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Originally Posted by loquitur
will, your'e avoiding the question. What noncapitalist society has produced the good that capitalist society has? France and Finland aren't socialist economies, they're regulated capitalistic ones. France's experiment with socialism - nationalized industry and such - under Mitterand was a disaster. You can look it up.
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They're more socialist than we are, by quite a bit, which supports my suggestion that the best place to be is partly capitalist and partially socialist.
A strictly socialist society is just as doomed as a strictly libertarian society, at least with the population sizes in question.
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Originally Posted by loquitur
Economic growth is what has raised the floor of poverty, Will. Not shuffling assets around, which is all socialism ever has done or can do. And you don't get economic growth in any appreciable degree without profits.
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I'm not saying it doesn't work when you're in the shitter, but libertarian, free market capitalism needs balance when you're economy is of a certain size or larger, otherwise you start leaning towards a corporatocracy. When the government can't regulate corporations, they tend to do whatever they want. How long did big tobacco refuse to admit their product was dangerous after they figured it out? For that matter, how often does even a crappy and largely ineffective government agency like the FDA save lives?
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Originally Posted by loquitur
That stuff you posted about the UK and Japan was nonsensical. The UK was totally sclerotic as a result of socialism until Thatcher broke the system at the end of the 1970s. And Japan was bombed back to the stone age in WW2 - it had no place to go but up. But once it recovered, the socialism caught up with it and it has been in recession for what, 15 years now? Geez Louise, Will, don't just make stuff up. "Simple economics"? I'd suggest you go read Adam Smith if you want simple economics. Supply and demand still rule.
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How about this:
- Les Trente Glorieuses. In the years after WWII, France saw economic growth and prosperity. This growth coincided with incredible and unprecedented establishment of worker's rights and unions, which are more socialist.