roachboy

mobb deep: shook ones pt 2


jeru the damaga: came clean


group home: supa star


gang starr: mass appeal


because you cannot hear this enough times
ultramagnetic mcs: poppa large


public enemy: night of the living baseheads

from petv.
it's an important bit of information, trust me.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

liquidlight

What's so cool about this? it's the same freaking 2 bar rhythm over and over and over for 5 minutes! Anywhere else this is just LAZY, not to mention that in most cases they ripped off the original samples anyway! Uhg, if you're going to call yourself artists CREATE something!

__________________
Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

roachboy

so what exactly IS "creative work" then?
what counts as "creating something"?
unless you didnt mean anything in your post beyond "i dont like hip hop"
but if you did, why not spell it out?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

liquidlight

As you wish. . .

As defined by Merriam Webster

Music: 1 a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

Rhythm: 2 a : the aspect of music comprising all the elements (as accent, meter, and tempo) that relate to forward movement b : a characteristic rhythmic pattern <rumba rhythm>; also : 1METER 2 c : the group of instruments in a band supplying the rhythm

Melody: 1 : a sweet or agreeable succession or arrangement of sounds : TUNEFULNESS
2 : a rhythmic succession of single tones organized as an aesthetic whole

Harmony: 2 a : the combination of simultaneous musical notes in a chord b : the structure of music with respect to the composition and progression of chords c : the science of the structure, relation, and progression of chords

Creative: 2 : having the quality of something created rather than imitated :

Your "beats" lack any and all "forward movement" and therefore can't even be categorized as rhythm, I don't think you'll find anyone that would undergo the argument that hip-hop even makes a passing attempt at melody or harmony, and by pure definition they're not creative, simply imitative.

No, I don't like hip-hop. This is a generalization as there are certain songs and artists that I find engaging and provocative, either because they create a sound with their music, or their lyrics are actually SAYING something. The vulgar debasement that most of these morons spew incessantly as they whine about their guns, bitches, drugs, and booze in the ill-advised aim of trying to be more offensive then their predecessors in a pathetic attempt at maintaining themselves in the spotlight is NOT music.

My opinion (and you're equally entitled to yours) is that music should be uplifting and inspire people. Hip-hop stopped doing that a long time ago because it stopped making money. Before you ask, yes, I have the same gripe with all currently popular music and that's why I don't listen to the radio, it's all the same unoriginal regurgitated schlock.

I wish to emphasize that these are generalizations and not rules, give me a particular case and I'll be happy to take it on it's own merits, but these pieces do nothing at all to further my opinion of "the beats." I'm relatively certain that my six-year-old could make better sounding, more creative, less repetitive tracks on her computer if I gave her the samples used in these clips.

__________________
Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

roachboy

you should encourage your six year old to do it so that you do not end up sounding like any number of tedious middle class wankers who wander through a contemporary art gallery looking at this or that piece muttering

"what's the big deal? i could have done that..."

but of course, you didnt..and it would never have crossed your mind..
and chances are quite good that even if it did cross your mind, you still couldnt do it simply because making stuff is not as easy as you think. but you wouldnt get that far, so you'd never know.

"harumph, what crap--my 6 year old could do it."

so put up.
let's see what your 6 year old can do.
it's a no loose situation.
at no point would this be about your six-year old's skills--except perhaps via positive response (and if you do this, the tone will not be this tone)---
it's about YOUR claim that this music you neither like nor understand is SO EASY that a six year old could make it.

curious possibility: if it turns out that your 6 year old is a young prodigy at this sort of work, it'd be pretty funny to think that you'd never have known had you allowed your own musical views to determine what she explored, wouldnt it?

note on the productions:
you should understand that the dj premier beats (jeru, group home, gang starr) were made using turntables and computer in tandem. i imagine that you think that turntables are easy too. if you imagine that, then it is self-evident you haven't tried to work with them in this kind of way.
the mobb deep track sounds more like it was done using fairly basic pitch shifting and a fairly restricted base of materials--but the beats match the lyrics perfectly, regardless of whether those lyrics fit with your "up with people" aesthetic.

at the very least, you'll find out that this stuff is harder to make than you imagine, regardless of whether you like it.

btw: i didnt make these beats. you DO understand that, dont you?
i find it amusing from time to time to trawl about youtube and see whats there.
sometimes, to provide myself a pretext to do it, i make these threads.
the threads cover a pretty wide range of sound. look at the others and see for yourself.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

liquidlight

If I hadn't just shipped my daughter to California for a year I'd take you up on the offer, but you're rather missing my point.

I have gone through your other threads, and enjoyed them. My primary objection (which you overlooked in order to go on a tirade about an illustrative point) is that there is so much other source material that is so vastly superior to this, several genres that you've actually already done even, that it's confusing and somewhat disappointing that you'd showcase this bollocks instead.

You mention the technical aptitude necessary to accomplish this, but if they're so good at it, why is it that you've heard 95% of the song in the first 10 seconds of the track? You specifically site gang starr, I just listened to it again, and the ENTIRE song is a 3 second long sample on repeat, with ONE overlay interspersed with the chorus; group home manages a 4 second sample, but still it's on continuous repeat for the ENTIRE song with smaller snare and cymbal samples and almost seemingly random intervals.

That's why I object to this being calling "music." Other people will argue about the lyrics, saying that the beats are merely to set the timing, but my God hip-hop has resorted to MAKING UP WORDS rather than phrases that actually rhyme!

I'm not saying that you shouldn't like this, to each his own, but calling this material creative is preposterous.

__________________
Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

Baraka_Guru

As defined by Merriam Webster

Music: 1 a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

Hypothesis: Hip hop is deemed music as defined above.

Rhythm: 2 a : the aspect of music comprising all the elements (as accent, meter, and tempo) that relate to forward movement b : a characteristic rhythmic pattern <rumba rhythm>; also : 1METER 2 c : the group of instruments in a band supplying the rhythm

Contrary to what you said, liquidlight, hip hop is, at its core, strongly rhythmic. Much of it is laid upon a simple and unchanging 4X4 beat. If it didn't have "forward movement," it wouldn't have beats at all. And I think we can agree that it does. All things considered (i.e. beats, instrumental arrangements, and an unprecedented lyrical delivery), hip hop artists (including gangsta rappers) may very well have a much stronger sense of rhythm than many pop stars and rock musicians.

Melody: 1 : a sweet or agreeable succession or arrangement of sounds : TUNEFULNESS
2 : a rhythmic succession of single tones organized as an aesthetic whole

Many authentic hip hop artists (i.e. not necessarily gangsta rappers) are strong lyricists that have a keen sense of language. I would argue that in well-written hip hop, one will easily find an agreeable succession of sounds in this respect. The arrangement of words in many lines of hip hop are brilliant, and lyrical delivery, unmatched.

Harmony: 2 a : the combination of simultaneous musical notes in a chord b : the structure of music with respect to the composition and progression of chords c : the science of the structure, relation, and progression of chords

Good hip hop artists have a strong sense of harmony when they are able to piece together their samples over their beats. Otherwise, the tracks would sound like random noise, like a room full of people all talking at once, for example. Actually, I would say that hip hop is conventionally harmonious. Hip hop artists aren't known for experimenting with discordant forms in music.

Creative: 2 : having the quality of something created rather than imitated :

The creativity in hip hop is not in the instrumentation or percussion alone. (Though certain arrangements using various sources as samples can be deemed creative in themselves.) Hip hop creates something new when it takes source material from popular culture (and in certain cases from obscure sources) and rehashes it to achieve various results. In many cases, it is a subversion of popular music. In other cases, it is used purposely to invoke familiarity. However, it is not the instrumental arrangements that is at the fore, it is the lyrics.

While there is a lot of bad hip hop (there is a lot of bad in every area of the arts), there certainly is good hip hop, especially when you examine its lyrical power. In many ways, hip hop is a hybrid of music and poetry. Many people overlook this.

If you want to talk about creativity, perhaps we should discuss William Shakespeare's sources. Now there's an interesting conversation.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

mixedmedia

Mind if I add a few, rb?

Thanks for the public enemy.



some kind of remix...still sounds good


I saw PE live back in the day...they brought it, yes...


here's an old favorite


and to end it...stick 'em up, stick 'em up, jimmi

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

aberkok

I love this thread. Awesome beats and some great insights. Baraka, what a fantastic understanding you are showing. You impress me!

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Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

Baraka_Guru

Hey! Dat's a good dance!




Thermbs Arp!


Sewiouswy, though. This stuff is so classic, I don't think I can even call these beats "sick." What would they be? "Slammin'"?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

sweet
thanks ms media.

here's some couple more:

tribe called quest: can i kick it? (boilerhouse mix)


eric b & rakim: microphone fiend


brand nubian: all for one


brand nubian: wake up


poor righteous teachers: shayilah


there should be more prt on youtube, damn it.
so great were they.

hieroglyphics: you never know


hieroglyphics: dont hate the playa




del tha funky homosapien: if you must

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Jetée

Dudesons?!?!

You got both A Tribe Called Quest and Del Tha Funky Homosapien?!


This thread here is on course for a venture into the inescapable realm of "Funky Freshness"!

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

mixedmedia

Let's not forget the ladies...

Monie Love




MC Lyte

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

roachboy

nice. lovely. yay. add more

first off, here is the center of my personal internal soundtrack:
dimitri from paris: une very stylish fille


this is next to it
gil scott-heron: whitey on the moon


sherman set the wayback machine

grandmaster flash & the furious five: the message


this one is for you, liquidlight
stetsasonic: talkin all that jazz



and furthermore:

epmd: so what ya sayin?


slick rick: behind bars


slick rick: childrens story (classic like haydn)


krs-one, mad lion, doug e fresh, fat joe and jeru:


krs-one: sound of da police


black sheep: the choice is yours


fugess (translator crew): nappy heads


their first record was the shit. down and down after that.

rebel mc: street tuff


prefuse 73: point to b

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

mixedmedia

mmmmm'okay

Run DMC

w. a little Penn & Teller as an added bennie







Kool Moe Dee, KRS-One & Chuck D...w/ French subtitles no less

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Jetée

hey, mixed...your first video is missing a variable to complete the eleven-digit youtube code.

Although, I think I know what you are getting at... "It's Tricky"

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

mixedmedia

That'll do nicely Jetstream...danke

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce