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Originally Posted by Tophat665
Actually, one of pan's two core arguments - if I am correctly apprehending it - to wit - that whoever has the whitehouse next is in an impossible situation, cannot but fail miserably, and will sour the country for their party for the next n*4 years where n>2 - is one of the ones that really scares me. I am seriously worried that whoever takes the whitehouse next, regardless of any actions they take or fail to take, will be presiding over a trainwreck of Hooverian proportions.
So the question is, do we want a young man in full possession of his faculties, or another case of impending alzheimers. Reagan got away with it only because he was losing his mind at the right time for the policies of everyone president from Truman forward to come to fruition. A guy with a slim chance of doing the right thing or a guy with no chance at all. Is the cup half empty or half full if the liquid is cyanide?
That said, his second core argument - that Obama scares him - largely because of 1) pandering and 2) Rev. Wright - is pure twaddle.
All politicians pander. It's a core job function. You might hold it against Obama more because he presents himself as above it, but you'd be naive to believe that in the first place.
I think he handled the Rev. Wright thing pretty well. Black ministers, in my limited experience say some crazy, racist shit until they see the white guy about 10 rows back. The issue is that their racism is based on a not unfounded, historically speaking, assumption that the man (that would be you and me) is trying to keep the black man down. I don't know about you, but I am only trying to keep the crazies down regardless of color. Obama explained at length his view on race relations and correctly identified the problem. When Wright gave him problems after the speech, he kicked him to the curb. I give him credit for giving his friend one chance to make it right. This is high stakes politics, after all. (And if you have a problem with having friends who have some fucked up repugnant viewpoints, well, I'm glad you have enough friends that you can demand perfection. I don't think that is the case with most people.)
You may have noticed today that there was a 5-4 decision on whether Habeus Corpus was a fundamental right in SCOTUS today. 4 years of McCain and that could well go the other way. That will be what he is forced to pay for evangelical votes - another Scalia clone.
I'm sure that did absolutely nothing to change your mind, yet I feel better for saying it anyway.
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Thank you for the respect of a true discussion of my ideas instead of just telling me how wrong I am. I appreciate that.
I will say that the first core you have pretty nailed down. I see serious problems on the horizon and we need a man that will either find ways to try to change things and inspire hope or a sacrificial lamb. I choose the sacrificial lamb because I don't see Obama changing things, I actually fear they would be worse with him.
The second isn't just Wright, it's Obama's grandmother, his relationship with Rezko, Ace made some good points in this aspect. the fact that he is relatively an unknown.... I don't buy all the hype. Someone somewhere is pulling his strings.... he is a puppet to someone.
In 1980.... the GOP was all excited about Ronald Reagan.... turns out he was a front man, a puppet. I see Obama much the same way, only not in anyway shape or form good for this country.
If he surrounds himself with a racist, a mobster, throws his grandmother under the bus and so on.... then says these are people he didn't truly know...... this shows me a man who accepts no responsibility for the people he calls friends. So then the question begs, what kind of people will he put into his cabinet? Carter was very similar, but at least he didn't say, "I didn't know", he accepted responsibility for his choices, THAT IS THE SIGN OF A LEADER.... I do not believe based on what I have seen, read, heard from Obama himself in some instances... that he would do the same. The buck won't stop with him, he'll pass it off anyway he can to whomever happens to be in his way. The man is colder that Bill Clinton in that aspect. That frightens me.
And again, if I am wrong and in 4 years Obama turns out to be the messiah, I'll admit I was wrong and vote for him with gusto..... but if he isn't and things do get worse and he is among the worst rated presidents (Hooveresque) then I can rest easy with my conscience.... even if I will be homeless.
So there ya have it.