View Single Post
Old 04-14-2008, 04:58 AM   #66 (permalink)
tisonlyi
Nothing
 
tisonlyi's Avatar
 
Biofuels are an enormous con.

<a href="http://www.physorg.com/news4942.html">They need more input energy than they give in output energy</a>

Crops before WW2 were not produced with the kinds of extremely intensive (petroleum derived) pesticide and fertilizers regimes that have become ever more popular since the end of the war. IIRC crops produced in that manner can be sustainable for biofuels in and of themselves, without taking into consideration the deforestation, etc that normally goes before... So we need to green the Sahara, basically... or wait for it to green itself?

I've read better sources on this issue, but a quick googling gives me this document whose last paragraph tells you that, for US on-farm production in 1977, there were 10 calories input for every 1 calorie output in the food supply. (The second to last paragraph is interesting as well - marketing food consumes 1.8% of total US consumption of energy??? hmm. o_O)

10:1 is a very much understated figure, if memory serves. Figures I've read elsewhere range from 30:1 to 55:1.

Biofuels need enormous amounts of fertilizers and pesticides to be grown in an industrialised manner. The inputs and outputs don't work... Umm.. didn't that even get into an episode of The West Wing once? (The Corn Pledge?)

Oh yes! King Corn - hardly the best of sources, but still.

The price of oil goes up, the price of pesticides, fertilizers and the fuel to move produce around goes up, hence the price of basic commodities sky-rockets... Including... Biofuels!

Anything that depends on cheap oil in it's production cannot be an alternative to cheap oil.

All of this, really, is back to Peak Oil.

Solar, wind and nuclear - mostly nucular ( ) as it stands - are the only options available to conserve the remaining cheaply accessible fossil fuels we have as a means of producing plastics, fertilizers and pretty much all of our oil-dependent products... won't happen though.
__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--
tisonlyi is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360