Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - "They" don't hate us... they believe almost the same thing:

roachboy · 03-10-2008, 07:37 AM

how about this, then:

it is self-evident that there are a huge number of belligerent statements about others all the way through the biblical old testament. it would be a doable but tedious exercise to make lists of them, take them out of context and paste them up here. it is, as they say, a no-brainer.

but doing that says nothing---and i mean NOTHING--about modalities of actual belief or practice.

even without going into any specifics, this should be obvious: you are talking both in the case of christianity and islam about belief systems that incorporate HUGE populations--HUGE ranges of belief--and on that basis alone ANY sequence of sentence ripped from EITHER the bible or the koran is not going to provide you with a basis for saying anything--except that the adopting of attitudes articulated through these sentence is a POSSIBILITY. but that means nothing--not really: it doesn't explain how or why these possibilities might be taken up by particular individuals or organizations and not others--it doesn't say anything about context, whether anti-imperialist politics might get routed through these types of statements for tactical purposes for example. so these lists say NOTHING about how or why these possibilities might or might not be operationalised--so they say NOTHING about outcomes. and these lists do not even get CLOSE to enabling you to talk about the range of beliefs within communities--what they do is to enable a superficial kind of politics of gesture. that's it. this is obvious--self-evident--if you think about what you're doing at all.

sadly, this cuts in all directions: it is a problem for the thread as well.

so these lists, then, are therapeutic exercises that are entirely about the viewpoint of the person who assembles them---and in alot of cases about the weakness of the thinking behind that assemblage--so the lists, when you evaluate them, rebound onto questions of intent behind their assemblage.

and this is where the trouble lay, and this is why i say--and stand by--the claim that no. 3 is bottom-of-the-barrel tripe (like that better?)

and it is not obvious that islam entails the same kind of belief that christianity does, and so you are wrong even in assuming that it does.
it is really simple to find this out.
all you need is a little curiousity about modes of being that are not yours.

and i stand by the claim that the fact you feel authorized to post about something you neither know nor particularly seem to care about knowing is an embarrassment. but post away---it's your prerogative: i'm the last person to get in the way of that.

03-10-2008, 07:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	how about this, then: it is self-evident that there are a huge number of belligerent statements about others all the way through the biblical old testament. it would be a doable but tedious exercise to make lists of them, take them out of context and paste them up here. it is, as they say, a no-brainer. but doing that says nothing---and i mean NOTHING--about modalities of actual belief or practice. even without going into any specifics, this should be obvious: you are talking both in the case of christianity and islam about belief systems that incorporate HUGE populations--HUGE ranges of belief--and on that basis alone ANY sequence of sentence ripped from EITHER the bible or the koran is not going to provide you with a basis for saying anything--except that the adopting of attitudes articulated through these sentence is a POSSIBILITY. but that means nothing--not really: it doesn't explain how or why these possibilities might be taken up by particular individuals or organizations and not others--it doesn't say anything about context, whether anti-imperialist politics might get routed through these types of statements for tactical purposes for example. so these lists say NOTHING about how or why these possibilities might or might not be operationalised--so they say NOTHING about outcomes. and these lists do not even get CLOSE to enabling you to talk about the range of beliefs within communities--what they do is to enable a superficial kind of politics of gesture. that's it. this is obvious--self-evident--if you think about what you're doing at all. sadly, this cuts in all directions: it is a problem for the thread as well. so these lists, then, are therapeutic exercises that are entirely about the viewpoint of the person who assembles them---and in alot of cases about the weakness of the thinking behind that assemblage--so the lists, when you evaluate them, rebound onto questions of intent behind their assemblage. and this is where the trouble lay, and this is why i say--and stand by--the claim that no. 3 is bottom-of-the-barrel tripe (like that better?) and it is not obvious that islam entails the same kind of belief that christianity does, and so you are wrong even in assuming that it does. it is really simple to find this out. all you need is a little curiousity about modes of being that are not yours. and i stand by the claim that the fact you feel authorized to post about something you neither know nor particularly seem to care about knowing is an embarrassment. but post away---it's your prerogative: i'm the last person to get in the way of that. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 03-10-2008 at 07:43 AM..