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Banned
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Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
From all the posts you have ever posted here, I don't see where you don't think we are in crisis.
If your friends are reflections of your thinking here, then no I don't have your definition of "reasonable" muslim friends. I have a good number of mulsim friends mostly coworkers who fled their homelands because of the atrocities they felt as injustices from their respective governments. I have an Iranian aunt who came over before the Ayatollah Khomeni decided to take the American embassy workers hostages.
Many countries have odd laws to discourage those that are considered outside of their scope. I don't find Israel to be any different. I can own land in Iceland, but I cannot own farm land. I cannot own a business in Iceland unless I have a citizen as a partner. I cannot own land in the land of my ancestors because I'm not a citizen. I cannot work in the land of my ancestors because I'm not European.
Again, you don't find any correllation to the high price of oil to the finite amounts produced and the increased demand of China and India as industrialized nations that require more oil than decades before? You point to the Jews and Israel as the reason?
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No, I point to the policy of constant threat of pre-emptive attack of countries in the ME as the counter productive US policy. I think that policy is much more in what likud thinks is in it's interest, than it could possibly be, in ours.
The "crisis" is in the deterioration of the relationships between the US and much of the rest of the world, and it's effects on the purchasing power of the US dollar. As disturbingly, the deeds of the US government stand in direct contradiction to the words...words that claim a strong embrace and promotion of democratic principles.
How did the US political attitude about zionism evolve from here:
Quote:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/34900/page/1
A Case of Courage
Exclusive Book Excerpt: Truman and the birth of Israel.
By Michael Beschloss | Newsweek Web Exclusive
http://www.newsweek.com/id/34900/page/3
In 1917, the genial, quiet Private Jacobson clerked in an Army canteen at Camp Doniphan, Oklahoma, under Lieutenant Harry Truman. Truman wrote his girlfriend, Bess Wallace, back in Independence, that he had a "Jew clerk" running his canteen and that Jacobson was "a crackerjack." After fighting the Germans in France, the two friends opened a men's store in Kansas City, with Harry as salesman-bookkeeper, Eddie as buyer and many old Battery D pals as customers. Then came the postwar depression. "I lost all I had and all I could borrow," said Truman. "Our creditors drove Eddie into bankruptcy, but I became a public official, and they couldn't do that to me."
The friendship survived. during senator Truman's visits to Kansas City, the ex-partners drank bourbon, played poker, told off-color stories and joked about "losing our asses in that store." But the friendship did not include their wives and families. Jacobson's wife, Bluma, recalled that Bess Truman's Wallace relatives were "aristocracy in those parts" and that "the Trumans couldn't afford to have Jews at their house."
In the summer of 1947, Jacobson sat down at Kansas City's Hotel Muehlebach with Granoff and Frank Goldman, the national president of B'nai B'rith. He told them he would never ask Truman for a personal favor, but would "always be glad" to discuss with him "my suffering people across the seas." He had endless faith in Harry's "kindly heart." Granoff said the problem was getting more Jewish refugees into Palestine. Eddie said, "Harry Truman will do what's right if he knows all the facts ... But I'm no Zionist, so first I need the facts from you."
Arriving in Washington, Eddie called the president's appointments secretary, Matt Connelly, who gibed, "What the hell are you doing here without his permission?" When Jacobson and Granoff were ushered into the Oval Office, Truman said, "Sit down, you bastards!" As Eddie recalled, after Truman signed dollar bills for their children and asked about business in Kansas City, he and the president talked "takhles"—a Yiddish term that means "with serious purpose."
Making their case for a Jewish homeland, Granoff and Jacobson insisted they would never ask Truman to act against America's best interests. "You guys wouldn't get to the front gate if I thought any differently," said Truman. "You bastards are the only ones that never tried to embarrass me in any way."....
http://www.newsweek.com/id/34900/page/4
....In October 1947, Jacobson implored the president to back a U.N. committee's proposal for Jewish and Arab states in Palestine. He wrote, "Harry, my people need help and I am appealing on you to help them." <h3>Loy Henderson, assistant secretary of State, warned that if the U.S. had anything to do with founding a Jewish state, it would jeopardize oil supplies in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and the "whole Arab world" would become the "enemy" of the United States.</h3>
The president endorsed Palestine's partition, but warned that the U.S. would not give money to a Jewish state, and that it lacked deployable forces to defend it from the Arab armies. Furious that Truman had overruled him, Henderson tried to whittle down the territory allotted for the Jews. He argued that the town of Jaffa was "essentially Arab" and that Arab herdsmen required the Negev desert for "seasonal grazing." But after making it into the Oval Office, Chaim Weizmann, chief of the World Zionist Organization, unfolded maps and persuaded Truman that losing the Negev would undermine a Jewish state by blocking vital access to the Red Sea.
In late November 1947, at the U.N.'s temporary quarters in a converted skating rink at Flushing Meadows, Queens, Palestine's partition came up for a vote by the General Assembly. Arguing that U.S. prestige would suffer if allies like the Philippines and Haiti were seen voting against it, Clark Clifford persuaded Truman to let his aides lobby for partition. As Clifford recalled, "I kept the ramrod up the State Department's butt."
In January 1948, Truman's secretary of Defense, James Forrestal, told him that enforcing partition might require as many as 160,000 American ground troops. Loy Henderson proposed that since partition could not be imposed without a military commitment that Truman would not make, the U.N. should govern Palestine as a trustee when Britain withdrew in May. <h3>Horrified that Truman seemed to be wavering on a Jewish state, Chaim Weizmann rushed to New York, hoping to see the president. But Truman told his aides he had seen enough Zionists: "The Jews are so emotional, and the Arabs are so difficult to talk with that it is almost impossible to get anything done." B'nai B'rith's Frank Goldman called Eddie Jacobson in Kansas City. The president was "washing his hands" of Palestine: "You must help us, Eddie."
Jacobson wired Truman, "I have asked very little in the way of favors during all our years of friendship, but I am begging you to see Dr. Weizmann as soon as possible." Tired of what he called Zionist "badgering," the president wired Eddie that the Palestine problem was probably "not solvable." Refusing to give up, Jacobson flew to Washington in hopes of changing his mind, and when Matt Connelly let Jacobson into the Oval Office, Connelly warned him not to mention Palestine. Truman told his friend, "Eddie, I know what you are here for, and the answer is no."
Surprised at his own "nerve," Jacobson asked the president to reconsider, which touched off an explosion. Truman bellowed that the "Eastern Jews" had "slandered and libeled" him since the moment he became president. He didn't want to discuss "Palestine or the Jews or the Arabs or the British." Let the United Nations handle it. Tears rolled down Eddie's face. He felt "shocked" and "crushed" that his "dear friend" was "as close to being an anti-Semite as a man could possibly be."</h3>
http://www.newsweek.com/id/34900/page/5
Jacobson's eye caught a replica of the courthouse statue in Jackson County, Missouri, that Truman had worked so hard to build. Improvising, he said, "Harry, all your life, you have had a hero. You are probably the best-read man in America on the life of Andrew Jackson." He recalled Truman sitting in a corner of their failed store, "reading books and papers and pamphlets" on Old Hickory. "Well, Harry, I too have a hero—a man I never met, but who is, I think, the greatest Jew who ever lived ... Chaim Weizmann. He is a very sick man ... but he traveled thousands of miles just to see you ... Now you refuse to see him just because you are insulted by some of our American Jewish leaders—even though you know that Weizmann had absolutely nothing to do with these insults ... It doesn't sound like you, Harry ... I thought you could take this stuff they have been handing out."
Deep in thought, Truman drummed his desktop, then swiveled in his chair to gaze at the South Grounds, turning green with spring. For what seemed "like centuries," Eddie held his breath. Then the president spun back around and uttered the most "endearing" words Jacobson had ever heard him speak: "You win, you bald-headed son-of-a-bitch! I will see him."
On Thursday, March 18, after dark, Chaim Weizmann was slipped into the Oval Office. The president could never pronounce Weizmann's first name, so he called him "Cham." Truman pledged to "press forward with partition." Worried about leaks, he did not even tell his secretary of State about Weizmann's visit.
The next day, Truman's U.N. ambassador, Warren Austin, seemed to reverse U.S. policy when he told the Security Council that since peaceful partition into Jewish and Arab states seemed impossible, the United States now believed that the U.N. should rule Palestine as the world's trustee. Informed that Austin had just trampled the president's private promise to Weizmann, Eddie Jacobson couldn't believe it: "I was as dazed as a man could be." Feeling "physically sick," he collapsed into bed for two days.
Unfolding his Saturday morning newspapers, Truman was incensed to read about his administration's "badly bungled" somersault on partition. "This morning I find that the State Dept. has reversed my Palestine policy," Truman told his diary. "The first I know about it is what I see in the papers! Isn't that hell? I'm now in the position of a liar and a double-crosser. I've never felt so in my life." Truman inveighed against the "people on the 3rd and 4th levels of the State Dept. who have always wanted to cut my throat." The president called in Clark Clifford: "How could this have happened? I assured Chaim Weizmann I would stick to it. He must think I am a s--t-ass ... My God, how can I ever face Weizmann again?"
Recovering in kansas City from what he called "Black Friday," Eddie Jacobson took a call from Chaim Weizmann, who told him not to "feel badly." Privately, Weizmann had been reassured that the president hadn't known of Ambassador Austin's speech in advance and that his commitment to partition still stood. Weizmann told Eddie he was now "the most important single man in the world. You have a job to do, so keep the White House doors open." Jacobson felt "encouraged" to "go on with the work which Fate put on my shoulders."....
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/ww1/weizmann.html
<img src="http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/ww1/images/weizmann.jpg">
1915 - During his research at Manchester University on synthetic rubber, he discovered the fermentation process to produce acetone, a vital ingredient for cordite. His discovery of the acid-resistant microorganism Clostridium Acetobutylicum would be used in England and the United States to make smokeless powder, but later would be the key to the discovery of penicillin.
1916 - The secret Sykes-Picot Agreement was signed May 16 carving up the Mideast between England and France. Weizmann had been influential in the diplomacy leading to the agreement, insuring that Palestine would be internationalized and later become the Zionist state. Many British Jews opposed transferring national allegiance from Great Britain to Palestine during wartime. Weizmann therefore urged Great Britain to publicly support Palestine, and his greatest achievement in the Zionist movement was the alliance with the British government that culminated in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.
1917 - The Balfour Declaration of Nov. 2 declared in public "His Majesty's Government views with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."
1919 - Weizmann led the Zionist delegation to the Paris Peace Conference.
1921 - Visited the United States with Albert Einstein, was elected president of the World Zionist Organization, but American Zionists such as Louis Brandeis and Rabbi Stephen S. Wise who sought complete autonomy for a homeland opposed Weizmann's alliance with Britain and European Jews.
1930 - Weizmann resigned his position as president of the Zionist Organization to protest British treatment of Jews in Palestine, but still hoped his alliance with the British would lead to a homeland. Rabbi Wise however, told Weizmann the next year, ''You have sat too long at English feasts.''
1937 - Weizmann supported the Peel Plan for a partition of the mandate, giving Zionists a homeland of 2500 sq. miiles.
1944 - Weizmann opposed the "cancer" of the radical anti-British terror campaign of the Irgun Zvai Leumi fighters, calling its leader Menachem Begin ''a megalomaniac suffering from a Messianic complex.''
1945 - After the end of the war, Weizmann urged the British to decide the issue of a Jewish homeland
1946 - In December, Weizmann gave his last speech to a Zionist Congress, and was provoked by a heckler to declare again his opposition to Zionist extremists demanding immediate statehood or war: ''Would that my tongue were tipped with flame, and my soul touched with the strength of our great prophets, when they warned against following the paths of Babylon and Egypt which always led Jewry to failure. I fear that we stand before such dangers today . . . Go and re-read Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. . . . Zion will be redeemed through righteousness, and not by any other means.''
1948 - Israel declared its independence.
1949 - Weizmann became the first president of Israel.
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....to here:
Quote:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...56C0A96E958260
Aides Disavow Mrs. Clinton on Mideast
By JAMES BENNET
Published: May 8, 1998
White House aides today disowned comments by Hillary Rodham Clinton about the need for a Palestinian state and insisted that she was speaking only for herself.
Mrs. Clinton's remark came when she told a group of Arab and Israeli teen-agers that creating a state of Palestine was ''very important for the broader goal of peace in the Middle East.''
With that statement, which was made in answer to a question, Mrs. Clinton stepped into a foreign policy minefield that American policymakers have always shied away from. The United States has never endorsed creating a Palestinian state, although President Carter set off a controversy in 1977 by calling for a Palestinian ''homeland.''.....
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...when did we get to a point where Americans were accused of anti-semitism, for even discussing the appropriateness of the current level of zionist influence on the S government and it's foreign policy?
Last edited by host; 11-04-2007 at 05:30 PM..
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