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Originally Posted by Gilda
Estrogen in water is at such a low concentration that it's going to have no effect on testosterone levels. Hormone production in the body does work on a negative feedback loop, and ingestion of massive amounts of estrogen will significantly reduce the production of lutenizing hormone, which intern will reduce the production of gonadotrophin releasing hormone, which in males will reduce the amount of testosterone produced. This would take massive amounts of estrogen, enough to make the person ingesting it physically ill, perhaps as much as 12-16mg of estradiol a day, or double what a transsexual takes to induce female secondary sexual characteristics. The amount of estrogen in water is also a trace amount of what the average male already poduces naturally through chemical conversion of testosterone. It can't be having the effect indicated because a man's body already produces more estrogen by several orders of magnitude than is being ingested.
It likewise would make little sense to assume that girls' puberty is affected. If the amount of estrogen were enough to produce an early puberty, we'd likely be seeing a much larger percentage of boys at about the same age displaying partial development of female sexual secondary characteristics. No such increase has been evident.
timothy4testes: Not all hormone treatments are bad. There's really no evidence that animals treated harm humans, and humans often benefit greatly from the treatment.
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Gilda while normally I would not choose an argument with you I have taken several courses (Human Biology, Human Development, Embryology, Biochemistry, Organic Chemistry & Endocrinology) which touched on this subject (some at some great length) for a BS in Microbiology, and every single textbook, journal article and model the professors put forth contradicted what you are saying here.
Nearly everyone was in consensus, except for two scientists that were on the board of a major chemical manufacturer that was pumping this shit into the water, that the amount of hormones we are putting in the water from birth control, animal treatment, and the huge number of compounds that act as estrogen once in the body are severely affecting male sperm count, and causing rises in breast cancer as well. There were even two researchers in Britain who were wondering if the estrogen compounds were affecting the proportion of gay men, whose brain structure was more like that of a woman, and brain structure is determined in the womb and cannot be changed. Thus sexual orientation is biological. Anyway, they had been following this trend since the 70's, and it is a fact that in many areas where there is normal wastewater exposure, fish and reptiles have been exhibiting severe sexual side effects, e.g. no penis for the males, or males turning into females due to the high levels of estrogen and estrogen-like compounds in the water. Two years ago I took an exam which had us draw out the entire pathway of sex steroid production and conversion, and explain in elaborate, graphic detail why progesterone-like compounds were fucking up sperm counts and creating micropenii. I would like to be a good poster and ferret out sources for this, or at least elaborate more thoroughly, but I'm afraid I don't have the time right now.
I'm baffled that you have information that told you otherwise. But faced with the decision that everything I've learned in the past 3 years is wrong or you might be mistaken, I'm forced to conclude that perhaps you may be mistaken. So there it is.
In addition, and this is not verified, but I am pretty sure I remember hearing that most people vastly overestimate how much testosterone they need. One guy induced puberty in his two toddlers just from the contact they got from his hands from his earlier daily self-treatment of testosterone cream.
It seems you've been fed a lot of information from MD's and companies, and because they have very different goals from environmentalists (who I admittedly despise, because they are self-righteous prigs) and chemists, it appears to me that you were innocently misled. Antibiotics and steroids in our meat is incredibly harmful in the long run because the sex hormone pathways in nearly all of the bigger animals are identical. (Antibiotics are bad because of this little thing called evolution, but that's for another day). However few people are interested in the long run.
The human body has an absolute limit for how much sex hormone it is willing to suffer through, and high estrogen is a very bad thing, as anyone who was on a high dose of birth control can attest. High levels can cause incredible amounts of cellular stress and vastly increase risks of cancer and disrupting the reproductive pathway. While it might be a good solution for sex change/ psychological perspective, it's incredibly stupid, wasteful, and dangerous from a biological point of view.
Anyone who's studied embryonic development can attest that very small levels of hormones or hell, even chemicals in general can lead to massive differences in the fetus later on. And that's really what this is concerning, not full grown men and women, because you can only see the difference in vast numbers such as rising breast cancer rates, and few real 'uh oh' scenarios, but what happens to babies bathed in these steroids that are present during embryonic development later on when they're grown up. That is a well documented and researched phenomenon and the results are universally very negative.