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Old 06-07-2010, 04:11 PM   #46 (permalink)
Charlatan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aberkok View Post
So completely transforming the chain of supply and demand to a paradigm which arguably will not even meet the demand is more practical than opting out entirely? How would this be implemented? Would the governments be required to outlaw corn feedlots? I don't think it's any more achievable than getting people off of eating animals. I would hope that at least it becomes half and half.
The feed lots and the corn surplus that created them are a direct product of the US Farm Bill that subsidizes the price of corn and soy. Change the Farm Bill and you will change the way food is grown.

It will not happen over night but it will happen.

The real issue lies in the policy that was designed to create cheap food. We have cheap (very cheap) food and it's killing us and the environment (especially when you factor in all of the negative externalities of the oil industry).

It will be far easier to implement this sort of long term change than it will be to get everyone to stop eating meat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aberkok View Post
I think the discussion should stay on this point: whether the meat production system can change entirely to small farm/grass fed more practically than people just opting out entirely. I personally think it's a pipe dream perpetuated by Michael Pollan et al., in order to soften his message and make it... palatable for people who aren't really interested in actually making any sacrifices. And to that - when I calm down, I could speak of how my life is actually filled with more excess and variety than when I ate meat.
Veganism isn't going to take the world by storm anytime soon. I live in a part of the world where meat *is* expensive and people eat with a portion control that would shock many North Americans. And yet, they still eat meat and fish (a lot of fish).

Someone above mentioned that the millions in Indonesia are the problem... hardly. The average footprint of each of those Indonesians (who eat a lot less meat and way more veg and grains) is infinitesimal compared to the average North American. The gluttony that we see in North America is a recent invention. Prior to the 70s food was not as cheap and not as processed.

We can revert to older ways of doing things but there will be a cost in the price of food. There will be a cost in the reliability of crops (famine sucks). There will be cost in the number of people that can be sustained.

Money needs to be invested in developing sustainable, healthy farming. Farm Bills need to be re-written to bring change to the entire industry. We are already seeing the cost of cheap food in the alarming rise of obesity and various associated health issues.

Ever wonder why poor people in other parts of the world are so skinny and yet they are obese in North America? Think about it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by aberkok View Post
I'm also curious what effects you think the UN's statement will have and if there's a history of them making statements like this.

Points hashed in other threads and maybe not pertinent here: the ethical inconsistencies of meat eating and the "necessity" for humans to eat meat.

1. I think like most UN statements, this will be ignored by the majority of Americans.

2. I don't think there is anything ethically wrong per se with eating meat.
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