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Originally Posted by roachboy
this is both historically wrong and logically incoherent. as a major force in articulating the goals of the american revolution, jefferson is both a figure of the enlightenment, whatever that ultimately means (it's usually synonymous with secularization, which is obviously why the texas school board wants to erase it, replace it with absurdities like calvin and aquinas) AND a significant figure within it. the question of slavery is not a defining feature of enlightenment figures. if it had been, you wouldn't have seen...o i dunno....the european reaction to the haitian revolution when the slave population of haiti had the audacity to imagine that ideas like the universal equality of man referred to them. you don't have the facts straight.
you don't know what sociology is.
you imagine that up to now there are no debates within a school cirriculum about separation of church and state? quite the contrary. what the ultra-right wants is to undermine the idea that there should be such a separation. that's the clear interpretation that one can arrive at simply by juxtaposing information *about which there is no dispute across reports** about what the texas school board did.
like i say, i find most of these moves to be the stuff undertaken by buffoons and because that's the case expect that it'll backfire pretty roundly on not only the school board but on the right in general. knowing that this is coming, it's convenient for the right to begin playing the victim now...o boo hoo poor us we're getting hostile press from these articles that say what the school board actually did.
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Voltaire, François-Marie Arouet 1694 – 1778
Voltaire is one of, if not the, most dominant Enlightenment figures, and his death is sometimes cited as the end of the period. Voltaire was one of several Enlightenment figures (along with Montesquieu, John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau) whose works and ideas influenced important thinkers of both the American and French Revolutions.
Jefferson passed down his ideas, many of them still fresh and controversial (the complete separation of church and state, the suspicion that money would conspire with power to establish a sinister homegrown aristocracy), a few of them outlandish and fanciful (his suggestion that the Constitution be revisited every 19 years so that each generation could establish its own government) and a couple of them that were repugnant even to some folks in his day (for example, his pseudoscientific notion that blacks are the mental inferiors of whites). All of them are impossible to ignore, though, because of the care he took in writing them down.
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Yeah, that’s what a great philosopher of the enlightenment would think….
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The Enlightenment stressed reason, logic, criticism and freedom of thought over dogma, blind faith and superstition.
Logic wasn’t a new invention, having been used by the ancient Greeks, but it was now included in a worldview which argued that empirical observation and the examination of human life could reveal the truth behind human society and self, as well as the universe.
All were deemed to be rational and understandable.
The Enlightenment held that there could be a science of man, and that the history of mankind was one of progress, which could be continued with the right thinking.
Consequently, the Enlightenment also argued that human life and character could be improved through the use of education and reason.
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How reasonable is it to think someone was inferior “mentally” merely because of their skin color, to hate slavery and yet own slaves, to be an opponent of a permanent standing military, and yet development the U.S. Marines.
Jefferson was an amazing man, but in no way does he rank in the leagues of someone like Voltaire. Jefferson was an enigma, contradictory and fabulous at the same time. He was a very learned man.
All the great things we can wish upon this incredible man still don’t add up to placing him with someone like Voltaire and other fundamental concept developers of “The Enlightenment”. He did learn a lot from it though, and I would agree that he should be placed in the “Political Enlightenment” ranks.
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Sociology is the study of society. It is a social science (with which it is informally synonymous) that uses various methods of empirical investigation and critical analysis to develop and refine a body of knowledge and theory about human social activity, often with the goal of applying such knowledge to the pursuit of social welfare.
Sociology is both topically and methodologically a very broad discipline. Its traditional focuses have included social stratification (i.e., class relations), religion, secularization, modernity, culture and deviance, and its approaches have included both qualitative and quantitative research techniques.
As much of what humans do fits under the category of social structure and agency, sociology has gradually expanded its focus to further subjects, such as medical, military and penal institutions, the internet, and even the role of social activity in the development of scientific knowledge.
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As much of what humans DO fits under the category of social structure, this reality of ones social responsibility in their decisions falls under the umbrella of Sociology.
All they are trying to say is that we need to stop blaming society when we make the wrong decisions. Taking responsibility for our actions, regardless of external bullshit from our society, how is that not sociology, read a dictionary.
It is the Science of Social relations. Like, well, I played those videos games that where all about killing, so I killed. Or I heard that music that said life sucks, so I shot my teacher. This would fall under the study of sociology, this is the study of society and why we make the decisions we do.
Wow, I can’t believe your being so petty in your feeble attempt of making me appear ignorant.
---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by dippin
I think it is very interesting that the biggest proponents of an idea of American exceptionalism want to remove the writer of the declaration of independence from a discussion on the Enlightenment.
And considering that conservative movements and even Gingrich and Schlafly became topics, I think it is pretty significant that a discussion on the separation of church and state was deemed not worthy of similar treatment.
And please, point to me the texts in "old sociology" where it is stated that people aren't responsible for their life choices.
The debate over "republic/democracy" and the ban on the word democracy is laughable at best.
Finally, the whole "free enterprise" vs "capitalism" debate is too Orwellian to take seriously.
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What’s with the hating Clérel de Tocqueville. His concept of American Exceptionalism had nothing to do with superiority, more along the lines of unique qualities that had not been so prolific in other parts of the world, that he had known of anyway. He was a liberal; do you lefties not like anyone. He was on you alls side.
Is anybody out there proud of whom we are as a nation anymore or what we have done as a people, and I mean all Americans?
I think I will find a topic with less tyrannical “opponents.”
It amazes me that liberals think conservatives are trying to take over when the loudest voices always seem to be the lefties screaming how WRONG everything is and yet do nothing to make it right but continuing to complain, and point fingers at those trying to get things done. I’m going to go do something more constructive than continue this verbal ping pong game, like wash my dog.
---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------
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Originally Posted by Charlatan
Idyllic, the point isn't that they are require to do so but that many states find it economical sound (i.e. they are small states and can't afford to producer their own text books) to use the Texas textbooks. Their share of the textbook in the free market is large enough that it influences the many other states.
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True.