poundpuppy34

recently i have noted the guys around me have been hunting after what they call "strong wemon" (i appolagize for spelling ). what is this concept is it a person who dosent show emotions or is "strong" ennough to show them?... What is your example of a strong women or man and why?

poundpuppy34

and grammer...

abaya

Strength, to me, is humility and having the heart of a servant leader, of not worrying what other people think. It is the ability and willingness to keep each other safe, regardless of gender. I see strength as being that of character, not body... strong enough to overcome gender stereotypes and simply be who you are.

For men, I guess that means being strong enough in oneself to be able to feel and show emotion without fear of repercussion, to be able to show one's vulnerability in a safe situation. For women, I would say the same, actually... to feel and show emotion *not* because it gives you a dramatic high and makes your heart pound (which is what I see many women doing), but because it reveals your vulnerability and need for others.

I respect a man's strength in being willing to ask for help, in not being arrogant and assuming he can fix anything, in being able to surrender when he feels weak... basically, for having respect for others and for caring for himself instead of bottling it all up.

I do respect women for being strong, but not necessarily physically (and yes, I do work out regularly and love the feel of my muscles, but I don't see that as "strength" even though I can kick some ass ). For women in general, I think they are strong if they can be themselves without sacrificing any of their toughness to the social demands of femininity. If they can walk with confidence and know that they are loved and are capable of loving. If they know that no man is better than them, and that they are no better than any man. If they do not need to cling to other people in order to feel secure.

Just some random thoughts...

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DJ Happy

"Stregnth" is a misspelling of "strength."

ratbastid

Notice the "edit" button? It's good for those times when you've temporarily misplaced your dictionary.

A "strong woman" is one who is independent, and successful in her own right and on her own terms. It's not necessarily about showing or not showing emotions, so much. The strongest woman I know works as a management consultant, and takes on people's resignation and poor communication at the corporate level every single day. She's fucking fearless when it comes to intervening in people's work lives, and everyone she touches is better for it. I admire her hugely.

maleficent

Strength and Independent are fairly synonomous to me....

I strong person is one who doesn't need constant reassurances that they are doing the right thing... they don't need to be told their good qualities, because they know what they are. They don't have a dependence on other people's opinions to know they are OK. Basically strong women have figured out that the NEED part comes from within themselves - but are perfectly OK with WANTing some of the above.

A strong person isn't afraid to show emotion, but they also don't let their emotions control them

One of these days, i'll figure out how to get myself strong... Flintstones vitamins aren't enough.

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Bill O'Rights

Spoken like a true English Major.

Agreed! I would also add the "she" is one that does not "need" a man to complete her. While she may choose to "partner" with one, she needs no man's coat tails, to hang onto...she has her own.

Oooh...excellent point. I like that.
/me jots that down.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

raeanna74

Strength of character means to me that the person, male or female, does not need another person of any gender to complete them, reassure them they are attractive (though we always do enjoy it a strong person does not NEED it), and who does not need another person to make them happy.

We need other people in general but we SHOULD be able to continue independant of others during those times when everyone else has other things they need to do.

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My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

jwoody

A perfect example of a strong woman is a dyslexic brave enough to post their thoughts on a public message board.

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Rodney

...or doesn't need to tout their own superiority by gratuitously pointing out somebody else's faults. Spelling/grammar Nazis, take note.

If all you wanted to do was correct him/her, PMs are fine. If you truly couldn't understand, that's another matter. But obviously, you did understand.

I edited professionally for 20 years, and I _don't_ go around correcting posting grammar. It's the world; if people can communicate, that's good enough.

You can "expect" anything you want as a standard level of grammar or spelling, but that's your expectation, and it has no force of law. Any good linguist will tell you that language is made in the street, not in the dusty offices of grammarians.

I'm a bit disappointed in some of you. But then, that's according to _my_ expectations.

Willravel

Strong = knowledge of ones self and those around them and the active application of that knowledge without fear of speaking or behaving in a way that could be a social taboo.

Elphaba

Rodney, I am always thankful that I am not called to task for my poor spelling and grammar, and for that reason I don't go "grammar/spelling nazi" on anyone else. I love the name "poundpuppy," but I find it difficult to pick through the post to discover what his or her question might be. The spelling of the words that I have bolded should have been learned in grade school and I think it fair that TFP members would consider it appropriate to point this out to a new member. A little more effort on the part of poundpuppy would have produced a very different welcome. My 2 cents.

ratbastid

He pointed it out, and in a second post, too. My intention was to steer him toward the "edit" button so he could actually DO something about the spelling and grammar issues, rather than just post again to apologize for them. I hate to have anybody feel like they look stupid.

Rodney

Okay. Sorry.

meembo

I think "strength" can have remarkably subjective definitions. I see strength as being the ability to get up and do what needs to be done (with apologies to Garrison Keillor). This kind of strength involves ethics, stamina, perseverance, selflessness, and other virtues that direct purposeful action. It's core component is resolved action to do what you know to be the right thing.

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less I say, smarter I am

Toaster126

I'd agree with meembo. There are so many different situations and connotations that determine what strength means... and it's all on an individual basis.

For me, strength is the ability to do what is wanted or needed without being stopped by other forces. I don't think strength has anything to do with morality or "good" things. It just is.

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poundpuppy34

I appreciated everyone who actually commented on the essence of my question rather than the presentation of it. As for those who did enjoy the pointing out of grammatical and spelling mistakes, I enjoyed reading your commentary as well.

Gilda

Guess who Gilda's going to post about? . No, not Grace. She's a distinct second to the strongest woman I know.

My sister, Sissy, was put through an emotional hell starting in her preteen years up until when she started high school because, it was assumed by everyone around her, she was an overtly effeminate gay boy, despite her protestations to all involved that she was, in fact actually a girl in the wrong body. I can't imagine the strength of character it must have taken to look at herself, in a physically normal male body, and to tell herself that what she felt inside was the truth, and not the evidence of her body, and what everyone around her told her on a daily basis. She knew the truth, and clung to it in the face of what should have been overwhelming pressure to conform.

This invited, amont other things, molestation from a trusted family member, ridicule from her father, frigidity from her mother, and continual teasing and bullying at school. The only people who'd ever let her be herself were both gone, my sister Katie dead in a car accident and me gone to college and living on my own.

At 15 she should have been an emotional cripple, angry, bitter, frustrated, depressed. And she was, to some extent angry, frustrated and depressed, but was still strong enough to do what she needed to pull herself out of the hole life had put her in. Knowing that we'd probably lose, she endured months of a custody fight, testifying in court repeatedly, showing a strength of character I've never seen in any person, being called evil, sick, and insane to her face by people who professed to love her. And she never gave up, eventually with help of the best lawyers her sister's filthy rich father-in-law's money could buy gaining her independance from the people trying to force on her something she could never be.

Having gained custody a week into the beginning of the school year, we were prepared to give Sissy some homeschooling to give her time to learn how to be a girl. She already was in her mind, in her heart and soul, but she didn't have the fifteen years of training she should have had at that point, and the testosterone had already had some two years to start making recognizably male mature features develop. When she arrived in our care, she looked like any other skinny 15 year old boy. She needed training and practice to be completely convincing, and we were prepared to give her that time, the months she would need.

She arrived in her new home on a Wednesday, stubborn with us as she had been with her parents, and with four days of experience being a girl full time, she began her sophomore year of high school, in a school where she had no friends, knew nobody, which was ten times the size of her school back home, before she'd ever taken a hormone supplement or had any hair removal procedures done, when she was literally, physically a male in a dress, know that the consequences would be severe if she were read as male, she went anyway. Reckless or brave? I vote the latter. She was certain she would get clocked. Yet she proceeded with an aura of confidence that said, "This is who I am" that overrode any problems she might have with her movement and manner of presentation, going into the girls' bathrooms instead of the staff room which had been offered.

I can't imagine the degree of courage it took to do that. I found high school difficult and scary, and I didn't have the extra stress of hiding my birth sex from the world while navigating the climate of a school the size of a small city. She came home shaking and crying that first day, half convinced half the school knew already, that every person who looked at her for more than two seconds could tell, and then went back the next day and waited for the other shoe to drop. It wasn't until a couple of months in that she finally relaxed and accepted that she was being accepted as a girl. She did this all before she'd had a single medical treatment other than some laser hair removal.

And she got straight A's the whole time.

At 20 years old, she is happy, assertive, gregarious, and so far as I can tell, very nearly fearless, despite a nearly debilitating physical weakness in the upper body brought on by hormonal reassignement in her teens. As I write this, she's out on a date with a young man nearly twice her size, knowing that more than a few men have killed their transsexual girlfriends for no other reason than that they were transsexual (MTF's are murdered 12 times as often as genetic women). And it makes no difference to her, it isn't an obstacle to her enjoying herself and looking for a partner she can consider an equal.

That's strength.

Gilda

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