Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lady Sage
I think when the man in Italy is found guilty, we should give him over to the women of his culture so that they can take out all of their frustrations on his hog tied gagged body.
Thats fair enough.
|
Your answer to the murderer's cultural/religious "vigilante justice" is state-sponsored "vigilante justice"- and not just murder, but torture beforehand as well? That's pretty much the exact opposite of countering this atrocity with reason. That's countering one act of stupidity with another, even worse one. There's not even any "eye for an eye" argument there... that's just a revenge killing. If we expect people to not take others' lives over personal feelings, it is hardly productive to sponsor public revenge killing.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mixedmedia
Well, to take it back a little closer to OP-ville, I will agree with IL in that, even though this is a horrible, deplorable thing that is not acceptable under any circumstances, it is an act that is so far removed from Western cultural mores that we cannot relate to it on our terms. This is a practice that has been prevalent not only in Muslim society, but Hindu, as well.
|
To say that the customs of another culture which indicate the killing of another human being are not capable of our understanding is shortsighted. Just because we are not of their upbringing, values, morality, religion, etc., does not mean that we do not all possess the simple capacity for the basic value of human life.
You also cannot cop-out to this behavior by admonishing it first and then just as quickly taking back any actual judgment of it, as something we can't understand, in the same sentence. It seems like a very passive-aggressive way of indicating disagreement without
actually committing to a negative opinion of others' beliefs.
Killing another person is wrong- period, end of story, checkmate, BINGO, gin, and Yahtzee- and
no human being on the planet, regardless of who they are, is exempt from that most basic of ideals. The guys knew they were wrong in doing it, they are just hiding behind what they call their beliefs to justify their uncontrolled, racist rage.
Saying we cannot understand the religious/cultural implications in what has happened is akin to dismissing our ability to judge the circa 1800's to early 1900's often-performed tradition of hanging black people as being unfamiliar with the culture of the American racist in that time period. Strong religious, or cultural, personal beliefs are not ever grounds for murder, and that's that.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mixedmedia
What needs to change is people's attitudes and just like we haven't been able to stop people with force from beating and killing their children in this country, for much less banal reasons than 'honor,' you will not be able to stop this by force.
|
Apples and oranges. The main issue is that with child beatings, they often go on undetected by outsiders for long periods of time, if they're ever caught at all. If they are found out, the penalties are typically pretty severe. The reason that force won't curb this behavior is that it's not operating under a belief set, it's just an asshole who thinks the only way to keep the kids in line is by beating them. I agree that these cannot be stopped by force, as they are individually motivated acts. The acts of violence we're talking about in this thread are motivated by a shared set of beliefs among some group of people.
And "honor" is hardly a banal reason. "Honor" is always part of a belief structure, and people will do just about anything, including kill or give their lives, to uphold or enforce their beliefs.
footnote: when I say "belief structure", I don't mean that it's part of the actual religion they practice, but part of some offshoot belief structure that some have subscribed to, which is not in keeping with the actual religion they claim to represent.