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Originally posted by Peryn
Its called evolution and teh food chain. We are on top of the food chain. Does that mean we should not eat anything below us? Also, humans have evolved so we are meant to eat other animals. I dont remember the exact names off the top of my head, but there are certain necessary proteins that humans simply do not produce. We get them by eating other animals that do. Also, see those pointy teeth in the corner of your mouth? And those ones in the front? Those weren't designed to eat lettuce...
If we can produce and kill animals to eat, why not get an even greater good from their lives and deaths and learn to save ourselves?
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What you are essentially claiming is that the 'status quo' represents what is morally correct - we came out on top, therefore we
should be on top; might makes right. I'm not a vegetarian - I like my beef as much as the next guy. My point is that you can't argue from a ethical standpoint that what we are doing is somehow correct - it's just what we're doing. It's called being selfish. Humans >> animals, because we say so. Period.
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Originally posted by filtherton
Survival of the fittest has been applied to humanity since the beginning, and has gotten us this far. Survival of the fittest isn't dangerous, humanity is dangerous.
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No, it hasn't really. Otherwise, this debate on medical testing would be irrelevant. We wouldn't bother healing the people that are going to die anyway - it is a waste of resources. We wouldn't bother keeping old people alive, which is also a waste of resources. The genetically inferior would constantly be dying - that isn't happening. In the interest of human society we're keeping alive the people that 'should' be dead, from a biological standpoint.
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Originally posted by filtherton
While this seems irrelevant to the topic, I think you give the human race too much credit. You make it sound as we could possibly destroy this planet. Regardless of whether this "homo sapiens" thing pans out, i can assure you the earth will be around long after we are gone. I agree that we are destroying the planet's ability to sustain us, but up to this point do you think it could've happened any other way? I think that right now, in many ways, we're acting like there is no tomorrow, because it is not in our nature to act any differently.
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I'm not giving any more credit than we're due - but you're right, it isn't very relevant - except that it shows how medical testing just logically follows from all of the other things we've been doing. We've already flattened the planet beneath our heels, domesticate and slaughter millions of animals a year, what's a little medical testing? Sure, my comment is irrelevant, except that it demonstrates how debating medical testing completely misses the point. This is just a minor, minor part of the greater human/nature condition.
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Originally posted by filtherton
I think morality and the moral high ground is irrelevant. You could also argue that it is immoral to choose the lives of animals over humans. I'm not concerned with the morality right now, because discussions of morality usually just end up being a flamefest of self righteousness. I'm arguing that it is counter to the way nature seems to be set up for us not to kill animals to save humans when it suits us. I think regardless of morality, medical animal testing is ethically sound.
I agree with you that some of our actions in will probably prove to be unsustainable in the long run, but I doubt medical animal testing will be one of those things.
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Hmm ... morality doesn't matter ... except that 'medical animal testing is ethically sound'. Considering that ethics is defined as 'Moral principles or practice' by Websters's dictionary, I don't see how this makes any sense whatsoever.
Medical testing on animals happens. We benefit from it, the same way we get beef from animals, clear forests to build our shopping malls, and basically do whatever we want with the planet to suit our needs. You can't argue that any of this is ethical - people have tried long and hard to do it and nobody has been able to pull it off yet.
Don't get me wrong. I like big houses. I like having modern medicine. I don't like SUVs - but I like cars. I am all in favor of humanity. But I don't like that people run around with the illusion that somehow they are morally entitled to do what we, as a race, do. We do it because we can - because we are not going to let some stupid animals stand in our way. We're humans, by God, and we are going to do whatever it takes to get what we want.
Sound familiar?