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Old 04-17-2009, 06:40 AM   #60 (permalink)
dippin
Crazy, indeed
 
Location: the ether
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin View Post
Yeaaaah, I don't like the "but we're all assholes" argument. It doesn't seem very productive given any macro level discussion.

I also don't agree with the "stuff that happened four hundred years ago justifies current behavior of a tiny group of individuals" notion that has popped up in this thread a few times. It's naive at best. It stinks of reparations and Dr. Phil I'm-So-Sorry. I mean, that'd be like saying "well, it's okay, we screwed them" and let African Americans do drive-bys in white neighborhoods because of slavery, crack, and Michael Jackson's bizarre transformation.

Eventually we have to draw a new line in the sand, hold ourselves to a new standard, and punish those who don't live up to it. NES reset button.

Is it fair? Not at all. Turns out life is like that. Sure, white people have fucked up the planet... nobody argues that factoid. But eventually we have to forgive them for even their most evil crimes and focus on the future we have together on "This Island Earth."

We can talk about how horrible the conditions are in Somali and how Navy SEALs just deal with the symptoms of the disease... but let's not promote piracy by confusing it with growing pains or a temper . Symptom or disease, it's all bad and deserves a SR-25 shot just the same.
I don't think you really get it.

First of all, we are not talking about stuff that happened 400 years ago. We are talking about stuff that has happened within the past 50 years and continue to happen to this day.

Second of all, I don't think anyone is advocating any sort of self esteem exercises to deal with this, or any sort of "oh, poor pirates."


The point is much simpler. You reap what you sow. When you keep backing the people who will give you the best deals on their natural resources (or kill the most commies) regardless of hour ruthless they are, dont be surprised when some of that ruthlessness turns against you. And in particular don't go in some self pity parties about how "oh, we just want to help, why can't they greet us as their bestest buddies?"

It's less about being "productive" (although there is a lot of that) and more about how international relations must be understood as they are, as opposed to some self serving, self aggrandizing version where Americans and Europeans are thankless saviors.

Now, why is it productive? Well, maybe some day Western governments will understand why today's foes are yesterday's buddies.
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