Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - changing how you think about afghanistan: a massive leak of military documents.

Slims · 07-31-2010, 06:16 PM

Are you really suggesting that Wikileaks is somehow less responsible for the information they published regarding informants because they asked the US government to basically provide an accurate list of 'spies?'

If the US government provided Wikileaks with an accurate list of 'informants' they would be committing the biggest face palm in the history of espionage. How could anyone consider it a good risk to deliberately provide classified information to Wikileaks? If we did so I would fully expect Wikileaks to publish a 'confirmed list of informants' or some such nonesense....I doubt they could pass up that sort of opportunity to embarrass the government.

Also, by admitting they 'tried' to minimize the damage caused by releasing identifying information about informants Wikileaks is admitting they recognized that such information would lead to trouble....and chose to release it anyway. That is unacceptable.

We have a first amendment right to free speech, but IMHO it does not extend to deliberately seeking out and then publishing classified military documents during an ongoing war which betrays our sources and methods any more than it does to "yelling fire in a crowded theatre."

If they had conducted some sort of investigative journalism and received documents regarding a particular incident or scandal....then fine.

But when an organization coordinates for espionage to take place on a large scale and publishes documents with no journalistic purpose it goes too far.

Their ignorance (or lack of concern) of unit call signs, the intelligence community, and how the war is actually conducted has rendered their 'with holding' process mostly worthless. Sure, they may have with held some reports that would be obviously damaging, but they released thousands of others either through ignorance or deliberate intent.

Here is my short list of what this has (or will) lead too in my community:

1: The death of informants. By providing the information contained in the uncensored reports the Taliban will be able to find and kill many of the people mentioned either directly or indirectly.

2: Inability for intelligence professionals to find new informants now that no one trusts we can keep their freaking names off of the internet.

3: Better exploitation of our weaknesses by the Taliban now that they have hard data indicating which techniques work the best against us.

4: The Taliban will know which of their commanders are being targeted by higher-level entities...Those off the lists will know they can relax a little and those on will know to lay low. It also provides them with a measure of success...The people we want the most are those whom we judge to be the most effective.

5: The Taliban can read the IED reports and determine which IED's were able to cause hull-breach on our MRAP's and which just blew parts off the vehicles....And adjust acordingly. Likewise with the types of devices....for instance they can read about which devices slipped past the mine-rollers and scanners on route clearance patrols.

6: By reading the reports the Taliban can determine where we have been going 'quietly' for ambushes, etc. If we have been doing our jobs well then nobody will know we have been setting up ambushes in particular areas unless we made contact....until the Taliban read about it on Wikileaks.

7: Increased compartmentalization resulting in less information sharing....The government will likely have to change the 'openness' analysts have enjoyed in the classified world relating to their theatre of war. This will cause an increase in friendly-fire incidents as well as make it more difficult to let everybody know the latest-breaking news on the insurgency.

8: The best propaganda tool the Taliban could ever ask-for....I am sure in a few days they will start publishing and translating some of the SITREP's regarding particular villages (and particular village elders) and then using them to further their agendas in those areas.

07-31-2010, 06:16 PM	#51 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Are you really suggesting that Wikileaks is somehow less responsible for the information they published regarding informants because they asked the US government to basically provide an accurate list of 'spies?' If the US government provided Wikileaks with an accurate list of 'informants' they would be committing the biggest face palm in the history of espionage. How could anyone consider it a good risk to deliberately provide classified information to Wikileaks? If we did so I would fully expect Wikileaks to publish a 'confirmed list of informants' or some such nonesense....I doubt they could pass up that sort of opportunity to embarrass the government. Also, by admitting they 'tried' to minimize the damage caused by releasing identifying information about informants Wikileaks is admitting they recognized that such information would lead to trouble....and chose to release it anyway. That is unacceptable. We have a first amendment right to free speech, but IMHO it does not extend to deliberately seeking out and then publishing classified military documents during an ongoing war which betrays our sources and methods any more than it does to "yelling fire in a crowded theatre." If they had conducted some sort of investigative journalism and received documents regarding a particular incident or scandal....then fine. But when an organization coordinates for espionage to take place on a large scale and publishes documents with no journalistic purpose it goes too far. Their ignorance (or lack of concern) of unit call signs, the intelligence community, and how the war is actually conducted has rendered their 'with holding' process mostly worthless. Sure, they may have with held some reports that would be obviously damaging, but they released thousands of others either through ignorance or deliberate intent. Here is my short list of what this has (or will) lead too in my community: 1: The death of informants. By providing the information contained in the uncensored reports the Taliban will be able to find and kill many of the people mentioned either directly or indirectly. 2: Inability for intelligence professionals to find new informants now that no one trusts we can keep their freaking names off of the internet. 3: Better exploitation of our weaknesses by the Taliban now that they have hard data indicating which techniques work the best against us. 4: The Taliban will know which of their commanders are being targeted by higher-level entities...Those off the lists will know they can relax a little and those on will know to lay low. It also provides them with a measure of success...The people we want the most are those whom we judge to be the most effective. 5: The Taliban can read the IED reports and determine which IED's were able to cause hull-breach on our MRAP's and which just blew parts off the vehicles....And adjust acordingly. Likewise with the types of devices....for instance they can read about which devices slipped past the mine-rollers and scanners on route clearance patrols. 6: By reading the reports the Taliban can determine where we have been going 'quietly' for ambushes, etc. If we have been doing our jobs well then nobody will know we have been setting up ambushes in particular areas unless we made contact....until the Taliban read about it on Wikileaks. 7: Increased compartmentalization resulting in less information sharing....The government will likely have to change the 'openness' analysts have enjoyed in the classified world relating to their theatre of war. This will cause an increase in friendly-fire incidents as well as make it more difficult to let everybody know the latest-breaking news on the insurgency. 8: The best propaganda tool the Taliban could ever ask-for....I am sure in a few days they will start publishing and translating some of the SITREP's regarding particular villages (and particular village elders) and then using them to further their agendas in those areas. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 07-31-2010 at 06:22 PM..