Courier vs. Motorist - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Charlatan · 01-30-2006, 10:37 AM

NOTE: This takes a while to load... be patient.

These are pictures from an altercation between a motorist and a courier in Kensington Market in downtown Toronto.

Apparently, the courier was walking her bike up the street when she witnessed the driver open his door and dump his trash (a bag with fast-food trash in it). She picked up the trash, opened the door to his car and tossed it back at him.

He proceeded to go apeshit on her. He got out of his car and tossed to large coffees at her and then grabbing her by her helmet, tossed her around. During the altercation, she scratched the paint on his car. He got back in his car and drove off.

A block or so away, he stopped and decided to come back and beat on her some more. This is where the photos start.

The driver fled the scene when he heard police sirens. They stopped him later based on his license plate number.

Apparently the police could charge the driver with a bunch of things: two counts of assault with a weapon, two counts of mischief, aggravated assault, etc. All they needed was for the courier to press charges. If she did press charges, she would likely be slapped with a charge of mischief.

She chose not to press charges and let "karma" get the driver.

You can read more about it here: http://www.citynoise.org/article/2770 Both the photographer and the courier give their account of the story.

How's that for road rage? I think she should have pressed charges on the guy. She probably went too far chucking the garbage back at him, but he went WAY too far. The idiot needs to be taught a lesson.

Toaster126 · 01-30-2006, 10:48 AM

Coffee is a weapon?

Bill O'Rights · 01-30-2006, 10:58 AM

Overreact much?

Although...one has to wonder if his reaction might have been altered had the object of his aggresion been closer to his size, and perhaps gone to the gym a couple of times a week?

Arrogant ass.

skier · 01-30-2006, 11:07 AM

I think karma is an interesting way to look at the world. But what if the "karma" involved was to press charges on this guy instead of letting him go scott free? It doesn't make sense to me not to do so.

fresnelly · 01-30-2006, 11:10 AM

Another reminder that violence is ugly and not like in the movies at all.

I sympathise with her regarding his callous littering, but opening his door and throwing the garbage in his face was a pretty aggressive move. I'm not excusing his actions of course; he's a tool.

I think a better move would have been to silently place the bag on the hood of his car. I likely would have picked it up and thrown it out myself, avoiding the confrontation altogether.

When he tells his side of the story, you can bet he'll minimize his actions and cast her as a nutjob.

Charlatan · 01-30-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

When he tells his side of the story, you can bet he'll minimize his actions and cast her as a nutjob.

I don't think there is any question of that...

maleficent · 01-30-2006, 11:13 AM

there's someonewith some anger management issues...

feelgood · 01-30-2006, 11:21 AM

Wow, that's unreal. I gotta show this to some of the couriers at Fedex.

Everybody had to practically tear this guy off her, he's got some serious anger issue and he's really stupid enough to think that he's gonna get away with dumping trash.

The chick in the last pic is a hottie

The_Jazz · 01-30-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skier

I think karma is an interesting way to look at the world. But what if the "karma" involved was to press charges on this guy instead of letting him go scott free? It doesn't make sense to me not to do so.

Scott free? Don't you think that having his mug now plastered all over the internet along with a story of what an ass he is constitutes karmic revenge? I've seen these pictures on at least 2 other boards.

Hopefully someone will throw out this moron's name or other information, and he'll Steve Bartman-ed.

Willravel · 01-30-2006, 11:53 AM

I hope those people that pulled them apart have great karma for a long time.

maleficent · 01-30-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelgood

The chick in the last pic is a hottie

I was just waiting for someone to comment on her

you didn't disappoint :0

feelgood · 01-30-2006, 11:56 AM

[threadjack]

Now hold on, Steve Bartman didn't do anything wrong, his hand was in the wrong place and wrong time

[/threadjack]

Charlatan · 01-30-2006, 02:55 PM

Apparently the "hottie" in the last pic is the hothead's wife or girlfriend.

The_Jazz · 01-30-2006, 02:59 PM

Is it just me or does the hottie look like the teacher in Florida who was accused (and convicted?) of having sex with the 14 year old student while his 15 year old cousin drove them around?

Willravel · 01-30-2006, 03:00 PM

"You're making me angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!!!!"

/end threadjack

JumpinJesus · 01-30-2006, 03:27 PM

He was set off because someone threw trash in his car because he threw trash in the street, huh?

Did anyone point out the irony of it all?

I'm surprised the courier didn't have all her courier friends converge on him like a pack of angry chihuahuas or vengeful pigeons.

filtherton · 01-30-2006, 05:15 PM

All the couriers i know carry u-locks for just such occasions.

Charlatan · 01-30-2006, 06:58 PM

I had one when I was courier... but I wouldn't have used it. I'd rather not rot in jail on charges of assault with a weapon... let him rot.

Though, I do know a number of couriers that did use them in altercations with taxi cabs...

Charlatan · 01-31-2006, 01:27 PM

Interestingly these pictures and the story about how this incident have spread around the Internet were front page on the Toronto Star today.

highthief · 01-31-2006, 02:04 PM

Well, she's really an idiot for tossing the trash back at him. Just what the fuck did she expect was going to happen?

That being said, I don't hold with men beating on women either, so he's a bigger asshole.

But I don't have a lot of sympathy for her either...

kutulu · 01-31-2006, 02:17 PM

What a jackass. Good thing he didn't have a gun with him.

pocon1 · 01-31-2006, 08:11 PM

nothing to say

highthief · 02-01-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocon1

On the other hand, if she or someone else does not call attention to his asshole behaviors, then who is? I have been tempted to do this many times with smokers and their cigarette butts, or to at least tuck it under their windshield wiper. The cops and laws won't do anything about it. Of course, I am a bit bigger than she is.

That's the point - there are some battles worth fighting, and some that aren't. This one really wasn't, no matter how you slice it.

Charlatan · 02-01-2006, 06:30 AM

I've just spent some time reading the website from which the pictures originate... It just reminds me why this place is so great. We really are a haven from the idiocy that it rampant on the Interweb.

I think the newspaper article reminded me that road rage and flaming seem to stem from the same source of annonymity. I wonder how many punch ups would occur if idiots who run their mouths (text) in flame wars were to meet face to face?

Ace_O_Spades · 02-01-2006, 07:09 AM

I definitely would have pressed charges.... Karma won't give me the satisfaction of knowing that the guy who flipped on me will have a criminal record.

THAT's something that sticks with someone...

also, to those saying she shouldn't have thrown the trash back in... I agree. There have been many times where I've simply said "Hey buddy, don't leave your trash there."

Now usually the person will be embarrassed and pick up the trash and speed off... I have yet to have someone flip out at me over it. But once again, I'm a lot bigger than her.

Poppinjay · 02-01-2006, 10:34 AM

I hope his girlfriend was very impressed with his brawny display of machismo. He probably does the same thing to her at home.

ratbastid · 02-01-2006, 12:48 PM

I thought Canadians were supposed to be nice...

Charlatan · 02-01-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I thought Canadians were supposed to be nice...

Just to Americans... to each other we are monsters.

cyrnel · 02-01-2006, 01:11 PM

No, no. He's French. I'm sure I bumped into him in a Marseilles restaurant.

Anyway, he's a good guy but his smile is a bit forced. He was probably just trying to give her bike a free tuneup. I've heard that's the Canadian version of our window washers.

CSflim · 02-01-2006, 01:25 PM

Wow, I think it's REALLY unfortunate that she didn't press charges. This shithead deserves it. Don't believe in karma - but at times like this I wish I did!

feelgood · 02-01-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I thought Canadians were supposed to be nice...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Just to Americans... to each other we are monsters.

Both of you are mistaken. Us Canadian are nice to each other but Canadian and French Canadian are a different story

Charlatan · 02-01-2006, 02:14 PM

Naw... that's just Western Canadians... no one likes them...

Carno · 02-01-2006, 02:50 PM

LOL @ the photochop..

Man that is some funny shit.. He really flew off the handle.

EDIT: his pose in the second pic is funny as hell

ObieX · 02-01-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carn

EDIT: his pose in the second pic is funny as hell

LOL i had missed that

cyrnel · 02-01-2006, 07:36 PM

That's his "may I bring you the wine list?" face.

PulpMind · 02-02-2006, 07:33 PM

She had EVERY right to throw HIS garbage back into HIS vehicle after littering OUR streets. What a fucking asshole, before he even got out of his car.

highthief · 02-03-2006, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulpMind

She had EVERY right to throw HIS garbage back into HIS vehicle after littering OUR streets. What a fucking asshole, before he even got out of his car.

No, she doesn't. On some moral level, I sort of agree (people should not litter) - but if you opened my car door and whipped garbage at me personally or my wife or daughter, I'd get out of the car and beat you to a pulp (well, if you were a guy. If it was a woman, my wife would get out and beat you!). And despite the moral indignation going on around here over his actions, a lot of people would do the same thing if personally assaulted by a courier with a bag of garbage.

That's why no charges are pressed - because she would get charged as well.

1) He did something wrong.

2) She escalated it.

3) He escalated it again.

Carno · 02-03-2006, 04:56 AM

"Yeah bitch what now?! You want some of this?!?!!"

LOL

Zeraph · 02-03-2006, 09:47 AM

Ya, she should have pressed charges. This is one reason I like arizona, the state is considered the victim so they don't need the real vic to press charges to go after the criminal.

Besides the seriousness, this is really funny though

Reminds me of a madtv/snl sketch.

Edit: Hmm are we sure this is real? The facial expressions seem a little fake, the pictures are very convenient, and she didn't press charges.

Charlatan · 02-03-2006, 10:07 AM

It's real. There are plenty who have come forward that were there. Offering their view of what went down.

Actually, it turns out that the only one that can bring up charges is an office of the peace (ie the cops). They chose to not press charges once the courier suggested they don't. Apparently, this decision was revisited by the police after it was on the front page of the Toronto Star.

01-30-2006, 10:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Courier vs. Motorist NOTE: This takes a while to load... be patient. These are pictures from an altercation between a motorist and a courier in Kensington Market in downtown Toronto. Apparently, the courier was walking her bike up the street when she witnessed the driver open his door and dump his trash (a bag with fast-food trash in it). She picked up the trash, opened the door to his car and tossed it back at him. He proceeded to go apeshit on her. He got out of his car and tossed to large coffees at her and then grabbing her by her helmet, tossed her around. During the altercation, she scratched the paint on his car. He got back in his car and drove off. A block or so away, he stopped and decided to come back and beat on her some more. This is where the photos start. The driver fled the scene when he heard police sirens. They stopped him later based on his license plate number. Apparently the police could charge the driver with a bunch of things: two counts of assault with a weapon, two counts of mischief, aggravated assault, etc. All they needed was for the courier to press charges. If she did press charges, she would likely be slapped with a charge of mischief. She chose not to press charges and let "karma" get the driver. You can read more about it here: http://www.citynoise.org/article/2770 Both the photographer and the courier give their account of the story. How's that for road rage? I think she should have pressed charges on the guy. She probably went too far chucking the garbage back at him, but he went WAY too far. The idiot needs to be taught a lesson. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-30-2006, 10:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
Toaster126 Extreme moderation Location: Kansas City, yo.	Coffee is a weapon? __________________ "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

01-30-2006, 10:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Overreact much? Although...one has to wonder if his reaction might have been altered had the object of his aggresion been closer to his size, and perhaps gone to the gym a couple of times a week? Arrogant ass. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

01-30-2006, 11:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
skier Rawr! Location: Edmontania	I think karma is an interesting way to look at the world. But what if the "karma" involved was to press charges on this guy instead of letting him go scott free? It doesn't make sense to me not to do so. __________________ "Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

01-30-2006, 11:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	Another reminder that violence is ugly and not like in the movies at all. I sympathise with her regarding his callous littering, but opening his door and throwing the garbage in his face was a pretty aggressive move. I'm not excusing his actions of course; he's a tool. I think a better move would have been to silently place the bag on the hood of his car. I likely would have picked it up and thrown it out myself, avoiding the confrontation altogether. When he tells his side of the story, you can bet he'll minimize his actions and cast her as a nutjob. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

01-30-2006, 11:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	there's someonewith some anger management issues... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

01-30-2006, 11:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Wow, that's unreal. I gotta show this to some of the couriers at Fedex. Everybody had to practically tear this guy off her, he's got some serious anger issue and he's really stupid enough to think that he's gonna get away with dumping trash. The chick in the last pic is a hottie

01-30-2006, 11:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I hope those people that pulled them apart have great karma for a long time.

01-30-2006, 11:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	[threadjack] Now hold on, Steve Bartman didn't do anything wrong, his hand was in the wrong place and wrong time [/threadjack]

01-30-2006, 02:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Apparently the "hottie" in the last pic is the hothead's wife or girlfriend. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-30-2006, 02:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Is it just me or does the hottie look like the teacher in Florida who was accused (and convicted?) of having sex with the 14 year old student while his 15 year old cousin drove them around?

01-30-2006, 03:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	"You're making me angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!!!!" /end threadjack

01-30-2006, 03:27 PM	#16 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	He was set off because someone threw trash in his car because he threw trash in the street, huh? Did anyone point out the irony of it all? I'm surprised the courier didn't have all her courier friends converge on him like a pack of angry chihuahuas or vengeful pigeons. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

01-30-2006, 05:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	All the couriers i know carry u-locks for just such occasions.

01-30-2006, 06:58 PM	#18 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I had one when I was courier... but I wouldn't have used it. I'd rather not rot in jail on charges of assault with a weapon... let him rot. Though, I do know a number of couriers that did use them in altercations with taxi cabs... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-31-2006, 08:11 PM	#22 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 09:45 PM..

02-01-2006, 12:48 PM	#27 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I thought Canadians were supposed to be nice...

01-31-2006, 01:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Interestingly these pictures and the story about how this incident have spread around the Internet were front page on the Toronto Star today. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

01-31-2006, 02:04 PM	#20 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Well, she's really an idiot for tossing the trash back at him. Just what the fuck did she expect was going to happen? That being said, I don't hold with men beating on women either, so he's a bigger asshole. But I don't have a lot of sympathy for her either... __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

01-31-2006, 02:17 PM	#21 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	What a jackass. Good thing he didn't have a gun with him.

02-01-2006, 06:30 AM	#24 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I've just spent some time reading the website from which the pictures originate... It just reminds me why this place is so great. We really are a haven from the idiocy that it rampant on the Interweb. I think the newspaper article reminded me that road rage and flaming seem to stem from the same source of annonymity. I wonder how many punch ups would occur if idiots who run their mouths (text) in flame wars were to meet face to face? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-01-2006, 07:09 AM	#25 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	I definitely would have pressed charges.... Karma won't give me the satisfaction of knowing that the guy who flipped on me will have a criminal record. THAT's something that sticks with someone... also, to those saying she shouldn't have thrown the trash back in... I agree. There have been many times where I've simply said "Hey buddy, don't leave your trash there." Now usually the person will be embarrassed and pick up the trash and speed off... I have yet to have someone flip out at me over it. But once again, I'm a lot bigger than her. __________________ Feh. Last edited by Ace_O_Spades; 02-01-2006 at 07:11 AM..

02-01-2006, 10:34 AM	#26 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	I hope his girlfriend was very impressed with his brawny display of machismo. He probably does the same thing to her at home. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

02-01-2006, 01:11 PM	#29 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	No, no. He's French. I'm sure I bumped into him in a Marseilles restaurant. Anyway, he's a good guy but his smile is a bit forced. He was probably just trying to give her bike a free tuneup. I've heard that's the Canadian version of our window washers. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

02-01-2006, 01:25 PM	#30 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Wow, I think it's REALLY unfortunate that she didn't press charges. This shithead deserves it. Don't believe in karma - but at times like this I wish I did! __________________

02-01-2006, 02:14 PM	#32 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Naw... that's just Western Canadians... no one likes them... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-01-2006, 02:50 PM	#33 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	LOL @ the photochop.. Man that is some funny shit.. He really flew off the handle. EDIT: his pose in the second pic is funny as hell __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

02-01-2006, 07:36 PM	#35 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	That's his "may I bring you the wine list?" face. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

02-02-2006, 07:33 PM	#36 (permalink)
PulpMind Addict Location: Portland	She had EVERY right to throw HIS garbage back into HIS vehicle after littering OUR streets. What a fucking asshole, before he even got out of his car.

02-03-2006, 04:56 AM	#38 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	"Yeah bitch what now?! You want some of this?!?!!" LOL __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

02-03-2006, 09:47 AM	#39 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Ya, she should have pressed charges. This is one reason I like arizona, the state is considered the victim so they don't need the real vic to press charges to go after the criminal. Besides the seriousness, this is really funny though Reminds me of a madtv/snl sketch. Edit: Hmm are we sure this is real? The facial expressions seem a little fake, the pictures are very convenient, and she didn't press charges. Last edited by Zeraph; 02-03-2006 at 09:50 AM..

02-03-2006, 10:07 AM	#40 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	It's real. There are plenty who have come forward that were there. Offering their view of what went down. Actually, it turns out that the only one that can bring up charges is an office of the peace (ie the cops). They chose to not press charges once the courier suggested they don't. Apparently, this decision was revisited by the police after it was on the front page of the Toronto Star. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke