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roachboy · 06-19-2007, 02:21 PM

i cant imagine caring what conservatives think of michael moore.
it seems par for the course that when confronted with problematic information in the context of a film he made, the response is "moore is a blowhard" or some other such. not able to mount a coherent critique of the positions outlined, or anything remotely like a solution to the problems he raises--unwilling to even acknowledge there is a problem (except to say that moore "trivializes" it by being the person who made sicko)--all that remains is ad hominem.

well, moore is not my favorite documentary film-maker--he is not even on the list of the top 10 or 15 i just drew up in my head as i sit here---but he is pretty good at presenting complex problems in a well-researched way to a popular audience across a medium that folk generally view as entertainment. like any documentary film-maker, this presentation comes in the form of arguments, and the arguments are clear--whether you agree with them or not, they ARE clear. there are often problems or holes with the arguments, and personally i sometimes wish that someone else would make these films--but the fact is that moore does what he does and it is good that he does it BECAUSE like the films or not, from whatever political perspective, they generate debates and they also provide a coherent starting point for those debate. this is very different from conservative opinion management tactics, which substitute superficial and crude sloganeering for analysis, which when analysis does happen uses indefensable categories in crude ways to generate conclusions that are of a piece with the political starting point of a piece and which are NOT about fostering the messy process of debate across all positions, but only debate with those who are Other.
and even that's not debate.
it is slogan rehearsal.
you know, shit like "michael moore is a blowhard"...

so powerclown: if you dont like moore, make different, better films.
go for it.
i am sure its easy--if you think michael moore is such a fool, then you must also think that what he does is easy, and so prove how easy it is and do some films yourself.
do it and show the results.
then we'll see what is actually up, yes?

it's like walking around a contemporary art gallery with someone who looks around and says: "well that's stupid: i could have done that"
to which the only response is "why didnt you?"

06-19-2007, 02:21 PM	#40 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i cant imagine caring what conservatives think of michael moore. it seems par for the course that when confronted with problematic information in the context of a film he made, the response is "moore is a blowhard" or some other such. not able to mount a coherent critique of the positions outlined, or anything remotely like a solution to the problems he raises--unwilling to even acknowledge there is a problem (except to say that moore "trivializes" it by being the person who made sicko)--all that remains is ad hominem. well, moore is not my favorite documentary film-maker--he is not even on the list of the top 10 or 15 i just drew up in my head as i sit here---but he is pretty good at presenting complex problems in a well-researched way to a popular audience across a medium that folk generally view as entertainment. like any documentary film-maker, this presentation comes in the form of arguments, and the arguments are clear--whether you agree with them or not, they ARE clear. there are often problems or holes with the arguments, and personally i sometimes wish that someone else would make these films--but the fact is that moore does what he does and it is good that he does it BECAUSE like the films or not, from whatever political perspective, they generate debates and they also provide a coherent starting point for those debate. this is very different from conservative opinion management tactics, which substitute superficial and crude sloganeering for analysis, which when analysis does happen uses indefensable categories in crude ways to generate conclusions that are of a piece with the political starting point of a piece and which are NOT about fostering the messy process of debate across all positions, but only debate with those who are Other. and even that's not debate. it is slogan rehearsal. you know, shit like "michael moore is a blowhard"... so powerclown: if you dont like moore, make different, better films. go for it. i am sure its easy--if you think michael moore is such a fool, then you must also think that what he does is easy, and so prove how easy it is and do some films yourself. do it and show the results. then we'll see what is actually up, yes? it's like walking around a contemporary art gallery with someone who looks around and says: "well that's stupid: i could have done that" to which the only response is "why didnt you?" __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-19-2007 at 02:26 PM..