Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Obama & Dem Leaders Act Same As Bush: Lying Corporatist, Stealing Our Bill of Rights

dc_dux · 06-21-2008, 01:10 PM

host....i think you are overstating your case for your objections, at least based on my understanding of the FISA amendments the House passed.

From the time FISA was enacted in 1978 through 2001, there was little if any objection to the law from presidents or Congress of either party....or from few if any advocacy groups.

Then, from 2002-2006, Bush grossly abused and/or circumvented the law...claiming that the post 9/11 "Authorization for Use of Military Force" (AUMF) passed by Congress gave him the unilateral authority to do whatever he damn well pleased to whomever he damn well wanted.

The first and most important thing these new amendments accomplish is to codify in no uncertain terms that FISA provides the sole legal authority to undertake wiretapping (or other electronic surveillance) on foreign nationals...a president can no longer claim that an AUMF gives him the authority to bypass FISA.

It reaffirms and goes a bit further than the original act by requiring the DNI and the AG to certify in writing, under oath, and with supporting affidavits that for each (warrantless) wiretap of foreign nationals outside the country, that it will not include American citizens on the other end. Wiretaps of foreign nationals inside the US require a warrant and also cannot include US citizens on the other end w/o specific reasonable cause.

It also reaffirms and expands prohibitions on reverse targeting..where a foreign national can be surveilled for the purpose wiretapping Americans.

And it provides for greater Congressional oversight of the FISA warrant process than previously existed.

The issue for many on the far left is the retroactive immunity for telecomms. Like you, I would prefer that it had been included, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. The fact is, the class actions suits against the telecomms would likely never have worked through the courts anyway - Bush would have asserted executive privilege or national security on requests for documents and the telecomms would have claimed that w/o documents from the gov, they would be restrained from conducting a reasonable defense.

The latest amendments for the most part simply restore the orginal intent of FISA. Where it expands the coverage of FISA, it also expands accountability and oversight. Its not my preferred bill, but for the most part, it is an acceptable bill....thats how compromise works.

06-21-2008, 01:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	host....i think you are overstating your case for your objections, at least based on my understanding of the FISA amendments the House passed. From the time FISA was enacted in 1978 through 2001, there was little if any objection to the law from presidents or Congress of either party....or from few if any advocacy groups. Then, from 2002-2006, Bush grossly abused and/or circumvented the law...claiming that the post 9/11 "Authorization for Use of Military Force" (AUMF) passed by Congress gave him the unilateral authority to do whatever he damn well pleased to whomever he damn well wanted. The first and most important thing these new amendments accomplish is to codify in no uncertain terms that FISA provides the sole legal authority to undertake wiretapping (or other electronic surveillance) on foreign nationals...a president can no longer claim that an AUMF gives him the authority to bypass FISA. It reaffirms and goes a bit further than the original act by requiring the DNI and the AG to certify in writing, under oath, and with supporting affidavits that for each (warrantless) wiretap of foreign nationals outside the country, that it will not include American citizens on the other end. Wiretaps of foreign nationals inside the US require a warrant and also cannot include US citizens on the other end w/o specific reasonable cause. It also reaffirms and expands prohibitions on reverse targeting..where a foreign national can be surveilled for the purpose wiretapping Americans. And it provides for greater Congressional oversight of the FISA warrant process than previously existed. The issue for many on the far left is the retroactive immunity for telecomms. Like you, I would prefer that it had been included, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. The fact is, the class actions suits against the telecomms would likely never have worked through the courts anyway - Bush would have asserted executive privilege or national security on requests for documents and the telecomms would have claimed that w/o documents from the gov, they would be restrained from conducting a reasonable defense. The latest amendments for the most part simply restore the orginal intent of FISA. Where it expands the coverage of FISA, it also expands accountability and oversight. Its not my preferred bill, but for the most part, it is an acceptable bill....thats how compromise works. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 06-21-2008 at 03:02 PM..