other than to take as much as possible. Or giving up religion altogether and left with just the drug like today for a lot of people in many ways. as i finish a twelve pack yet again. yet i don't think a drug pulls a person closer to god. just my opinion though, i don't have problems with religious people taking them, i just think they are on the wrong track. and i'm really on the wrong track. Last edited by msh58; 02-22-2006 at 08:18 PM..