crumbbum

By posting links to sites representing Jews who are against Zionism, you prove absolutely nothing. The fact that Jews disagree with each other proves nothing. As far as anti-Zionism among Jews goes, it is mostly championed (among Hassidic Jews) by a small minority of the various Hassidic sects- they are against the State of Israel because it is a secular state. They believe that that the only Jewish state should be a religious one, that will be born with the coming of the messiah. The vast majority of Hasidic sect are in fact totally pro-Israel however. As far as leftist Jewish anti-Zionists, so what else is new? Again, you are trying to convince me that there are some Jews that disagree, as though that is conclusive evidence that one side or the other is correct. It isn't. You have demonstrated that there are Jews that disagree with each other. But this is not some kind of revelation to the world, or to me. Showing that there exist Jews who disagree does not make their position correct, or anything other than misguided (or vice versa). I expect to discuss and back up your position itself, because this proves nothing.

Your pictures also prove nothing, whether of the anti-Zionist Jews or of the soldier. First of all it isn't clear exactly where he is pointing the gun, and anyway so what? It looks like he is pointing it to the left, at something out of the frame of the picture. But even if you were to show me a picture of him clearly pointing it at the kid, it would do nothing more than to show that it is an immature and unprofessional soldier on a power trip- this would have absolutely nothing to do with the roots of the conflict, or what should be done about it.

As for your list of Palestinian kids who have been casualties, so what? Again, Palestinian kids get killed in the following ways- when they are used as human shields (like when wanted terrorists surround themselves with them, or when Palestinian snipers shoot from behind them), when they threaten soldiers lives (these "rocks" are often Molotov cocktails- why are kids on the battlefield in the first place Sun-Tzu? Why are they encouraged in their schools, in their media, and by their society to become "martyrs", and to put their lives in danger by confronting armed soldiers? It's not spontaneous, as you seem to believe. If a crowd of screaming kids with rocks surround and starts pelting a soldier with rocks, the soldiers life is often threatened. Rocks crack skulls- the sickening thing is that child soldiers are used in this conflict in order to generate sympathy from suckers like yourself who don't know any better. No Israeli soldier is shooting children for "fun", or ever targeting civilians. In contrast, Palestinians terrorists actively target and deliberately kill innocent children.

And no one's land was stolen. Never was Arab land stolen by the Jewish immigrants- it was purchased legally, all along. The Arabs lost territory in a war of annihilation that they started and lost. Sorry, but I am not too sympathetic. It is worse to lose your life than to lose a house, especially if the land that you owned doesn't have any more significance to you than a temporary residence. And even if they go "way back", it is the fault of the Arab governments who were so disgusted by the thought of a Jewish country in their neighborhood that they would send 5 armies to try and kill every man, woman and child. Land was not stolen in the course of the war. Land was seized when it was a military necessity. Your choice of where your sympathy is going is extremely misguided and totally backwards from a moral perspective.
Unless your next post actually has you taking your own stance, and answering the dozens of valid points that I have brought up, I am through with this discussion. You are burying your head in the sand and tolerating the presence, and advocating the triumph, of hatred and evil in this world. It is because of people like you that this conflict is still going on, and that 7 year old girls are being targeted for death. Please stop before you embarass yourself any more, I don't think you realize what you are advocating, or what kind of people you are sympathizing with. But if you insist on ignoring the facts and the reality, then it is not my responsibility to argue with you. I question whether you are even reading what I post, since you have not had anything to say about the points I have brought up. Again, it is not enough to just show that there are other people who disagree with what I say, or even that there are Jews who disagree. The vast majority of Jews support the right of the State of Israel to exist in safety, and are disgusted by those who deny it's legitimacy and make apologetics for heartless mass murderers, as do I. Please stop dodging the issues and avoiding taking responsibility for your own position. For someone who woke up one day to how evil the Iraqi regime was, I'd like to think that you weren't beyond intellectual honesty regarding this conflict as well- but then again, there is always a double standard when it comes to Israel, or to Jews, throughout history. Good luck in finding a moral compass.

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Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.