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Slims · 10-25-2008, 12:42 PM

I thought I had already posted to this thread, but I guess not.

I have some firearms experience so this isn't purely speculation on my part:

If you are willing to take the time to learn how to use a firearm well enough (no need to become an expert) and learn the law well enough to defend yourself without unintentionally committing murder, then go ahead and get a firearm for self defense.

The idea of keeping an 'unloaded prop that looks like a gun' is a very bad one, IMHO. It can only get you in more trouble. If you aren't able to shoot someone you shouldn't point a gun (real or fake) at them, because if they call your bluff or fight because they feel trapped, you are guaranteed to end up dead.

Shotguns, of course, shoot lots of pellets with each shot fired, but at room distances you are likely looking at a pattern about the size of your fist. You don't really need to 'aim' but it is important to 'point' the weapon in the right direction.

I don't recommend practicing with no hearing protection. It will only encourage you to develop bad habits, even if you only fire a couple rounds that way. All the additional noise (especially since you will be a new shooter) will encourage you to start flinching and/or hesitating before pulling the trigger. If you find yourself in a situation where your life really is in danger, you will be so amped up the noise won't even be a factor so don't worry about it in training. Failure drills are important, but shotguns jam very rarely, and I would put most of your time into learning how to shoot and manipulate the weapon better. Most pump shotguns jam because people 'shortstroke' the pump, and learning how vigorously to stroke it (I know there's a joke there somewhere) takes practice.

I agree with Will that racking a shotgun should not be used as a means of deterring a criminal, though it is probably necessary as most people choose not to store their shotguns chambered. It is easy to chamber a round quietly simply by being less aggressive with the pump. You should rely on your voice to warn an intruder you are armed, and then only when it is appropriate.

Will: If you are breaking into a house and you hear someone rack a round into a shotgun, you are not going to have a target to 'open fire' at unless you can see them, in which case you could see their shotgun, and they could see your weapon as well.

Which firearm? A shotgun is a fantastic choice. For the average joe it is probably the best all around option and you are right to be considering one. But it doesn't need to be fancy. I strongly recommend a simple Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 without any bells or whistles. I also don't think you need a riot shotgun with the barrel shroud, extended tube, side saddle, etc. It isn't appropriate unless you plan on A: shooting bad guys until the barrel gets to hot to handle due to all your lightning quick reloads, etc. and B: taking the time to really learn how to use a shotgun. Mossberg makes a fantastic package, I forget what it is called, but for about $350 you can buy a mossberg shotgun with both an 18.5" security barrel, and a choked field barrel it gives you everything you need to defend your house (6 rounds of 12 gauge) as well as a barrel you can use for skeet or hunting. Make sure your shotgun has a buttstock (pistol grips are junk and take a LOT of practice to be any good at). Whatever you decide, remember KISS, at least until you get some experience with firearms.

Despite popular conception, 5.56, Buckshot, and most pistol rounds happily penetrate wall, after wall, after wall. If over penetration is a big issue, then use turkey rounds (or something similar), but be aware that while they will do a lot of damage to someone, most of it will be shallow, and they may not be as effective as buckshot at stopping an attack. Other options include reduced recoil tactical buckshot (it allows quick follow up shots and less penetration), or frangible slugs.

Oh, and even the biggest of pistol rounds pale in comparison to the power produced by a standard 12 Ga. Slug. I know using a Desert Eagle is cool and all (even though nobody who actually uses guns for a living will even consider one), but it is still a pistol, which shoots a much smaller round out of a shorter barrel, and is hand fired.

10-25-2008, 12:42 PM	#64 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	I thought I had already posted to this thread, but I guess not. I have some firearms experience so this isn't purely speculation on my part: If you are willing to take the time to learn how to use a firearm well enough (no need to become an expert) and learn the law well enough to defend yourself without unintentionally committing murder, then go ahead and get a firearm for self defense. The idea of keeping an 'unloaded prop that looks like a gun' is a very bad one, IMHO. It can only get you in more trouble. If you aren't able to shoot someone you shouldn't point a gun (real or fake) at them, because if they call your bluff or fight because they feel trapped, you are guaranteed to end up dead. Shotguns, of course, shoot lots of pellets with each shot fired, but at room distances you are likely looking at a pattern about the size of your fist. You don't really need to 'aim' but it is important to 'point' the weapon in the right direction. I don't recommend practicing with no hearing protection. It will only encourage you to develop bad habits, even if you only fire a couple rounds that way. All the additional noise (especially since you will be a new shooter) will encourage you to start flinching and/or hesitating before pulling the trigger. If you find yourself in a situation where your life really is in danger, you will be so amped up the noise won't even be a factor so don't worry about it in training. Failure drills are important, but shotguns jam very rarely, and I would put most of your time into learning how to shoot and manipulate the weapon better. Most pump shotguns jam because people 'shortstroke' the pump, and learning how vigorously to stroke it (I know there's a joke there somewhere) takes practice. I agree with Will that racking a shotgun should not be used as a means of deterring a criminal, though it is probably necessary as most people choose not to store their shotguns chambered. It is easy to chamber a round quietly simply by being less aggressive with the pump. You should rely on your voice to warn an intruder you are armed, and then only when it is appropriate. Will: If you are breaking into a house and you hear someone rack a round into a shotgun, you are not going to have a target to 'open fire' at unless you can see them, in which case you could see their shotgun, and they could see your weapon as well. Which firearm? A shotgun is a fantastic choice. For the average joe it is probably the best all around option and you are right to be considering one. But it doesn't need to be fancy. I strongly recommend a simple Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 without any bells or whistles. I also don't think you need a riot shotgun with the barrel shroud, extended tube, side saddle, etc. It isn't appropriate unless you plan on A: shooting bad guys until the barrel gets to hot to handle due to all your lightning quick reloads, etc. and B: taking the time to really learn how to use a shotgun. Mossberg makes a fantastic package, I forget what it is called, but for about $350 you can buy a mossberg shotgun with both an 18.5" security barrel, and a choked field barrel it gives you everything you need to defend your house (6 rounds of 12 gauge) as well as a barrel you can use for skeet or hunting. Make sure your shotgun has a buttstock (pistol grips are junk and take a LOT of practice to be any good at). Whatever you decide, remember KISS, at least until you get some experience with firearms. Despite popular conception, 5.56, Buckshot, and most pistol rounds happily penetrate wall, after wall, after wall. If over penetration is a big issue, then use turkey rounds (or something similar), but be aware that while they will do a lot of damage to someone, most of it will be shallow, and they may not be as effective as buckshot at stopping an attack. Other options include reduced recoil tactical buckshot (it allows quick follow up shots and less penetration), or frangible slugs. Oh, and even the biggest of pistol rounds pale in comparison to the power produced by a standard 12 Ga. Slug. I know using a Desert Eagle is cool and all (even though nobody who actually uses guns for a living will even consider one), but it is still a pistol, which shoots a much smaller round out of a shorter barrel, and is hand fired. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 10-25-2008 at 12:49 PM..