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tnt666 · 04-15-2009, 08:34 AM

The first point here is, the vagina, developmentally speaking, is accomplished in two separate acts. The upper and the lower vagina. The upper vagina cells are differenciated at an earlier stage than the lower vagina. The cells of the lower vagina have usually completely positioned themselves by birth but sometimes not. When a baby is born, if the lower vaginal cells (which are located at the skin's surface) have not yet positioned themselves, the vagina appears to not be completely openable. But this is only a temporary matter, in the first years of life, those lower vaginal cells reach their normal developmental end as the vaginal wall. This developmental process is available to anyone who finds a good library and actually reads some developmental anatomy books instead of miscellaneous articles found on the internet.

Second point here, 90% of internet chatter about the 'hymen' is regarding virginity at MARRIAGE. Mostly, marriages occur after 18 years of age, but lets be generous and allow for cultural differences and consider that marriages in certain countries happens to girls as young as 12. That should account for 99% of Earths marriages.

Valid scientific developmental anatomy texts discuss incomplete vaginal development, often referred to as 'hymen' for the periods before birth, neonatal, infant, and very young girls.

Texts revolving around nearly pubescent girls and post pubescent girls and young adults are completely muddled in religious political correctness, so as not to chock religious folks (95% of earthlings). But mostly all texts scientific texts for young ladies says that virginity CAN NOT BE DETERMINED. This is the polite way of not chocking religious folks by saying "well yes, your daughters' hymen is not 'perfect' but we can't be sure either way about rape". If only one of two studies concluded this, there would be matter for discussion of hymens at this age. BUT ALL ARTICLES FOR THESE LATER AGES ARE INCONCLUSIVE (well except in very rare cases of 'imperforate hymen' which as rare as male phimosis). That means that scientifically, nothing can EVER be known about a lady's virginity, so if the vaginal opening is never indicative of anything, BECAUSE IT IS NORMAL FOR A VAGINA TO BE READY FOR PENETRATION, it's its normal developmental course it is because there is simply no point in trying to determine particular configurations, because the vaginal opening is simply a mushy messy opening. Assigning set configurations to a vaginal opening is as pointless as assigning set configurations to the appearance of a frogs' cloaca!

So if people insist on using the word 'hymen' for the incompletely developed vaginal wall cells sometimes apparent at birth, that's one thing I can live with.

But PLEASE DISCONTINUE use of the word 'hymen' for females past 7 years old. By this age, the vagina is open, the shape simply does not matter. Females past childhood with 'crecents' are simply a little behind on the normal developmental process. IT IS NOT THE NORM.

(PS I know you're all going to cry 'references' but extremely slow internet and old computer and traveling requirements don't enable me to carry around reference sheets in my suitcase for strangers I meet on the internet. If I was able to find this in an average library you can too. All I can tell you for this is get OFF the internet and stay away from religious articles, go to the library, as I've done, and actually read books on FETAL DEVELOPMENT. And also take notice of the scant mention of the word 'hymen' in anatomy books.)

The concept of the hymens in females of marrying age is a passé religious concept, same as when the Earth stopped being flat, same as when genetics demonstrated that female animals in nature are not monogamous, that babies are often from different male progenitors, no matter the species.

04-15-2009, 08:34 AM	#35 (permalink)
tnt666 Upright	Scientific vs religious claims The first point here is, the vagina, developmentally speaking, is accomplished in two separate acts. The upper and the lower vagina. The upper vagina cells are differenciated at an earlier stage than the lower vagina. The cells of the lower vagina have usually completely positioned themselves by birth but sometimes not. When a baby is born, if the lower vaginal cells (which are located at the skin's surface) have not yet positioned themselves, the vagina appears to not be completely openable. But this is only a temporary matter, in the first years of life, those lower vaginal cells reach their normal developmental end as the vaginal wall. This developmental process is available to anyone who finds a good library and actually reads some developmental anatomy books instead of miscellaneous articles found on the internet. Second point here, 90% of internet chatter about the 'hymen' is regarding virginity at MARRIAGE. Mostly, marriages occur after 18 years of age, but lets be generous and allow for cultural differences and consider that marriages in certain countries happens to girls as young as 12. That should account for 99% of Earths marriages. Valid scientific developmental anatomy texts discuss incomplete vaginal development, often referred to as 'hymen' for the periods before birth, neonatal, infant, and very young girls. Texts revolving around nearly pubescent girls and post pubescent girls and young adults are completely muddled in religious political correctness, so as not to chock religious folks (95% of earthlings). But mostly all texts scientific texts for young ladies says that virginity CAN NOT BE DETERMINED. This is the polite way of not chocking religious folks by saying "well yes, your daughters' hymen is not 'perfect' but we can't be sure either way about rape". If only one of two studies concluded this, there would be matter for discussion of hymens at this age. BUT ALL ARTICLES FOR THESE LATER AGES ARE INCONCLUSIVE (well except in very rare cases of 'imperforate hymen' which as rare as male phimosis). That means that scientifically, nothing can EVER be known about a lady's virginity, so if the vaginal opening is never indicative of anything, BECAUSE IT IS NORMAL FOR A VAGINA TO BE READY FOR PENETRATION, it's its normal developmental course it is because there is simply no point in trying to determine particular configurations, because the vaginal opening is simply a mushy messy opening. Assigning set configurations to a vaginal opening is as pointless as assigning set configurations to the appearance of a frogs' cloaca! So if people insist on using the word 'hymen' for the incompletely developed vaginal wall cells sometimes apparent at birth, that's one thing I can live with. But PLEASE DISCONTINUE use of the word 'hymen' for females past 7 years old. By this age, the vagina is open, the shape simply does not matter. Females past childhood with 'crecents' are simply a little behind on the normal developmental process. IT IS NOT THE NORM. (PS I know you're all going to cry 'references' but extremely slow internet and old computer and traveling requirements don't enable me to carry around reference sheets in my suitcase for strangers I meet on the internet. If I was able to find this in an average library you can too. All I can tell you for this is get OFF the internet and stay away from religious articles, go to the library, as I've done, and actually read books on FETAL DEVELOPMENT. And also take notice of the scant mention of the word 'hymen' in anatomy books.) The concept of the hymens in females of marrying age is a passé religious concept, same as when the Earth stopped being flat, same as when genetics demonstrated that female animals in nature are not monogamous, that babies are often from different male progenitors, no matter the species.