Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post

host · 06-04-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

Nice Host, proclaim that those who view Terrorism as a threat are insecure about their masculinity? Nice veiled insult........

Seaver.....my post showed evidence of a "noise machine" designed to get the attention and support of the maximum number of citizens, anyway that it can.
The goal is world domination......Bush was out with his party's homophobia component, again yesterday....isn't the fear du jour what the underlying message in his drive to pass a constitutional amendment to "protect marriage and families" is all about? My point Seaver is that this ruling party's exploiting of homophobia falls nicely in with the rest of their MESSAGE of FEAR, (it's about mass manipulation of emotion to effect control). If the public
stops emoting, it might start thinking that the message is illogical:

Quote:

<a href="http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/14735677.htm">Last week Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, told Fox News Channel that he was bringing up the ban because “marriage is under attack.”</a>

Seaver, do these seem like sound decisions of a "terror fightin' gub-a mint?":

Quote:

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories...sdate=6/4/2006
........An analysis by the Department of Homeland Security says New York has just four major financial assets that are at risk, and, get this, no national monuments or icons...........

.....All of New York is a casualty of an attempt by an inept Cabinet-level agency to send money to places where it isn't as urgently needed. Buffalo, right there on the Canadian border, with one of the busiest crossings in the country, is about to lose almost half of the $7.2 million it received last year.

But is it any safer than it was a year ago? It's an especially valid question, since the Department of Homeland Security also concedes that the New York City region, at least, isn't any less at risk.

Statewide, there will be a 20 percent decrease in anti-terrorism funding. That means, at $183.7 million, New York will receive $2.22 a person, down from $2.78. Wyoming, by comparison, gets $14.83 per person.

Look, too, where the increases in funding are directed. The Newark-Jersey City area, is getting $34 million, 44 percent more than last year. That makes sense, but mainly because of its ports and its proximity to New York City. Forty percent increases are in store as well, though, for Louisville, Omaha, and Charlotte, N.C.

Does Mr. Chertoff know something about the threat of terrorism in those cities that he's not telling us?.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

This is just further proof of how the Terrorism threat is not something made up........

Now....I suspect....we're pulling into the "stage" described in the following quote box....some of us are....anyway....and some of us are still back in the Dec. 25, 2003, Tappahannock, VA, elevated terror color code stage....

Quote:

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/0...ial-reckoning/
Not to beat a haunted horse, but Ghostman’s perspective on the Godsmack interview is interesting if placed in historical perspective.

Step 3 in progression to outright revolution is granting or withholding support of a regime. The foremost expression of that development is that the grantors and withholders start duking it out publicly. The withholders start to shame their fellows who are complicit in supporting the regime and make it clear that they will be publicly humiliated, followed by progressively worse fates.

Noam Chomsky addressed West Point on April 21st. Steven Colbert openly mocked the preznit the next weekend. This interview, small case in point. This is the humiliation phase. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve, and remember thy oaths.

Quote:

http://www.arthurmag.com/magpie/?p=1244
05/06/2006
TALKING TO GODSMACK (WHOSE ALBUM IS NO. 1 ON THE CHARTS) ABOUT WHAT THEY USE THEIR MUSIC FOR.

Godsmack are a millionaire hard rock band who have sold millions of records in the last 8 years. Their fourth album, “IV,” was released on April 25. It sold 211,000 copies in its first week in the USA to debut at Number One on the Billboard chart.

<a href="http://www.apolloaudio.com/lt.asp?name=AA32">LISTEN TO THE INTERVIEW.</a>
(Initial audio digitizing courtesy Bobby Tamkin!)

JAY BABCOCK of Arthur Magazine: Alright let me get the tape rolling here. How you doing?

SULLY ERNA of Godsmack: I’m good!

JAY: How was the Jimmy Kimmel show on Friday? You were outside playing, right?

SULLY: Yeah it’s always cool to do that because it’s so set up for musicians, you know. Big stage, live crowd. It’s not so like indoors with a camera rehearsals. It’s a lot easier.

JAY: Yeah. So you got to be back out in front of your fans.

SULLY: Yeah. It was good. It was fun.

JAY: What kind of people listen to your music, do you think?

SULLY: Ummm… I’ve seen em range as young as 8 and as old as 68. [chuckles]

JAY: Yup.

SULLY: So it’s…

JAY: Well, you’ve seen a lot more of ‘em than I have, and I’m trying to get an idea of what it feels like when you’re out there—to you, on the stage. Do you think there’s a lot of teenagers in the audience? A lot of guys in their 20s? Chicks—

SULLY: Ah you know…

JAY: Is it a dude audience?

SULLY: I would say, if I had to guess what our age group is, it’s probably between …18 and 40.

JAY: Oh yeah?

SULLY: I would have to say that’s kind of where we’re at, maybe more, majority would be 18-30? But I, we definitely, we recruited a lot of new fans off of that acoustic record—

JAY: That did it, huh?

SULLY: —an older audience. And this record seems to be drawing in a different kind of audience as well, so. You know we’re just trying to continue to expand and not have a ceiling over our heads.

JAY: Right. You guys are still having a good time making music after all these years?

SULLY: Of course. We’re musicians, that’s what we do. It may not always be great music, but we love making it! [laughs]

JAY: Cuz music has a power…?

SULLY: Mmm hmm. It’s a universal language.

JAY: So what you say with it, and what you do with it, has an effect…?

SULLY: Of course.

JAY: Right?

SULLY: [emphatically] Of course.

JAY: So I notice you guys have been really involved with promoting the military. [1]

SULLY: Well, they actually came to us, believe it or not. Somebody in the Navy loves this band, because they used ‘Awake’ for three years and then they came to us and re-upped the contract for another three years for ‘Sick of Life.’ So, I don’t know. They just feel like that music, [laughs] someone in that place thinks that the music is very motivating for recruit commercials I guess. And hey, I’m an American boy so it’s not… I’m proud of it.

JAY: You’re proud of recruiting your fans into the military?

SULLY: Well, no. [laughs, then playfully] Don’t be turning my fucking words around, you!

JAY: Well, tell me what you mean. You said your music is powerful, it’s got an effect, like you said, and you’re letting the military use it. The military, who are they recruiting? 18-to-30-year-olds, right?

SULLY: I guess… I don’t know what their recruit age is. I know it’s at least 18.

JAY: Yeah, they do down in the high schools now.

SULLY: My thing is… Listen, here’s my thing with the military. I’m not saying our government is perfect. Because I know that we make some mistakes and we do shitty things BUT, BUT. You wouldn’t have your job, and we wouldn’t have our lives, if we weren’t out there protecting this country so we could lead a free life. So there’s kind of a ying and a yang to that. Sometimes it’s not always the best choices that we make, or we stick our noses in other people’s shit, but at the same time, we protect this place enough that we’re able to like pursue careers and do what a lot of people in other countries aren’t able to do. They’re kind of picked and they’re chosen to be whatever they become… I’m, I’m, I’m proud to be an American, I’ll tell you that.

JAY: So your country, right or wrong?

SULLY: Uh, no. Not right or wrong. But I’m proud to be an American. I love my country. I’ve seen the depressions and how people live in other countries and how they’re told what to be, and they don’t have the choices that we have. I do love that about our country. So, you know… And I actually sympathize with a lot of the soliders, and the military in general, that are trained to go out and protect FOR us, and what they have to go through, it’s really kind of shitty in a sense that these young kids have to go over there and die, sometimes, for something that isn’t our fucking problem. And that kind of sucks. So what I have to do is at least support them, because they don’t have the choice that we do.

JAY: They don’t have the choice because…?

SULLY: Because they’ve decided to fight for our country.

JAY: And they decided to do that because…?

SULLY: [laughs]…

JAY: Of your song…?

SULLY: Aw, come on. It’s not like that.

JAY: Well I have a quote from you here: “We’ve always been supportive of our country and our president, whereas a lot of people I thought”—and you said this in 2003, to MTV News, you said—”a lot of people I thought lashed out pretty quickly at what we did and I thought the government did everything pretty cleanly and publicly as possible.” [2]

SULLY: Yeah…?

JAY: Well, what are you talking about?

SULLY: That was my opinion at the time. The whole war thing, and trying to keep us up to date like… If you remember, back in other wars, we didn’t have the opportunity to follow it through the media, and CNN, and the news—live updates and that kind of thing. And I thought that for the most part you know we were allowed to follow it as best we could through the media sources that were feeding us information.

JAY: [incredulous] You didn’t think the media was being controlled by the military?

SULLY: Well, it could be. I don’t know.

JAY: You didn’t look into it?

SULLY: Listen. Are you a fucking government expert?

JAY: I’m not telling people to go join the military and then not knowing what the military is doing.

SULLY: I don’t tell people to go join the military!!

JAY: You don’t think using your songs—the POWER of your music, which you were talking about—has an effect on the people that hear it when it goes with the visuals that the best P.R. people in the world use?

SULLY: Oh man, are you like one of those guys that agrees with some kid that fuckin’ tied a noose around his neck because Judas Priest lyrics told him to?

JAY: You were telling me how powerful your music was, and what age the people are that listen to it, and you must have thought, ‘Well the Navy sure thought it was useful,’ so you tell me.

SULLY: Hey, listen. The Navy thought…. It’s the same reason why wrestlers work out to the music, and extreme motorcross riders listen to the music and do what they do. It’s ENERGETIC music. It’s very ATHLETIC. People feel that they get an adrenaline rush out of it or whatever, so, it goes with whatever’s an extreme situation. But I doubt very seriously that a kid is going to join the Marines or the US Navy because he heard Godsmack as the underlying bed music in the commercial. They’re gonna go and join the Navy because they want to jump out of helicopters and fuckin’ shoot people! Or protect the country or whatever it is, and look at the cool infra-red goggles.

JAY: You said to MTV, “We’re not a very political band but we’re supportive of the U.S. military and how they approach things.” [2]

SULLY: Listen. Someone turned that around. I never said “and how they approach things.”

JAY: Okay. So that’s a misquote. Or something–

SULLY [interrupting]: Wow, what—

JAY: What about this? In 2003 you did a show that started with video footage of Apache helicopters”honing in on a desert target interspersed with the words ‘We will prevail…Stronger than them all.”

SULLY: Say that again?

JAY: I’m reading from a Boston Glove review of a show you did at the Tweeter Center.

SULLY: Yeah.

JAY: In front of 13,000 people on May 22, 2003.

SULLY: Yeah, but tell me what it said again.

JAY: Yes sir. It said “Godsmack’s ferociously high energy 90-minute set started with video footage of Apache helicopters honing in on a desert target, interspersed with the words ‘We will prevail…Stronger than them all.” [3]

SULLY: Yeah…?

JAY: So you’re using military imagery with your music at your concerts?

SULLY: First of all, it was a COMPUTER image, a computer-animated helicopter that didn’t… There was no scene of a desert in there. It was a helicopter that rose up from the screen and scanned the audience. It was an EFFECT. And then it shot out missiles that hit the stage.

JAY: Uh huh…

SULLY: Because the intro to ‘Straight Out of Line” has the sounds of like, a war thing going on.

JAY [trying to decide if Sully is dissembling or just obtuse]: Oh I see. So it’s just sort of a concept thing. [pause] Well, you’ve done a lot to help out the guys who are in the military, who are stuck there now, whether they chose to be there or they got hoodwinked into being there. For whatever reason, they’re in the military. And they’re doing their job. You guys did a show for them at Camp Pendleton–

SULLY: Yup.

JAY: —called “Rockin’ the Corps.” And so you’ve been doing a lot of benefit shows—

SULLY: [interrupting] Well, like I said, Listen you know, there’s a lot of young kids that die for our country, man, and they don’t have the choice once they’re in there.

JAY: That’s right.

SULLY: So I just feel well you know whatever we can do to say ‘thank you for protecting our country’ is what we try to do. I’m not trying to make this a big political issue.

JAY: Okay. Have you done anything to prevent people from joining the military?

SULLY: No.

JAY: To maybe educate them as to what’s in store for them?

SULLY: I don’t have enough education in the military to educate them in anything.

JAY: Would you let your music be used for anti-military recruiting advertisements?

SULLY: I don’t know, I ‘d have to see what that was about.

JAY: But you’d be open to it?

SULLY: We’re open to whatever, as long as it’s not a Maybelline commercial.

JAY: [laughs] Maybelline’s more offensive than the military…?

SULLY: No. That doesn’t quite go with what we do.

JAY: Buth the military does.

SULLY: Listen. Where are we going with this thing? Is this interview about the government—

JAY: Well, I’ve never seen such a pro-military—

SULLY: Sounds like this is a personal attack or whatever.

JAY: Well I’ve never seen such a pro-military band as you guys. [4]

SULLY: But we’re not! I think [chuckling] you’re making us out to be a little bit more. When we’re asked about something, we just answer the question. We don’t go spend 23 hours out of our day supporting the military and what they do.

JAY: Um hmm.

SULLY: We just simply, an opportunity came up, they wanted to use some music for a recruit commercial. What are we gonna say, no?

JAY: Yeah. How hard is it to say ‘no’?

SULLY: Why would we, though?!?

JAY: Because—

SULLY [interrupting]: Is it because you don’t feel the same way about the government that we do, makes you right and us wrong?

JAY: Yeah. What do you feel about the government? Tell me what—

SULLY: Aw, that’s crazy, man! That’s just an OPINION.

JAY: I can back my opinion up from here to tomorrow if you would like to talk to me all day long.

SULLY: Well obviously you’ve done a lot of research and you’ve—

JAY [interrupting]: That’s right, because—

SULLY: —got a different opinion. We don’t know that stuff that you know, so—

JAY [impatient]: Why don’t you do some research before you get involved with these sorts of things? You’re talking about young kids’ lives. You’re talking about kids—

SULLY: [yelling] Would you rather not have us be protected so they can come and overrun our country?!?

JAY: Do you know what a “fool’s errand” is?......

Could the following exposure of Rumsfeld's culpability and his "defense", help explain why the troops in the Zogby poll didn't have a clue as to why the U.S. military had invaded Iraq, in the first place?
It was Rumsfeld's turn to be "shamed":

Quote:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/storie...dMcgovern.html
Watch the clip: <a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/04.html#a8164">Here</a>

.......McGovern: Well we’re talking about lies and your allegation there was bulletproof evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie? or where you mislead?

RUMSFELD: Zar..., Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a fact.

McGovern: Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam Hussein had no rule. That's where he was.

RUMSFELD: He was also… (crosstalk) He was also in Baghdad.

McGovern: Yes, when he needed to go to the hospital.

Come on, these people aren’t idiots. They know the story.

RUMSFELD: You are... Le...,Let me, Let me give you an example it's easy for you to make a charge, Um, but why do you think that the men and women in uniform every day when they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq put on chemical weapon protective suits, because they like the, ah, style (laughter) They honestly believed that there where chemical weapons Saddam Hussein had used Chemical weapons on his own people previously, he'd used them on his neighbor the Iranians and they believed he had those weapons. We believed he had those weapons.

McGovern: That's what we call a non-secretor, it doesn't matter what the troops believe, it matters what you believe..........

The media quickly moved to "tidy up" the McGovern/Rumsfeld exchanges:

Quote:

Media Matters - NBC, CBS, Fox cropped Rumsfeld questioner's ...
On May 4, retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern confronted Secretary of Defense ... out of Kuwait and went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon protective suits? ...
http://mediamatters.org/items/200605060001 - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

Except for this "dead" search result, The Wa Po has "scrubbed it" completely:

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...EY.%20ATLANTA&
Rumsfeld Faces Barrage of Antiwar Protesters
Shannon McCaffrey, A20 (Post)
05/05/2006
Article
ATLANTA, May 4 -- Antiwar protesters repeatedly interrupted Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld during a speech Thursday, and one man...hostile questions. But the outbursts Rumsfeld confronted on Thursday seemed beyond the usual.Three protesters were escorted away by security as each interrupted Rumsfeld's speech by jumping up and shouting antiwar messages. Throughout the speech, a fourth protester...

Read Rumsfelds "answer" again.....he and the rest of TPTB, fed the troops and the American people a pile of fetid BS, and when they "swallowed" it, because of the post 9/11 "fear" presentation of Bushco propaganda, catapulted by a media apparatus, that, as the post "scrubbing" from MSM internet site of Rumsfeld's "chemical suits" answer, demonstrates....is still compliant and co-operative with TPTB, Rumsfeld had the "gall" to answer that, BECAUSE the troops, "honestly believed that there where chemical weapons", somehow, he and the rest of the "pre-emptive war cabal", were somehow vindicated!

Ray McGovern responded to Rumsfeld's pathetic "dodge" by confronting him with a truth that the MSM shrunk from displaying on their websites:
McGovern: "That's what we call a "non-sequitur", it doesn't matter what the troops believe, it matters what you believe.........."

Seaver, discussion at both of the following threads,
<a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=104979">It's Time to Teach China a Lesson</a>
<a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=104440">Ahmadinejad's Letter to Bush</a> have "ground" to a halt, and I'm presuming that it's because no one wants to talk about what I've described and advocated. I think that the "object" of TPTB is world domination, and I've accepted that they've done so much damage to the U.S., that it's the only option left to us, and only if we act ASAP. IMO, the only "terrorists" that we actually have to fear, are the ones "leading" us, and I'm resigned to what they plan to do, because my "practical side" can't see the U.S. peacefully accepting the consequences of it's decision to mortgage and consume away it's fiscal stability. IMO, we spend enough on offensive weapons to achieve domination.