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Now, isn't it interesting that the same religions that supported the cessation of slave trade were also used to *support* that slave trade previously?
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People used to think that the earth was the center of the universe. Is that mankind suddenly being stupid and being against science? No...it's part of the progess that human systems make. I don't expect science to have all the answers from day one...and the tradition of belief in progressive revelation makes it clear that religions don't expect that of themselves either. Pretty fair if you ask me.
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I said that religion, like extreme nationalism (Hitler) are authoritarian in nature. Godwin's law has nothing to do with it.
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You cite a time when governments killed, claim WITH OUT PROOF that religions are like that government
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You still can't make the claim that religion is authoritarian. It's proof by anecdote. I could "prove" that all governments are authoritarian by your means...its not logically sound in the least.
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I said that religion, like extreme nationalism (Hitler) are authoritarian in nature.
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Exactly...you assert religion is authoritarian, then mention that Nazi's are authoritarian. Wtf? There is no reason that this needs to get dragged in...nor can you prove that religion is by definition authoritarian. Even ONE non-authoritarian church would blow that statement right out of the water, and the relvenance of nazism to this debate right along with.
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Comparing the abstract concept of "Freedom" with the abstract concept of "God" in this instance is wrong, period. Freedom cannot be touched, but it's certainly real. Because it's an abstract concept, we cannot see it. God is simply not the same. Therefore, by *my* logic, freedom can be good, but believing in god is irrational.
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Intresting how your rebuttal of my arguemnt consisted of no facts, but simply unproven assumptions and personal feelings. I'm not trying to be a dick, but i don't think you make a coherant case for why they are different at all. Many people would say they are much the same...and i think you will have a hard time proving them wrong.
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You did not "prove" anything. You claimed there were some religions that were non-authoritarian. Great. Okay, how's about this: The world's major religions, as in "organized religions", are authoritarian.
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Its called counter example...i did prove something. But furthermore, i would say your revised assertion still suffers overbreath. Many churchs are authoritarian...i've suffered under a few such institutions...one of the reasons i went on church hiatus for so many years. But in striking contrast are many of the protestant churches, where there is no power structure beyond the individual community, and large numbers of church alternatives mean that there is little way for clergy to pressure their congregations with out them leaving for another church. Some cater to extremism, but many cater to progressives, and thinkers...and renouce the dangerous self rightiousness that you also decry. I've had much the same experience in visiting Reform synagagues...where community interaction is the core of religious understanding, not a top down decree from an all knowing source...i profess to have no experience visiting mosques, so i'll refrain from comment there. But point of the matter, personally i know your statement to be false....and i think you'd encounter much the same if you paid attention to the less visible liberal wings of the major monotheisms. The conservatives get the press...but they don't define the movement.
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Ah yes... some of the greatest minds on earth were send to prison for saying things that their religious leaders didn't like. Others were lucky enough to live in a time where organized religion lost most of it's political power.
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Ditto if you replace "religion" with "governments". I won't tell you all politics is evil...or anti-intellectual.
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It may not *mean* it, but for the extremists, it's certainly the case. And that is exactly my point: religion *can* be abused; it allows itself to be abused, and it's very design facilitates abuse.
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All power can be abused...any power can be abused. Why blame religion for a shortfalling that extends WAY past the boundaries of religious life?